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Leon Goretzka

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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:08 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:With Leon and Tolisso our midfield future, what role is Thiago going to play in the upcoming seasons?


Well

With the addition of Goretzka I would be more concerned about Tolisso's future with Bayern rather than Thiago's
What if Barca offers us 80+ mil for Thiago? Now that we have abundance of good midfielders, do we really want to keep Thiago even if there’s always a chance of him getting injured, when James has already shown he can fulfill the playmaking duty when Thiago is injured?.. Especially since he was seen as Xavi’s replacement before he came to us.

We're just going to have too many midfielders- Tolisso, Rudy, Thiago, Vidal ,Goretzka, Renato and Martinez and don't forget how well James filled out the playmaking duty.

In this situation we should sell not one, but two players. Tolisso and Rudy just came up,Leon will come, Martinez is the best defensive minded midfielder who can partner everyone else on the team, so this should be leaving the choice for the future of Renato, Vidal and not for many of you, but for me - Thiago. I like him a lot, but as i said earlier - IF Barca wants him for a huge amount of money, we should consider this seriously. With this and the money from Costa, we can bring Dybala.

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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby Roonzil » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:10 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:With Leon and Tolisso our midfield future, what role is Thiago going to play in the upcoming seasons?


Well

With the addition of Goretzka I would be more concerned about Tolisso's future with Bayern rather than Thiago's
What if Barca offers us 80+ mil for Thiago? Now that we have abundance of good midfielders, do we really want to keep Thiago even if there’s always a chance of him getting injured, when James has already shown he can fulfill the playmaking duty when Thiago is injured?.. Especially since he was seen as Xavi’s replacement before he came to us.

We're just going to have too many midfielders- Tolisso, Rudy, Thiago, Vidal ,Goretzka, Renato and Martinez and don't forget how well James filled out the playmaking duty.

In this situation we should sell not one, but two players. Tolisso and Rudy just came up,Leon will come, Martinez is the best defensive minded midfielder who can partner everyone else on the team, so this should be leaving the choice for the future of Renato, Vidal and not for many of you, but for me - Thiago. I like him a lot, but as i said earlier - IF Barca wants him for a huge amount of money, we should consider this seriously. With this and the money from Costa, we can bring Dybala.

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In your scenario we would (again) be one injury away from a team without creativity.
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:23 pm

Roonzil wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:[quote="IsiahRashad"]
With Leon and Tolisso our midfield future, what role is Thiago going to play in the upcoming seasons?


Well

With the addition of Goretzka I would be more concerned about Tolisso's future with Bayern rather than Thiago's
What if Barca offers us 80+ mil for Thiago? Now that we have abundance of good midfielders, do we really want to keep Thiago even if there’s always a chance of him getting injured, when James has already shown he can fulfill the playmaking duty when Thiago is injured?.. Especially since he was seen as Xavi’s replacement before he came to us.

We're just going to have too many midfielders- Tolisso, Rudy, Thiago, Vidal ,Goretzka, Renato and Martinez and don't forget how well James filled out the playmaking duty.

In this situation we should sell not one, but two players. Tolisso and Rudy just came up,Leon will come, Martinez is the best defensive minded midfielder who can partner everyone else on the team, so this should be leaving the choice for the future of Renato, Vidal and not for many of you, but for me - Thiago. I like him a lot, but as i said earlier - IF Barca wants him for a huge amount of money, we should consider this seriously. With this and the money from Costa, we can bring Dybala.

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In your scenario we would (again) be one injury away from a team without creativity.[/quote]Probably I'm overhyping Leon's creativity then. James should be able to stay fit for the most of the time, but we can never know.

We're already played too much time without Thiago since his transfer,and we managed to get overall good results and given the fact his injury history and the need of Barca for a new playmaker, with the right offer, our board should sit down and discuss that seriously.

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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby Achilles » Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:39 pm

James can't play deep like Thiago does, he can be creative and more an assist-man but only as a No.10, more advanced role.
Thiago is better at pressing and as a deep lying playmaker. James is more sharp,better shooter,better FK taker and doesn't hold the ball too much, one touch and play, Thiago has different mindset but he can cover the No.10 position pretty well with different attributes. I want them both in our team AND Goretzka, it's a perfect trio. Martinez will take the DM-destroyer role along with Rudy(if Arturo leaves otherwise Javi-Arturo rotate at #6)

Goretzka - Tolisso are similar, Leon as a starter, Corentin as a back up, great competition there. There is room for a healthy rotation if Muller stays RW and occasionally as SS we can cope with everything, it's a flexible squad. Great midfield. Now that we got our back up striker and hopefully Ulreich stays the team is ready granted a great offensive signing to replace Robben's flame.
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby lauen » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:14 pm

Haha i really dont understand how the **** u even can say that we sell thiago?

