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Julian Draxler

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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:42 pm

JJJ wrote:Was Manchester City's bench player Boateng world class when we signed him? It could turn out the same with Draxler. I'd say go for him - talented German who has made his mark for DFB already.

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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby FCB12Forever » Sat Nov 11, 2017 6:29 pm

Unfortunately now we have to go for someone you think that's not pure class.

Why? simple. Now we are looking for someone from 20 - 26, that is, born in 1991 to 1996. When these people grew up (assume 7 - 15 yo, that is 1998 to 2011) they watch MU, Real, Milan, Liverpool. Bayern was basically shit those days except a short period from 1999 - 2001. At my teenage years bayern was compared to Porto, Shakhtar, even Fulham. Bayern became good when they were 16 - 21, teenager years. Yes, at that age with a club already esttablished in their minds, they will NOT like Bayern, but became denial and resistant to Bayern.

We have great chance of getting great players born from 2001 to 2005, that is, was 8 - 12 yo when we won the CL.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby Manchu » Sat Nov 11, 2017 10:06 pm

JJJ wrote:Was Manchester City's bench player Boateng world class when we signed him? It could turn out the same with Draxler. I'd say go for him - talented German who has made his mark for DFB already.

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This comparison is a little faulty. Boateng was 21(and evidently quite talented) when we bought him, and Draxler would be 24. Very few players show significant improvement past this age and he's too old for next coach, even if he's Tuchel, to mold successfully. The analogue to Boateng is Sule, who is so far turning out well.

Moreover, Draxler has hardly impressed for the DFB. He shows up and plays maybe 25% of games yet remains a starter over Sane, Gotze, and Brandt because Low likes him. He did practically nothing the entire Confederations Cup while Werner and Goretzka were making waves and somehow ended up with the player of the tournament award.

Pelin wrote:as if Sane and Pulisic would win CL.

Don't forget that you were reacting to Goretzka like this some months ago. Now you say that we can't miss out on him.

Sane, Pulisic, Brandt, Draxler. More or less same level players. Sane stars in PL with playing vs the likes of Stoke, C.Palace, West Bromwich, Burnley e.t.c. Have you ever watched him vs a top side? l watched him vs Arsenal and Chealse, he did nothing. also considering Pep's spesific role for wingers and PL where he finds more space suits his game more than us.

Like l said before, noone of them is convincing. Yet, you make one player world class, one player fodder. in fact, Draxler is the best player among them now. However PSG won't sell him since they moved him to midfield and he is also Neymar and Mbappe's back up. They need him for rotation.


I agree that the persistent overrating of Sane needs to stop. He's a great talent who I would love to have at Bayern, but there are strong limits to his game. Particularly, his playmaking ability is limited and his dribbling style, although very good, isn't very incisive and is best suited for cutting inside and shooting or taking on the fullback and crossing rather than cutting through defenses. There are reasons that Guardiola always plays him as a non-inverted left winger. He would be a good Robben replacement at Bayern but never a Ribery replacement.

As for Brandt, the best clue that he's really good is how terrible Leverkusen plays without him. He's doing a lot to distribute the ball in the final third which isn't showing up on goal and assist statistics. I'm unaware of a better Ribery replacement on the market.

Finally, when you're saying that they are all at the same level, you are kind of admitting that Sane and Brandt are much more talented than Draxler because they are much younger and have a lot more room to improve.
bmguy wrote:Germany dont have great young talents like many think. They're just good, not great. I'd go with Goretzka instead of Draxler, he seems to have better talent.

That seems to be a broad claim. The German U21 team won the E21 Euro in a completely dominant performance over a Spanish team full hyped up talents in every position while most of its starting lineup was off winning the Confederations Cup over a strong Chilean team. Meanwhile, all the "ultra-talented" French players seem to be wingers like Mbappe, Coman, Martial, and Lemar-- I'm not seeing much of the basis for a coherent team without good midfielders, centerbacks, fullbacks, and keepers.

