FC Bayern Forum

Jorge · by **Jorge** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:10 am

Spending big is not a guarantee for success, spending wise is.

Some of those big spenders at one point are going to win the Champions League but some are not going to win it. In most cases those large amounts of money are not sustainable and some of those clubs are going to fail.

In our case I believe that we need to fix other problems before we even entertain the idea of entering the race to sign overpriced players. We are failing to bring and develop talent to our academy, we should not be going after the current Mbappé, we should be going after the next Mbappé, even more we should be going after 3 or 4 kids that could become one day a Mbappé.

Having a core a homegrown players is part of our tradition, like it is for Barcelona or Ajax, if we do not fix that problem you bring a couple of overpriced stars and you still fail. We could have paid €80 million for James like Madrid did, so what? He plays right now for Bayern, does he change anything? There are a handful of Bundesliga players that dwarf James at the moment and they were bought for a fraction of what Madrid paid for him. Does he look better than Naby Keita to you? Well, Leipzig paid 29M for Keita.

We need a well thought, well structured team that functions like a unit. We need a team with identity, continuity and well mixed, supported by a system that feeds our senior ranks from a rich academy and a set of scouts that identify talent before it is developed by others. After we secure that then speak to me about buying overpriced international stars.

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 9:57 am

PSG are only an injury or two away from failure...
If something happens let say to one of their forwards or CM they are done

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

Effenberg777 · by **Effenberg777** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:26 am

i dont want to imagine a injury of lewa and muller

. we are not any better than others

gumboduncan · by **gumboduncan** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 10:33 am

A lot of posters seem to have forgotten our history regarding transfers. We have never been close to the biggest spenders, yet we have been one of the most successful clubs in Europe during the last decade. Let Man City, Chelsea and PSG spend their oil money all they want. They spent big but they also spend stupid. They overpay for almost every player. Bayern has a great reputation among other clubs and experts in the transfer market. We have regularly signed quality players for free or at a very reasonable prices. Of course we've also bought players that haven't worked out for us but that's of course expected. Why should we abandon our transfer policy that has brought us so much success just because we started this season below our expectations? It's early October and we could still easily win the Bundesliga and the Pokal. Lets judge this season in May.

I'm really proud to support a club that's operated like a business. We make a profit every year and have a sustainable model. Clubs like Man City, Chelsea and PSG do not have that.

Achilles · by **Achilles** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:17 am

Effenberg777 wrote:i dont want to imagine a injury of lewa and muller . we are not any better than others

Yeah, Suarez wanted to be in our bench but we failed to agree in wages, what a shame.

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:45 am

gumboduncan wrote:A lot of posters seem to have forgotten our history regarding transfers. We have never been close to the biggest spenders, yet we have been one of the most successful clubs in Europe during the last decade. Let Man City, Chelsea and PSG spend their oil money all they want. They spent big but they also spend stupid. They overpay for almost every player. Bayern has a great reputation among other clubs and experts in the transfer market. We have regularly signed quality players for free or at a very reasonable prices. Of course we've also bought players that haven't worked out for us but that's of course expected. Why should we abandon our transfer policy that has brought us so much success just because we started this season below our expectations? It's early October and we could still easily win the Bundesliga and the Pokal. Lets judge this season in May.

I'm really proud to support a club that's operated like a business. We make a profit every year and have a sustainable model. Clubs like Man City, Chelsea and PSG do not have that.

And one day they might vanish from the scene

Sent from my HUAWEI VNS-L31 using Tapatalk

#12 · by **#12** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:23 pm

Let's hope it's them who vanish and not us...

Jorge · by **Jorge** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 2:29 pm

Achilles wrote:
Effenberg777 wrote:i dont want to imagine a injury of lewa and muller . we are not any better than others

Yeah, Suarez wanted to be in our bench but we failed to agree in wages, what a shame.

Or Alexis Sanchez. How many here wanted to break the bank for Alexis Sanchez? You want to deploy him on the left wing with Rafinha behind his back? What benefit would he provide if let's say he scores out of nowhere then Ulreich swallows two?

