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FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Discussions about football played outside Europe, or international competitions.
 

Do you think Neuer stands a chance?

Yes
25
52%
No
23
48%
 
Total votes : 48

Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby ottackon » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:47 pm

Ronaldo is the best player in the world, but not the portuguese, the real one 8)

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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby Fénix » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:50 pm

MUTU wrote:Even his #1 fan Maradona said Messi was given the World Cup Golden Ball for marketing purposes.

That was the biggest slap you can receive immediately after WC final. That's how it standed and still stands. After group stage one big nothing.

This is what Fifa Ballon d'Or is about. When it was just Ballon d'Or by France Football, things were completely different where the only stupid thing was Cannavaro and Buffon as the leading men in 2006. What the worse, if they wanted to give that because of Juventus' great season, mistake! They were kicked out from Serie A.

ottackon wrote:Ronaldo is the best player in the world, but not the portuguese, the real one 8)

Claro Ronaldo, El Fenomeno! :cheers:
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:56 pm

RedQueen wrote:I very much doubt that. I think it's far more likely that he just wasn't thinking. Why even vote in August, when the award is supposed to take into account the entire year 2014, until end of November?


That's the flaw in the system. In a way it justifies the extension given last year but even then it's obvious people will give more importance to recent events.

The fairest way to do it was to ask coaches and captains to vote every 1 or 2 months, then add the votes together at the end of the year. But even that has its problems. There will be months in which some players don't play (like Neuer right now), and it will only serve to make the biased voters' say even stronger.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby MUTU » Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:59 pm

RedQueen wrote:
MUTU wrote:You're putting words in his mouth that he didn't say. He says now he would have voted otherwise. In August, Lewandowski was a Bayern player. He knew he would be a Bayern player much before that. However, since August (or rather since the World Cup started to be fair), Neuer went up a notch or two. His save percentage this season is much higher than last season's for example. So yes, between August and November (when people should have voted) there were some good performances from Neuer for which Lewandowski felt he'd have overtaken Ronaldo. But not in August. It's not because he made friends with him or that he's now a teammate or whatever, it's because of the performances.

I very much doubt that. I think it's far more likely that he just wasn't thinking. Why even vote in August, when the award is supposed to take into account the entire year 2014, until end of November?

Then doubt that, and hate Lewandowski if you want to do that. However, don't forget that many of us supported Ribery when he said the votes were political and we also cried foul about politics working against us ahead of this year's vote. Yet, when one of our own failed to use politics to get our noses in front, we suddenly make a U-turn and start to like politics and become angry because one of our own didn't use them.

It's double standards: either you like politics and expect Bayern players to vote exclusively for their teammates, or else you dislike politics and don't expect any 'favours' from Bayern players. I'm with the latter and I stand behind Lewandowski.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby ottackon » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:03 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
RedQueen wrote:I very much doubt that. I think it's far more likely that he just wasn't thinking. Why even vote in August, when the award is supposed to take into account the entire year 2014, until end of November?


That's the flaw in the system. In a way it justifies the extension given last year but even then it's obvious people will give more importance to recent events.

The fairest way to do it was to ask coaches and captains to vote every 1 or 2 months, then add the votes together at the end of the year. But even that has its problems. There will be months in which some players don't play (like Neuer right now), and it will only serve to make the biased voters' say even stronger.

In the case this system of designation is maintained, how about anonymous votes ?
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby Dalv » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:05 pm

what a fecking joke this ballon d'or is, I don't even understand why people care that much for this prize
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby Bayernbazi » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:05 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Really I don't give a f*** about this thing which has the same value and credibility as the eurovision song contest ...


I couldn't agree more. nobody knows what criteria is used for votes and there is calculated voting. I am even confused about what it is supposed to reward ! At times it is paraded as an event to reward an individual's achievements but when it is clear that one of the two sacred cows is there for nothing (ehmmm Ronaldo and Messi) then they start pulling out his club's or national team's achievements.
Last edited by Bayernbazi on Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby RedQueen » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:09 pm

MUTU wrote:Then doubt that, and hate Lewandowski if you want to do that. However, don't forget that many of us supported Ribery when he said the votes were political and we also cried foul about politics working against us ahead of this year's vote. Yet, when one of our own failed to use politics to get our noses in front, we suddenly make a U-turn and start to like politics and become angry because one of our own didn't use them.

It's double standards: either you like politics and expect Bayern players to vote exclusively for their teammates, or else you dislike politics and don't expect any 'favours' from Bayern players. I'm with the latter and I stand behind Lewandowski.

I disagree. I can very well disapprove of the political dimension of the voting, and at the same time think it's stupid to act the "honest and unbiased hero" in a system you disapprove of but cannot change. Because, given the system the you cannot change, all you'll achieve is to hurt the chances of a teammate, by not trying to counteract the bias that exists. In my eyes, that isn't heroism, it's just stupidity.