Thus, I don't find it a controversial claim to make that at some young German players, even if they aren't receiving much media attention, are among the most talented at their position. We have little Ozils, Mullers, Krooses, and Boatengs in our midst, the trouble is picking them out from the little Marins and Holtbies.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby FCB12Forever » Sun Nov 12, 2017 12:04 am

Manchu wrote:That seems to be a broad claim. The German U21 team won the E21 Euro in a completely dominant performance over a Spanish team full hyped up talents in every position while most of its starting lineup was off winning the Confederations Cup over a strong Chilean team. Meanwhile, all the "ultra-talented" French players seem to be wingers like Mbappe, Coman, Martial, and Lemar-- I'm not seeing much of the basis for a coherent team without good midfielders, centerbacks, fullbacks, and keepers.


From the moment they lifted the trophy I had expected some real hype about several players, e.g. Max Arnold, Jannik Haberer, Niklas Stark and Marc Oliver Kempf.

But nobody came to ask and everyone seems just went on to forget about them.

This is interesting.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby #12 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:20 am

Manchu wrote:
JJJ wrote:Was Manchester City's bench player Boateng world class when we signed him? It could turn out the same with Draxler. I'd say go for him - talented German who has made his mark for DFB already.

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This comparison is a little faulty. Boateng was 21(and evidently quite talented) when we bought him, and Draxler would be 24. Very few players show significant improvement past this age and he's too old for next coach, even if he's Tuchel, to mold successfully. The analogue to Boateng is Sule, who is so far turning out well.

Moreover, Draxler has hardly impressed for the DFB. He shows up and plays maybe 25% of games yet remains a starter over Sane, Gotze, and Brandt because Low likes him. He did practically nothing the entire Confederations Cup while Werner and Goretzka were making waves and somehow ended up with the player of the tournament award.

Pelin wrote:as if Sane and Pulisic would win CL.

Don't forget that you were reacting to Goretzka like this some months ago. Now you say that we can't miss out on him.

Sane, Pulisic, Brandt, Draxler. More or less same level players. Sane stars in PL with playing vs the likes of Stoke, C.Palace, West Bromwich, Burnley e.t.c. Have you ever watched him vs a top side? l watched him vs Arsenal and Chealse, he did nothing. also considering Pep's spesific role for wingers and PL where he finds more space suits his game more than us.

Like l said before, noone of them is convincing. Yet, you make one player world class, one player fodder. in fact, Draxler is the best player among them now. However PSG won't sell him since they moved him to midfield and he is also Neymar and Mbappe's back up. They need him for rotation.


I agree that the persistent overrating of Sane needs to stop. He's a great talent who I would love to have at Bayern, but there are strong limits to his game. Particularly, his playmaking ability is limited and his dribbling style, although very good, isn't very incisive and is best suited for cutting inside and shooting or taking on the fullback and crossing rather than cutting through defenses. There are reasons that Guardiola always plays him as a non-inverted left winger. He would be a good Robben replacement at Bayern but never a Ribery replacement.

As for Brandt, the best clue that he's really good is how terrible Leverkusen plays without him. He's doing a lot to distribute the ball in the final third which isn't showing up on goal and assist statistics. I'm unaware of a better Ribery replacement on the market.

Finally, when you're saying that they are all at the same level, you are kind of admitting that Sane and Brandt are much more talented than Draxler because they are much younger and have a lot more room to improve.
bmguy wrote:Germany dont have great young talents like many think. They're just good, not great. I'd go with Goretzka instead of Draxler, he seems to have better talent.

That seems to be a broad claim. The German U21 team won the E21 Euro in a completely dominant performance over a Spanish team full hyped up talents in every position while most of its starting lineup was off winning the Confederations Cup over a strong Chilean team. Meanwhile, all the "ultra-talented" French players seem to be wingers like Mbappe, Coman, Martial, and Lemar-- I'm not seeing much of the basis for a coherent team without good midfielders, centerbacks, fullbacks, and keepers.

Thus, I don't find it a controversial claim to make that at some young German players, even if they aren't receiving much media attention, are among the most talented at their position. We have little Ozils, Mullers, Krooses, and Boatengs in our midst, the trouble is picking them out from the little Marins and Holtbies.