Our problem right now is not the $120M player that we do not sign, our problem is the $40M player that we sign, the $20M player that we sign or our overpaid aging squad, the stars and the not so much stars.

Every 3 or 4 purchases we should have a Kimmich ( and I am not talking about what he is, but all the room for growth that such player needs to have while providing already reliable service to the team), but at the moment it is happening every 10 purchases. Some of our BL competitors are doing better than us. Where are our youth rank developed players today like we had 10 years ago breaking through? Is it wise to have Bernat and Rafinha as back-ups for Alaba and Kimmich? I am sorry for them but we should be able to find two youngsters as good as them and with a mile of potential growth over their head, competing each week for a starting role, driven by the desire of becoming one day the next Lahm. This is the way it works.

It is painful to say goodbye to legends like Robben or Ribery but when the time comes, the time comes. What do we gain with keeping these two for one extra season? We should have a honorable exit strategy for this type of players but we don't.

When I read some comments about spending $180M for Mbappé I can't help but to think that it will happen only the day that Uli Hoeneß drills on his backyard and finds oil in Munich.

Ed. · by **Ed.** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:11 pm

gumboduncan wrote:A lot of posters seem to have forgotten our history regarding transfers. We have never been close to the biggest spenders, yet we have been one of the most successful clubs in Europe during the last decade. Let Man City, Chelsea and PSG spend their oil money all they want. They spent big but they also spend stupid. They overpay for almost every player. Bayern has a great reputation among other clubs and experts in the transfer market. We have regularly signed quality players for free or at a very reasonable prices. Of course we've also bought players that haven't worked out for us but that's of course expected. Why should we abandon our transfer policy that has brought us so much success just because we started this season below our expectations? It's early October and we could still easily win the Bundesliga and the Pokal. Lets judge this season in May.

I'm really proud to support a club that's operated like a business. We make a profit every year and have a sustainable model. Clubs like Man City, Chelsea and PSG do not have that.

This is exactly the flawed thinking of our board. #-o

The above may have been true 5 or even 2 years ago, not any more. The num of top level players available on average does not change from year to year. There are several clubs in the market now, so more demand and the supply of players hasn't changed. The inflated prices are simply a consequence.

We are not going to find a Robben or even pay a decent price for a Ribery like we did in the past, in today's environment.

You know, the comment you make about "oil money" and the veiled sarcasm aimed towards these noveau-riche clubs is the same kind of tone adopted by Uli and KHR and it really annoys me. There was a cabal of top European clubs which Bayern was part of and these clubs are doing whatever it takes to break up that dominance and are slowly but surely succeeding. We constantly get the same message that what these clubs are doing is not sustainable. Which begs the question btw, what period is associated with this measure of sustainability? It's surely not 5 yrs, that's gone by, 10yrs? that's going to be upon us soon. 20yrs, 50, 100? I hope Uli and KHR are lining up flunkeys to keep repeating the message when they are no longer around.

Instead of accepting the challenge and saying this is how we intend to respond, they choose to adopt a superior-than-though attitude.

I also see you've set the bar very high. Yes it'll be dramatic for this club to win another BL and Pokal.

Coman · by **Coman** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 4:26 pm

Wrong.

You don't stay at the top by spending big.

You stay at the top by spending smart.

Kimmich for €8M or Tolisso for €41M / Sanches for €35M ?

The difference is not that Bayern does not spend big. The difference is that Bayern spend badly, too much money on average player or bad players profil. Or worse : letting go a world class player because he did ask "too much money" like Kroos.

Tolisso €41M Sanches €35M Costa €30M Coman €28M while other club spend €1,5M for Weigl, €10M for Dahoud, €38M for Draxler and €42M for Sané ? That's the problem.

Having only one striker ? That's another problem.
Having only one winger under 33 years old ? That's another problem.

Problem is not money. Problem is the scouting and the board who spend in the wrong way.

