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Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Jorge » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:11 am

MUTU wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:Am I misremembering? I'm almost certain it happened.
You're not. Heynckes named Kroos and Thiago as the two best talents in Europe in 2011. https://www.tz.de/sport/fc-bayern/stamm ... 05138.html


It sounds like a crazy idea but I personally won't be surprised if you see them both playing side to side for a few seasons but wearing white not red. Besides Thiago's blaugrana roots there has been that thing always in the background: the close friendship of Florentino Perez with a guy named Mazinho.

I doubt that Barca will buy him back, they did not appreciate him when he was younger and injury free. RM or any other top club will factor his health history and that suppresses his transfer fee. I doubt that Bayern (if we decided to sell him already) will even talk to anyone before the World Cup because if Thiago has a good tournament his price tag can go up to those numbers that some mention 80 - 100 M, as right now he is worth $50 -$60M maximum and that's the same he will be worth if he is average this summer, as average as he has been for Spain so far or even for us in the CL.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Achilles » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:23 am

Jorge wrote:if Thiago has a good tournament his price tag can go up to those numbers that some mention 80 - 100 M, as right now he is worth $50 -$60M maximum and that's the same he will be worth if he is average this summer, as average as he has been for Spain so far or even for us in the CL.

Average? Jorge he has been world class what are you talking about? Massive contribution according to this forum :oops:
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:32 pm

#12 wrote:Erm... Aren’t Borussia Dortmund obliged to notify their shareholders about the EXACT conditions of any (transfer) business?

Why is Uli not a shareholder for BVB? :mrgreen:
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Pelin » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:38 pm

Again, Jorge and his crap posts. l wonder why he didn't say that he is under impression that he would go to Barca. #-o l missed first part of the post. he was again under impression that Thiago would go to Real. Your Real can kiss my as*. We are not a selling club, so that won't happen. #-o

Thiago was one of the best players for Bayern last season. l'm not saying that he did great vs all top sides, yet he did very good vs Dortmund, A.Madrid e.t.c. . vs PSG and Real, as a team, we failed because of wrong tactics, Dead Walking, weak team defence, not collective game e.t.c.

l don't know what you smoke, yet you had better to decrease it a bit. Just an advice.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby #12 » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:32 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
#12 wrote:Erm... Aren’t Borussia Dortmund obliged to notify their shareholders about the EXACT conditions of any (transfer) business?

Why is Uli not a shareholder for BVB? :mrgreen:


IIRC he is...
JUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPP
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby tflags » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:11 am

I don't think Jorge's post are crap but he often needs corrections. He says Barcelona didn't appreciate Thiago when he was younger and injury free. He's partially correct, up to a degree. He was a regular player under Guardiola, and not so much under Vilanova. He wasn't injury free either, not by any stretch of the word. But he's correct in the fact that they didn't play him as much as he had signed for, literally. We all know about his contract stipulations regarding playing time and about how that meant he came to Bayern for a 'discounted' amount.

So Jorge's comments are correct, partially. Again, he wasn't injury free and yes, he wasn't appreciated as much as he had like. But he DID get playing time, a lot under Guardiola.

Jorge also is of the opinion that Thiago does not shine in big games. That's just a comment which gets repeated over and over again without any real consistency. It's easy to say he didn't play well here or there as people are under the impression you cannot rate, numerically, a player's performance. I've come to notice that the team as a whole does not perform as expected in certain big games. Take the game vs PSG for example; a big game. If Thiago didn't play as we expected, why was he the best midfielder on the pitch and together with Lewandowski and Martinez (playing CB) the three best players according to whoscored?

Don't tell me, whoscored is wrong as well.

So to say that Jorge writes crappy posts is not something I agree with. I certainly don't agree with him in certain points, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have an opinion.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby tflags » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:16 am

Then there's the article regarding Thiago back to Barcelona which got distorted for some unknown reason. The article came from Mundo and the writer, who writes about the Alcántaras often, was clear to point out that Mazinho did indeed meet with Barza, but he specifically pointed out that that had nothing to do with Thiago but possibly about Rafinha.

If you add to that the amount of money they just spent for Coutinho I don't think Barza should be negotiating for any other midfielder of equal footing.

