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FIFA Ballon d'Or 2014 (Neuer vs Ronaldo & Messi)

Discussions about football played outside Europe, or international competitions.
 

Do you think Neuer stands a chance?

Yes
25
52%
No
23
48%
 
Total votes : 48

Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby prasun77 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:34 am

ramsej84 wrote:there he is good old Trap :) I started following FCB exactly during his reign at FCB

i was a kid during his time and wikipedia is too politically correct and non-judgemental....
but they marked him as a flop right?
was he good with bayern?
i know trap for only 2 things:1)the substitution 2)the rant
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:09 am

I was like 12 / 13 yo and at that time I only followed Bayern from the newspapers / teletext and the occasional live UCL ,,, but he won one BuLi one Pokal and ligapokal
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby Jorsett » Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:02 pm

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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby RedQueen » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:04 pm

Thanks for the welcome, runaway. :)

"Bundesliga" might be overdoing it a bit with their campaign. Instead of creating sympathies it might just achieve the reverse.

I'll be glad when this Ballon D'Or business is finally over. It's getting more and more absurd. The latest fad now seems to be that Courtois is turned into an instrument of their agenda. Michael Cox has written an absurd piece on ESPNFC thinly veiled suggesting that Courtois is actually the better keeper (http://www.espnfc.com/blog/espn-fc-unit ... dor-honour), and on the German Bundesliga site Canizares claims they are both at the same level. And everywhere in the social media I see Madridista turning into Courtois fans all of a sudden. I like Courtois, he's a great talent, but gimme a break, he's 22, he still has some way to go. It's sickening, as it is completely obvious that they don't care crap about the kid, they're just using him as the latest tool in their campaign. I don't even know what that is supposed to achieve; the vote has been closed for two weeks. Maybe memory fails me, but I don't remember it having been that bad last year.
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby JANCKER » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:49 pm

Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


Spoiler: show


The last one was a mistake that could've cost Atletico the title. But luckily it wasn't, thanks to Barca and RM flops.

There is no vote extension, it's clear who won.
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby runaway » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:35 pm

If I remember Cox, he's a PL fanboy writer in bleacherreport. People who doesn't want Neuer to win is passing Neuer as if he's not as special as Ronaldo and Messi. That any other top keeper is the same as him. If Casillas is still in top form, they'll push him to the limelight to go against Neuer. Alas, they don't have anyone other than Courtois to put forward against Neuer. RM benched Navas so his WC performance is nulled by it. Only Yeshin is the GK that won this Balon d'Lol. By that definition, any GK needs to revolutionize the position for them to be even be acceptable. :coffee:
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby RedQueen » Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:19 pm

I'm not sure whether Honigstein's article a few days ago has been posted yet (I didn't find it in a quick search, if it was, my apologies):

http://www.espnfc.us/blog/espn-fc-unite ... nuel-neuer

I thought that was actually quite a good one.
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby JANCKER » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:14 am

You are not allowed to say that Messi/Ronaldo don't deserve the Ballon d'Or because you'll make enemies like 200M of their followers. That's one of the reasons it's politics... The one who dares to say it, wins nothing but a bunch of haters that will haunt him for the rest of his live.

It's better to make unhappy 8M followers of NEUER than 200M others.
That's one of the reasons why Buffon and others live with it, and still vote for them, they don't want to turn the masses against them. If they weren't such cowards...

That's why we're seeing different kind of guys popping out of nowhere telling us Neuer doesn't deserve and all that kind of BS, they know they'll find 200M of supporters, that's more than 8M.

They're making so much noise, because they know it isn't fair and they're telling us that Neuer should be happy with a 3rd place. They know that they're stealing that prize from our player for the 2nd consecutive time. So they're trying to make it sound like it belongs to them and there's no injustice.

As someone said before, can't wait for this thing to end.

Spoiler: show
Aw shiiit! The Penaldo/Messi fan gang has come for me.Image
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby RedQueen » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:55 am

I liked Honigstein's article because I thought it was a good summary of what makes Neuer a special keeper, including his importance for Löw's and Guardiola's tactics, and it highlights his excellence as a shot stopper, a quality that's being neglected all to often over the sweeper keeper stuff. I didn't take it to mean that he or we should be satisfied with the 3rd place, just as a statement that winning is unlikely given the circumstances and not winning shouldn't be seen as a defeat.

BTW, is there a source that actually states that Buffon voted for Ronaldo or Messi, and didn't just say he thinks it's unlikely that a goalkeeper wins?