And no, I don't "hate" Lewandowski. But I sure have lost a good deal of respect for him today.
Last edited by RedQueen on Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby JANCKER » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:12 pm

Where has been Lewy living...

Messi doesn't have to do anything, he just has to show up in the pitch to have a 4 men marking - more space for others.

All that matters are goals nowadays... tap ins, penalties, doesn't matter... but that's still nothing if your name isn't Ronaldo.

Gomez finished 2 years behind Messi in the CL with one goal less... deserved a shortlist or even a Ballon d'Or for his goals.

Don't pay too much attention to the votes this year cause after last year's scandal, they must not leave doubts this year, it had to be a convincing win.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby runaway » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:29 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
runaway wrote:Neymar, even if he doesn't have a lot of goals, is the highest here because he scores a lot of the crucial goals like the first goal or the goal to break ties. Ronaldo, by the sheer amount of his goals and he also has quite a lot of 1st goals has high value but of his 54 goals, 27 have no weights because it's already scored when the team is winning. Messi although he has scored more than Ronaldo, has 30 goals that have no weights. Costa also has a great value because despite his low goal tally, most of his goals contributed to the win percentage of his team.

As far as I'm concerned there is still a difference between scoring a goal that holds weight vs 20th place in the league and scoring a goal that holds weight in a CL final.

Yes analyzing goals has a lot of other factors. This methodology just breaks it down to what effect the player's goals on their win per game not the quality of competition. So scoring when the team is already winning like in 2-0, 3-0 has no weight or change on the team's chances of winning. For example, in my source article, RVP was the top goalscorer but he is in the bottom on the average weight of his goals meaning his goals tally can be overrated if we just look at the amount meanwhile, Bent's goal tally might be lesser but have much bigger impact on his team's results.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby RedQueen » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:31 pm

Well, it looks like Sammer and Co. had a little talk with him.

Ballon d'Or - Bayern irritiert von Lewandowski | Eurosport [source]


I take it then that I can't even be sure the apology and the alleged change of mind is genuine.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby JANCKER » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:34 pm

Stats are a bitch... if you take Ronaldo's goals out, RM would've played with 10 players.
If they say anyone could score Gomez goals, same goes for Ronaldo.
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:42 pm

JANCKER wrote:Stats are a bitch... if you take Ronaldo's goals out, RM would've played with 10 players.
If they say anyone could score Gomez goals, same goes for Ronaldo.


That's just nonsense. Ronaldo (or PENALDO if you want) does much more things than scoring hundreds of goals every season. Don't let hate blind you :wink:

In fact, what I really can't believe is that Messi finished ahead of Neuer. :shock:
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby MUTU » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:45 pm

ottackon wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
RedQueen wrote:I very much doubt that. I think it's far more likely that he just wasn't thinking. Why even vote in August, when the award is supposed to take into account the entire year 2014, until end of November?


That's the flaw in the system. In a way it justifies the extension given last year but even then it's obvious people will give more importance to recent events.

The fairest way to do it was to ask coaches and captains to vote every 1 or 2 months, then add the votes together at the end of the year. But even that has its problems. There will be months in which some players don't play (like Neuer right now), and it will only serve to make the biased voters' say even stronger.

In the case this system of designation is maintained, how about anonymous votes ?

Because FIFA is already accused of corruption with such an open system; can you imagine how it'd be if all votes were anonymous?
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Re: FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Postby MUTU » Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:48 pm

RedQueen wrote:
MUTU wrote:Then doubt that, and hate Lewandowski if you want to do that. However, don't forget that many of us supported Ribery when he said the votes were political and we also cried foul about politics working against us ahead of this year's vote. Yet, when one of our own failed to use politics to get our noses in front, we suddenly make a U-turn and start to like politics and become angry because one of our own didn't use them.

It's double standards: either you like politics and expect Bayern players to vote exclusively for their teammates, or else you dislike politics and don't expect any 'favours' from Bayern players. I'm with the latter and I stand behind Lewandowski.

I disagree. I can very well disapprove of the political dimension of the voting, and at the same time think it's stupid to act the "honest and unbiased hero" in a system you disapprove of but cannot change. Because, given the system the you cannot change, all you'll achieve is to hurt the chances of a teammate, by not trying to counteract the bias that exists. In my eyes, that isn't heroism, it's just stupidity.

And no, I don't "hate" Lewandowski. But I sure have lost a good deal of respect for him today.

When I don't agree with something, I stand by it and not join the crowd and do it just because everyone's doing it anyway. I want to set an example in my life, even if it means I have to lose something. If everyone just complains and nobody does anything about it, then the attitude that nobody likes will never go away.
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