With a perfect management Bayern could have this squad this season:

Neuer, Ulreich - Kimmich, Rafinha, Boateng, Hummels, Süle, Martinez, Alaba, Bernat - Thiago, Kroos, Vidal, Rudy, Dahoud - Sané, De Bruyne, Müller, Robben, Draxler - Lewandowski, Werner

We have Ribéry, Coman, James, Tolisso, Sanches and NO back-up striker instead of Sané, Draxler, De Bruyne, Kroos, Dahoud and Werner. Because of bad management. Not because of money (except De Bruyne maybe)

Effenberg777 · by **Effenberg777** » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:10 pm

Achilles wrote:
Effenberg777 wrote:i dont want to imagine a injury of lewa and muller . we are not any better than others

Yeah, Suarez wanted to be in our bench but we failed to agree in wages, what a shame.

suarez is doing some sort of surgical intervention. he match bayern profile

PunkCapitalist · by **PunkCapitalist** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:22 am

gumboduncan wrote:A lot of posters seem to have forgotten our history regarding transfers. We have never been close to the biggest spenders, yet we have been one of the most successful clubs in Europe during the last decade. Let Man City, Chelsea and PSG spend their oil money all they want. They spent big but they also spend stupid. They overpay for almost every player. Bayern has a great reputation among other clubs and experts in the transfer market. We have regularly signed quality players for free or at a very reasonable prices. Of course we've also bought players that haven't worked out for us but that's of course expected. Why should we abandon our transfer policy that has brought us so much success just because we started this season below our expectations? It's early October and we could still easily win the Bundesliga and the Pokal. Lets judge this season in May.

I'm really proud to support a club that's operated like a business. We make a profit every year and have a sustainable model. Clubs like Man City, Chelsea and PSG do not have that.

There's just one problem with your argument (which is a pretty common misconception amongst Bayern fans)... That a) the oil clubs are no longer spending stupidly (thanks to actual capable coaches) and that we're no longer spending wisely... Look at the last few years... Shitty got KDB, Sané, Sterling, Gabriel Jesus... PSG got Neymar and Mbappe... United got Mhkitaryan, Pogba, and Matic... We got Douglas Costa.

Ok, fine, we also got James, Hummels and Süle... But the point remains, we're still without a viable LW or backup striker and got two unnecessary midfielders (Renato and Tolisso) for big time prices. Whenever we've spent, we spent stupidly. Whenever the oily clubs have (over)spent they done so for worthy players.

We have no squad planning. Our transfer policy has pretty much become literally bargain hunting/opportunity buys (Lewy, Hummels, Coman, James, Rudy) and overspending on mediocre or unnecessary players (Costa, Tolisso). No regards for what the actual squad needs.

To further elaborate on my point and partially complement/answer Jorge's; there is space for some moderate spending and also opportunity buys. The problem is our moderate spending has been woefully misguided and we also should up a bit our upper spending limit. Our opportunity buys have been mostly great, sure, but that still leaves us with an incomplete squad. With this I mean; we should have gotten one of KDB, Sané or Alexis for a fee in the 35-55 region, and we SHOULDNT have gotten Costa and Tolisso for fees in the same region...

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

aterford · by **aterford** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:53 am

Spending smart is of course better than spending more, but as I've said before - the game is changing and we have to change to keep up. Part of that simply involves spending more money. Scouting is better around the world. Teams are paying more for young players. The idea of signing the "next Mbappe" before anybody else is just wishful thinking. EVERYBODY is looking for that "Next Mbappe" already. It's not like Bayern is the only club out there who is trying to find this guy and it's not like Bayern is the only one who has scouts capable of doing so (Far from it). Even if we do find that guy we're probably going to have to spend more than we're comfortable with (look at Madrid spending €50m on Vinicius Jr). Even the idea of finding another Kimmich is going to take a big stroke of luck. Sadly the days of finding these 'diamond in the rough' type players and buying them for ultra-cheap are nearly gone.
Of course you still try, but we are lying to ourselves if we think we have any chance whatsoever at competing in 3 competitions by only developing our own youth and hoping to occasionally find guys like Kimmich or "next Mbappe". If that's our transfer philosophy, we had better be happy with only BLs and Pokals.