Yes he is injured alot but when he is in form i see him as the top3 in the world HANDSDOWN...

If u dont se how we struggle without him like find the small passes in the smallest area then u are blind.

No one not even goretzka does the passes thiago does..
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 4:47 pm

Achilles wrote:James can't play deep like Thiago does, he can be creative and more an assist-man but only as a No.10, more advanced role.
Thiago is better at pressing and as a deep lying playmaker. James is more sharp,better shooter,better FK taker and doesn't hold the ball too much, one touch and play, Thiago has different mindset but he can cover the No.10 position pretty well with different attributes. I want them both in our team AND Goretzka, it's a perfect trio. Martinez will take the DM-destroyer role along with Rudy(if Arturo leaves otherwise Javi-Arturo rotate at #6)

Goretzka - Tolisso are similar, Leon as a starter, Corentin as a back up, great competition there. There is room for a healthy rotation if Muller stays RW and occasionally as SS we can cope with everything, it's a flexible squad. Great midfield. Now that we got our back up striker and hopefully Ulreich stays the team is ready granted a great offensive signing to replace Robben's flame.
Wayyyy too many players in midfield. Let's assume a 4231 with Müller at RW and James 10; we have two spots for MF and this is the pecking order;

DM: Javi, Vidal, Goretzka?, Rudy
CM: Thiago, Vidal, Goretzka, Tolisso, Renato

Tolisso as a 4th option? Even if we sell Vidal and Renato, Tolisso is 3rd option. Too many midfielders...

PD: Thiago is a not a playmaker. He is a Kroos, not a James!!!! And we are missing him currently.

If we move to a 433, where would James play? On the wing? I guess it would be an acceptable compromise, but still...

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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:34 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:Some cold water :

Christian Heidel to Sky: "Jörg Neubauer [Goretzka's agent] has yesterday confirmed to me that there is no decision so far"

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Oh.... that is ###### what an anti climax!
To add more anti climax to this evening.... knowing that all festivities are over ...

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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby Achilles » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:35 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Wayyyy too many players in midfield. Let's assume a 4231 with Müller at RW and James 10; we have two spots for MF and this is the pecking order;
DM: Javi, Vidal, Goretzka?, Rudy
CM: Thiago, Vidal, Goretzka, Tolisso, Renato
Tolisso as a 4th option? Even if we sell Vidal and Renato, Tolisso is 3rd option. Too many midfielders...
PD: Thiago is a not a playmaker. He is a Kroos, not a James!!!! And we are missing him currently.
If we move to a 433, where would James play? On the wing? I guess it would be an acceptable compromise, but still...
James-Lewy-Müller
Thiago-Javi-Vidal
Alaba-Hummels-Boa-Kimmich
Neuer

I prefer having a headache because of a stacked midfield rather than finding a patch with defenders because of injuries.
A playmaker is a player that somehow dictates the game, sets the tempo not the one that assists or going vertical, Thiago is more than capable doing that with his vision and technique just like Kroos who differs style-wise. I don't know why you put Goretzka into the DM position, have you seen him play? He is a natural CM and more likely to play an advanced role rather than a defensive one. Currently only Javi-Vidal-Rudy are our DMs. While two of them(Vidal-Rudy) can play higher on the pitch and score or pass pretty well. With Goretzka coming I would exclude Renato personally either goes on loan again or transfer. Why 4-3-3 and not 4-1-4-1 for example or any other formation. I wouldn't bet that Thiago,James or Vidal will be indispensable members and starters for more than 3 games in a row, there will be a heavy rotation. We can manage I think.