There's simply too much (marketing) money at stake for RM. You can tell by their reactions, like press releases because of Platini's statements, that they are afraid the upheaval might actually happen. Messi is a known quantity, even Ribery as a forward was a known quantity. As long as the number of goals scored is all that counts for a forward, they know where they stand. But Neuer is a complete dark horse as a goalkeeper. His chances are very hard to guestimate. And you can't fight a goalkeeper by scoring even more goals. No one knows how many of the voters might just be sick of it being either Messi or Ronaldo every time. Who knows what's going on in the small countries' outside Europe captains' and managers' minds. I'm not holding my breath, I don't think he'll win, but this being football, stranger things have happened. Right now our 2nd best team in the league is last in the Bundesliga table. Neuer winning the Ballon D'Or is hardly more unlikely than that.
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby JANCKER » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:22 am

RedQueen wrote:Who knows what's going on in the small countries' outside Europe captains' and managers' minds.


http://www.thehardtackle.com/2014/i-was ... tar-coach/

RedQueen wrote:BTW, is there a source that actually states that Buffon voted for Ronaldo or Messi, and didn't just say he thinks it's unlikely that a goalkeeper wins?


Ronaldo – in addition to having a splendid career and maintaining a high level of performance over a long period – has done something exceptional over the last two years, and deserves the recognition. [source]


That doesn't sound like he voted for Neuer. He sounds more like a coward.

"Ciao Manuel! You are the best goalkeeper in the world, I hope that both of us are in the Euro final." [source]
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Last edited by JANCKER on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby RedQueen » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:27 am


Well, Qatar is a special case, they have a bit more leverage over them than others :lol: Besides, if anything, it looks more like Blatter is behind Neuer this time.

Ronaldo – in addition to having a splendid career and maintaining a high level of performance over a long period – has done something exceptional over the last two years, and deserves the recognition. [source]

I've read that. Not sure what that means for his vote though, but as they will be published, we'll see.
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby runaway » Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:33 am

Indeed Honigstein's articles are always worth a read.

Whether Neuer has revolutionised goalkeeping by becoming the first fly goalie in professional football or simply continued where the likes of Edwin van der Sar left off is a point that's not worth arguing either way. It's how well he's done that matters. Neuer's pace and confidence on the ball was a prerequisite to Germany playing a risky, high line without much pace in the back four in Brazil, and Pep Guardiola's attempts to push ever more of his Bayern men into midfield would be doomed without a goalkeeper of Neuer's class and style behind them, too. He's needed as the last defender as well as an additional outlet for passes to break the opposition pressing.


He's not revolutionizing the position but it's obvious how Neuer is impacting goalkeeping. More and more keepers are becoming more than shot stoppers. GKs of the Nationalelf in all levels are almost expected to come out of their box and be confident on the ball ala Neuer.

If that's not indirectly influenced by Neuer, this could have been part of the GK's game decades ago and not done by a handful of the 'crazy' ones.

When another keeper comes out of their box, it's not Lloris' or Valdez' name that comes up and pops up on people's minds, it's Neuer.

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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:12 am

You are so right. I noticed that too. Before this Neuer trend all German GK used to use their feet to block shots (something which still do and other gks around the world don't often do)
In Malta there is a gk who plays in the 2nd tier & with the u21 internarional tm. Who does some Neuerthings too:smile:
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby RedQueen » Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:21 am

In Germany it has a lot to do with Löw and Köpke having been absolutely clear that in order to get a spot in the Nationalmannschaft, they expect a keeper to play like Neuer. There was an interview with Köpke in "Kicker" some time ago, back when they announced their "goalkeeper casting", when he was quite outspoken about that. They may also play their part in other countries. Obviously Löw is an authority as a manager after the World Cup, and at the manager's conference in Russia, when he was asked what was the most important factor for winning the World Cup, he said it was having an 11th outfield player in Neuer. He even said that in his opinion that is "the future of football". Neuer's performances alone might not have kicked off that trend, but with highly regarded managers like Löw and Guardiola explaining how they actually encourage that and it's part of their tactics, it can't be just dismissed as brainfarts of an eccentric goalkeeper. Not among the professionals at least. And it's them who are voting Ballon D'Or, not the fans (which is why I think that there is an outsider's chance that he might win).

Whether that trend is a universally good thing or not is an entirely different question, though. With all those recent attempts at being sweeper keeper, they show that it isn't that easy. We have comedy results in the Bundesliga almost every week. It's not something they can learn in a couple of weeks, I think it's even doubtful whether it can be trained at all, at least above a certain age.
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Re: Can Neuer win the Ballon d'Or ?

Postby quaazi » Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:37 pm

RedQueen wrote:There's simply too much (marketing) money at stake for RM. You can tell by their reactions, like press releases because of Platini's statements, that they are afraid the upheaval might actually happen. Messi is a known quantity, even Ribery as a forward was a known quantity. As long as the number of goals scored is all that counts for a forward, they know where they stand. But Neuer is a complete dark horse as a goalkeeper. His chances are very hard to guestimate.

Good point. Hell, if the only thing Neuer has done in regards to this award is scaring Perez, then I consider that a victory. :P
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