Anyways....like I said, it's true that it's about spending smart, not spending more - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't spend more. Sometimes, spending more than we currently do IS spending smart. Look at the years since we've won the treble. Pretty much every team who has done better than us in UCL has spent more than us that year, and when we won the UCL in '13 we were the biggest spenders in the field.

gumboduncan · by **gumboduncan** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:27 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
gumboduncan wrote:A lot of posters seem to have forgotten our history regarding transfers. We have never been close to the biggest spenders, yet we have been one of the most successful clubs in Europe during the last decade. Let Man City, Chelsea and PSG spend their oil money all they want. They spent big but they also spend stupid. They overpay for almost every player. Bayern has a great reputation among other clubs and experts in the transfer market. We have regularly signed quality players for free or at a very reasonable prices. Of course we've also bought players that haven't worked out for us but that's of course expected. Why should we abandon our transfer policy that has brought us so much success just because we started this season below our expectations? It's early October and we could still easily win the Bundesliga and the Pokal. Lets judge this season in May.

I'm really proud to support a club that's operated like a business. We make a profit every year and have a sustainable model. Clubs like Man City, Chelsea and PSG do not have that.
There's just one problem with your argument (which is a pretty common misconception amongst Bayern fans)... That a) the oil clubs are no longer spending stupidly (thanks to actual capable coaches) and that we're no longer spending wisely... Look at the last few years... Shitty got KDB, Sané, Sterling, Gabriel Jesus... PSG got Neymar and Mbappe... United got Mhkitaryan, Pogba, and Matic... We got Douglas Costa.

Ok, fine, we also got James, Hummels and Süle... But the point remains, we're still without a viable LW or backup striker and got two unnecessary midfielders (Renato and Tolisso) for big time prices. Whenever we've spent, we spent stupidly. Whenever the oily clubs have (over)spent they done so for worthy players.

We have no squad planning. Our transfer policy has pretty much become literally bargain hunting/opportunity buys (Lewy, Hummels, Coman, James, Rudy) and overspending on mediocre or unnecessary players (Costa, Tolisso). No regards for what the actual squad needs.

To further elaborate on my point and partially complement/answer Jorge's; there is space for some moderate spending and also opportunity buys. The problem is our moderate spending has been woefully misguided and we also should up a bit our upper spending limit. Our opportunity buys have been mostly great, sure, but that still leaves us with an incomplete squad. With this I mean; we should have gotten one of KDB, Sané or Alexis for a fee in the 35-55 region, and we SHOULDNT have gotten Costa and Tolisso for fees in the same region...

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

Of course Bayern will have to spend more in the future. That's just the law of the game, just like wages will go up in the future. But, it's not like Byern haven't spend big. We've spent a lot on players like Hummels (35 million) and he was entering the last years on his contract. IMO that was a buy that our board just wanted regardless of his price tag. We also spent 28 million on Coman. IMO that was a good buy especially in today's market. Now he only needs to live up to his price tag (will have a chance now since Ribery is out). James as well. Reportedly we will spent around 50 million on him after his loan deal ends. That will be a good deal if he lives up to his potential. And of course Tolisso. Now I have mentioned few players that our board have bought for a lot of money, but also IMO they are all smart buys.

Regarding Kevin de Bruyne. I'm still a bit pissed that we didn't just go out and spend big on him. But, let's not forget that in 2015 we had Ribery and Robben and they were better and a bit younger back then. I know it's only two years ago but the board was never going to replace either one of them back then. And de Bruyne was not going to sign here to split the playing time with Robben or Ribery. Or splitting time with Muller since that is his new position at City.

Next summer we need to replace Robben and Ribery. We all know that. I'm sure our board will spend big since wingers tend to be expensive. Let's wait and see.