I don't see much of a problem, we're ending up with Rudy & Renato to choose who will be roaming and even that might not be a problem if we take into account the rumors about Vidal's sale.
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:46 pm

Guys, keep in mind we have no idea whether the new coach will keep Javi in midfield.
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:49 pm

Achilles wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Wayyyy too many players in midfield. Let's assume a 4231 with Müller at RW and James 10; we have two spots for MF and this is the pecking order;
DM: Javi, Vidal, Goretzka?, Rudy
CM: Thiago, Vidal, Goretzka, Tolisso, Renato
Tolisso as a 4th option? Even if we sell Vidal and Renato, Tolisso is 3rd option. Too many midfielders...
PD: Thiago is a not a playmaker. He is a Kroos, not a James!!!! And we are missing him currently.
If we move to a 433, where would James play? On the wing? I guess it would be an acceptable compromise, but still...
James-Lewy-Müller
Thiago-Javi-Vidal
Alaba-Hummels-Boa-Kimmich
Neuer

I prefer having a headache because of a stacked midfield rather than finding a patch with defenders because of injuries.
A playmaker is a player that somehow dictates the game, sets the tempo not the one that assists or going vertical, Thiago is more than capable doing that with his vision and technique just like Kroos who differs style-wise. I don't know why you put Goretzka into the DM position, have you seen him play? He is a natural CM and more likely to play an advanced role rather than a defensive one. Currently only Javi-Vidal-Rudy are our DMs. While two of them(Vidal-Rudy) can play higher on the pitch and score or pass pretty well. With Goretzka coming I would exclude Renato personally either goes on loan again or transfer. Why 4-3-3 and not 4-1-4-1 for example or any other formation. I wouldn't bet that Thiago,James or Vidal will be indispensable members and starters for more than 3 games in a row, there will be a heavy rotation. We can manage I think.


I don't see much of a problem, we're ending up with Rudy & Renato to choose who will be roaming and even that might not be a problem if we take into account the rumors about Vidal's sale.


So, Thiago and Vidal as backups? No. If they stay (and Thiago is pretty surely going to stay), they start.

4141 is very limited and specific formation. Usually played with a Pivot + AM. Javi is no pivot (like Alonso, Busquets or Weigl are/were). That formation doesn't suit us.

I put Goretzka *in the depth chart* for DM although he is a CM, because why not... Maybe he can partner Thiago in a 2 CM MF. Vidal isn't a DM either and it worked well (though not as well as Javi-Thiago or even Javi-Vidal+James).

That brings me to another point which I hadn't mentioned in some time. We're overstuffed with CMs: Thiago, Vidal, Tolisso, Renato, Rudy and probably Goretzka. Meanwhile we have a single DM (Javi)(Rudy too maybe, although I think he is more CMish) and a single pure creator (a single player who has strong vision in the final third)(James. Ribéry too but he is way past it)(Müller is not a proper creative player and neither are Coman, Lewy or Robben). Our squad planning still makes no sense whatsoever.

If we were going to get a Midfielder in the summer, a backup/successor DM would have been better than Goretzka (no clue who that could be) and maybe another 10 as well to backup James (Meyer, anyone?). Not YET ANOTHER CM.

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Last edited by PunkCapitalist on Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:51 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Guys, keep in mind we have no idea whether the new coach will keep Javi in midfield.
When the higher ups interview for the position, they should ask "what would be your midfield with our current squad?" and if the guy doesn't include Javi in there, we should just not hire him.

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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:57 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:Guys, keep in mind we have no idea whether the new coach will keep Javi in midfield.
When the higher ups interview for the position, they should ask "what would be your midfield with our current squad?" and if the guy doesn't include Javi in there, we should just not hire him.

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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:01 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Guys, keep in mind we have no idea whether the new coach will keep Javi in midfield.


I agree.But given the fact that his value raised for the first time in 4 years since he is playing in the midfield;he is one of the most important players in our squad (and can partner with everyone else)-for me we should give him a couple more years in the middle of the pitch while he can play on this high level.
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:18 pm

I agree with you, but unfortunately it's the coach's opinion that counts. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't he already playing at CB before he joined us? Jupp seems to be the only one convinced he can offer a lot in midfield.
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Re: Leon Goretzka

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Jan 01, 2018 8:32 pm

Javi was CM but Bielsa used him as CB with Athletic and he was succesful there


Regarding Goretzka and our midfield for next year... whenever I find myself thinking if we might be overpacked in any position I always come to the same conclusion

- We are talking about Bayern. Most of our squad is injury prone, we are definitely going to miss key players all along the season.


I see no place for Renato and either Vidal or Tolisso might have to leave as well. But apart from that we will be fine. We've just signed a hell of a player on a free transfer =D>

How much would have ManU paid for Leon Goretzka if he were playing in the PL for some random Southampton/Everton team? :lol:
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