That's just my impression at least.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby tflags » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:56 am

"He is a leading player here and I am not involved in a change at all," said Salihamidzic

Quote from Sport1.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Roonzil » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:05 am




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She’s beauty, she’s grace, if u tell her she only watches football for the attractive players she’ll punch u in the face.

Total ho for Thiago :P
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:07 am

tflags wrote:"He is a leading player here and I am not involved in a change at all," said Salihamidzic

Quote from Sport1.

Either that's the truth or he's trying to push the price up. Can't read too much into it to be honest.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Jorge » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:16 pm

tflags wrote:I don't think Jorge's post are crap but he often needs corrections. He says Barcelona didn't appreciate Thiago when he was younger and injury free. He's partially correct, up to a degree. He was a regular player under Guardiola, and not so much under Vilanova. He wasn't injury free either, not by any stretch of the word. But he's correct in the fact that they didn't play him as much as he had signed for, literally. We all know about his contract stipulations regarding playing time and about how that meant he came to Bayern for a 'discounted' amount.

So Jorge's comments are correct, partially. Again, he wasn't injury free and yes, he wasn't appreciated as much as he had like. But he DID get playing time, a lot under Guardiola.

Jorge also is of the opinion that Thiago does not shine in big games. That's just a comment which gets repeated over and over again without any real consistency. It's easy to say he didn't play well here or there as people are under the impression you cannot rate, numerically, a player's performance. I've come to notice that the team as a whole does not perform as expected in certain big games. Take the game vs PSG for example; a big game. If Thiago didn't play as we expected, why was he the best midfielder on the pitch and together with Lewandowski and Martinez (playing CB) the three best players according to whoscored?

Don't tell me, whoscored is wrong as well.

So to say that Jorge writes crappy posts is not something I agree with. I certainly don't agree with him in certain points, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have an opinion.


I consider Thiago a good player, just the fact that I said that Barcelona did not appreciate him enough indicates that he had the quality to break through in probably the best team in the world in the last decade (+). When I said they did not play him when he was younger and injury free, it is exactly just that: he was in many games on the bench available and was not given the chance, so it is a tough buy to believe that they will bring him back for a large fee now: older and injury prone.

With that out of the way let's talk about why I said he has been average in big games throughout his senior career (the shine word is yours).

You go to whoscored to find data to support your point that he was one of the top 3 players in our team in one specific game that you consider big. Point taken, but it does not satisfy my criteria for Thiago being above average. Above all because I do not compare Thiago to the rest of his team mates in one specific game for a general conclusion which is what my statement is.

I compare Thiago, to Thiago himself. I am comparing Thiago to the teenage Thiago that sent a clear message to world at age 16 in the 2008 UEFA U17 Championship that Spain won, even more to the young Thiago that shone (I can use your word here though) in two successive UEFA U21 Championships: 2011 and 2013, the same Thiago that scored a hat-trick against his birth country Italy in the final. That Thiago shone above anyone else on the planet, looked like Maradona in his younger days (I was around already when Maradona at age 19 played the Youth World Cup in Japan and Thiago in 2013 was just that) After his display in that final and throughout the tournament Thiago was praised by the Spanish press as a hybrid of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi all in one (that's how Iñaki Cano described him): are we talking about the same Thiago? Based on some comments in this forum it looks like it, based on what I see on the field it does not.

Now, let's look at the fact that in certain games Thiago, playing for Bayern, put up a show out there. I can't deny that, I do not have to find numbers on whoscored: I have seen it and I have enjoyed it. But take paper and pencil and write down the 10 absolute best performances that Thiago played in the last 4 years, club or country. Now list the 10 biggest games that Bayern played in the same period as well as Spain. Now check if any coincide: It is hard to find one. That's my opinion, I could be partially right as you politely put it, or a "crap" based on the limited lexicon or vulgarity of others, but it is still my opinion until I see otherwise.
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby tflags » Thu Jan 11, 2018 1:58 pm

MUTU wrote:
tflags wrote:"He is a leading player here and I am not involved in a change at all," said Salihamidzic

Quote from Sport1.

Either that's the truth or he's trying to push the price up. Can't read too much into it to be honest.


Right.

So anyhow, it is confirmed that Mazinho's meetings with the blaugrana brass had nothing to do with Thiago. That team not only did just spend a mind boggling fortune on a player of equal footing as Thiago, they also brought in a defender on a season when the title is all but won already.