PunkCapitalist · by **PunkCapitalist** » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:40 am

gumboduncan wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
gumboduncan wrote:A lot of posters seem to have forgotten our history regarding transfers. We have never been close to the biggest spenders, yet we have been one of the most successful clubs in Europe during the last decade. Let Man City, Chelsea and PSG spend their oil money all they want. They spent big but they also spend stupid. They overpay for almost every player. Bayern has a great reputation among other clubs and experts in the transfer market. We have regularly signed quality players for free or at a very reasonable prices. Of course we've also bought players that haven't worked out for us but that's of course expected. Why should we abandon our transfer policy that has brought us so much success just because we started this season below our expectations? It's early October and we could still easily win the Bundesliga and the Pokal. Lets judge this season in May.

I'm really proud to support a club that's operated like a business. We make a profit every year and have a sustainable model. Clubs like Man City, Chelsea and PSG do not have that.
There's just one problem with your argument (which is a pretty common misconception amongst Bayern fans)... That a) the oil clubs are no longer spending stupidly (thanks to actual capable coaches) and that we're no longer spending wisely... Look at the last few years... Shitty got KDB, Sané, Sterling, Gabriel Jesus... PSG got Neymar and Mbappe... United got Mhkitaryan, Pogba, and Matic... We got Douglas Costa.

Ok, fine, we also got James, Hummels and Süle... But the point remains, we're still without a viable LW or backup striker and got two unnecessary midfielders (Renato and Tolisso) for big time prices. Whenever we've spent, we spent stupidly. Whenever the oily clubs have (over)spent they done so for worthy players.

We have no squad planning. Our transfer policy has pretty much become literally bargain hunting/opportunity buys (Lewy, Hummels, Coman, James, Rudy) and overspending on mediocre or unnecessary players (Costa, Tolisso). No regards for what the actual squad needs.

To further elaborate on my point and partially complement/answer Jorge's; there is space for some moderate spending and also opportunity buys. The problem is our moderate spending has been woefully misguided and we also should up a bit our upper spending limit. Our opportunity buys have been mostly great, sure, but that still leaves us with an incomplete squad. With this I mean; we should have gotten one of KDB, Sané or Alexis for a fee in the 35-55 region, and we SHOULDNT have gotten Costa and Tolisso for fees in the same region...

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

Of course Bayern will have to spend more in the future. That's just the law of the game, just like wages will go up in the future. But, it's not like Byern haven't spend big. We've spent a lot on players like Hummels (35 million) and he was entering the last years on his contract. IMO that was a buy that our board just wanted regardless of his price tag. We also spent 28 million on Coman. IMO that was a good buy especially in today's market. Now he only needs to live up to his price tag (will have a chance now since Ribery is out). James as well. Reportedly we will spent around 50 million on him after his loan deal ends. That will be a good deal if he lives up to his potential. And of course Tolisso. Now I have mentioned few players that our board have bought for a lot of money, but also IMO they are all smart buys.

Regarding Kevin de Bruyne. I'm still a bit pissed that we didn't just go out and spend big on him. But, let's not forget that in 2015 we had Ribery and Robben and they were better and a bit younger back then. I know it's only two years ago but the board was never going to replace either one of them back then. And de Bruyne was not going to sign here to split the playing time with Robben or Ribery. Or splitting time with Muller since that is his new position at City.

Next summer we need to replace Robben and Ribery. We all know that. I'm sure our board will spend big since wingers tend to be expensive. Let's wait and see.

To years ago Ribery was already 32-33 and clearly on the decline. If the board refused to sign someone because of him, they should be sacked immediately. It was not, though... It's because of penny pinching and thinking they could get top quality for under market prices (Costa!) and also because they failed to properly asses Götze.

As I said, some of our opportunity buys have been great on the abstract, but that does not change the fact that squad planning has been horrific. Tolisso was far far from a necessity considering our wealth in MF. Btw, Goretzka is just as unnecessary. We also got James despite not having a clue about where he would play and how to get him alongside Müller on the X11. We got Gnabry God knows why. Meanwhile we missed on all of KDB, Sané, Dembele and Alexis, which would have been perfect for what we actually NEED. Arguably Martial, Mbappe and Gabriel Jesus would have also been useful. No strategy in our buys whatsoever.

Sent from my XT1064 using Tapatalk

FC Bayern Forum

Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Re: Kylian Mbappé [Kylian Mbappé Lottin]

Who is online