They are not looking to buy players, they are looking to sell them, it seems. Turns out Rafinha is about to make the leap to Italy, Inter looks like, on a loan deal with a purchase agreement likely. They are asking for 20 something, willing to sell for 18; according to Mundo.

Sorry MUTU, we are not selling Thiago. Bummer, I know. :mrgreen:
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby tflags » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:35 pm

Jorge wrote:You go to whoscored to find data to support your point that he was one of the top 3 players in our team in one specific game that you consider big.


Well, that's the point, I didn't. I was so lazy that I just took the last CL game because it was readily available. As a matter of fact, that was his least "best" contribution and even then he was still the best midfielder on the pitch.

Just to exemplify, the following are Thiago's ratings in other "big" games this past year alone, sorted by date:

Thiago vs Arsenal, Feb 2017. Score: Perfect 10 & MOTM. None got a nine and only Vidal and Robben got above 8. The rest received scores bellow 7.
Thiago vs Arsenal, Mar 2017. Score: 7.3. Certainly not the best but clearly above half of the team who got scores bellow 7.1.
Thiago vs Madrid, Apr 2017. Score: 7.6. Best Bayern player on the pitch, bar none.
Thiago vs Madrid, Apr 2017. Score: 7.1. Best Bayern player on the pitch together with Robben, same score. The only three (with Lahm) players from Bayern to receive scores higher than 6.

So no, I DID NOT choose a game specifically to base my point. If I wanted to, I would have done the ones above. So to further emphasize the point that Thiago does not shine in big games is simply a baseless comment you can use the data above or accept the fact that that comment gets repeated over and over again in this forum without much to go on with. :P
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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Jorge » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:49 pm

tflags wrote:
Jorge wrote:You go to whoscored to find data to support your point that he was one of the top 3 players in our team in one specific game that you consider big.


Well, that's the point, I didn't. I was so lazy that I just took the last CL game because it was readily available. As a matter of fact, that was his least "best" contribution and even then he was still the best midfielder on the pitch.

Just to exemplify, the following are Thiago's ratings in other "big" games this past year alone, sorted by date:

Thiago vs Arsenal, Feb 2017. Score: Perfect 10 & MOTM. None got a nine and only Vidal and Robben got above 8. The rest received scores bellow 7.
Thiago vs Arsenal, Mar 2017. Score: 7.3. Certainly not the best but clearly above half of the team who got scores bellow 7.1.
Thiago vs Madrid, Apr 2017. Score: 7.6. Best Bayern player on the pitch, bar none.
Thiago vs Madrid, Apr 2017. Score: 7.1. Best Bayern player on the pitch together with Robben, same score. The only three (with Lahm) players from Bayern to receive scores higher than 6.

So no, I DID NOT choose a game specifically to base my point. If I wanted to, I would have done the ones above. So to further emphasize the point that Thiago does not shine in big games is simply a baseless comment you can use the data above or accept the fact that that comment gets repeated over and over again in this forum without much to go on with. :P


I compare Thiago, to Thiago himself. I am comparing Thiago to the teenage Thiago that sent a clear message to world at age 16 in the 2008 UEFA U17 Championship that Spain won, even more to the young Thiago that shone (I can use your word here though) in two successive UEFA U21 Championships: 2011 and 2013, the same Thiago that scored a hat-trick against his birth country Italy in the final. That Thiago shone above anyone else on the planet, looked like Maradona in his younger days (I was around already when Maradona at age 19 played the Youth World Cup in Japan and Thiago in 2013 was just that) After his display in that final and throughout the tournament Thiago was praised by the Spanish press as a hybrid of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi all in one (that's how Iñaki Cano described him): are we talking about the same Thiago? Based on some comments in this forum it looks like it, based on what I see on the field it does not.

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Re: Thiago Alcântara [Thiago Alcântara do Nascimento]

Postby Jorge » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:40 am

If Thiago's mark on the field for Bayern was that big there was no need to over analyze numbers, we do not do it for Robben, Ribery, Lahm, Neuer, Bastian............

This is what I want from Thiago. Am I asking too much? No need for Whoscored, just sit back and enjoy the show:
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