We want him to replace Robben dude, not Ribéry...
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby Pelin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:28 am

First off, Your defence and team defence wins CL, that's something we didn't have since appointing Pep. Then, Carlo came and didn't fix Pep era's flaws. We could have eliminated Madrid with a good team defence and without walking dead though their referee support.

MGT made some big mistakes. Pep choice. signing declined walking dead with Pep's request, letting Kroos go because of not destroying salary balance, letting Pep to run mercato for 2 years e.t.c.

l think they also deserve credit if we have luxury to spend all budget on a winger next mercato despite letting Pep to ruin 2 year's mercato. Even 6 months is a long period in football. who knew a player named Mbappe 1.5 years ago?

Teams like BVB, Liverpool and City's game plan benefits wingers. same goes for space they find.Both are not possible at Bayern. l'm happy we didn't sign Sanchez since he was 29 years old and he had same flaws as Ribery for LW.

Regarding Robben, his only problem was not tracking back last season, he made difference in big games. He also track backs this season. if he deserves extention, l would be happy with it. Our problem was not him but Ribery, Walking dead and Lahm. l hope James can reach to his 2015 level.
he is doing well on the flanks.For instance, let's say Pulisic. James, Coman and him are enough for 2 positions. also Robben as back up option, with replacing by Batista Meier in 2019 as 4th choice winger. if we can't integrate our best talent to our team, l don't see any logic in investing in youth.Believe me this kid is special. l hope he can be ready for 2019, he just needs some bulking up and gain some strength.

Ribery was playing for Gala when he was 21 years old and he was like a bee who can't make honey. Robben was playing as SS next to Kezman. it's all depend on good coaching and development rate. l remember how you wanted Tolisso and when October came, you wanted us to offload Tolisso and buy Goretzka. you want them and you don't show patience to them. Give time to him. he is adjusting to a new role, new team, new culture, new league. if we sign Goretzka, believe me he will have same difficulties, since playing at Schalke and at Bayern is very different. to play in Bayern, you have to be complete player. Tolisso had problems with his style of play, his defensive aspect of the game, as well as his passing. Yet he has good coaching and he is already progressing well.

Second off,Nobody can say that they would say they would win CL in a season. since it depends on a lot of factor. such as luck, refereeing e.t.c. especially luck plays important role in it.

let's hope for the best. l'm hope they won't buy Brandt for 12 m euros and waste all money on non football related matters. l hope this time they will be quicker and smarter.

Regarding scouts, if you don't give chance to talents to develop, scouts can't do anyhing. actually you don't need to be a scout to discover the likes of Yacine Adli and Arp. Players like them thinks that staying at their clubs for their development is much better. or moving to clubs who can give chance to them.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby Pelin » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:52 am

Germany lacks media to overrate their talents.Nowadays Journalism is copy paste journalism. Just one example. Barca is playing vs Murcia in Coppa del Rey. A player named Arnaiz scored a goal vs second league team. ED made the news. Arsenal and United are fond of Arnaiz, Bayern wants him as Ribery replacement. Then, many media outles copied and pasted their article. That's the way how to overrate your talents.

italy has 3 sport newspapers, Spain has 4 sport newspapers, they care about football more than Germans do.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby Manchu » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:29 am

#12 wrote:
We want him to replace Robben dude, not Ribéry...

If I'm being perfectly honest, replacing Robben doesn't have my highest priority. Not only does he stubbornly refuse to age, we already have another world class right winger(with 10 goals in the World Cup from that position) on our team who can be now moved out-wide as needed since we recently acquired a world class center attacking midfielder.

Ribery, though, is the attacking force that has powered our team since 2007 and all our attempts to replace him with fast, dribbling wingers(Costa, Coman) who are best at providing a large quantity of crosses have been less successful than we have wished. You can thus excuse me if I prioritize the acquisition of a wide 10* over that of another fast, dribbling winger, even one as good as Sane.

*You know, despite the constant statements from certain people that a player who would be good as a 10 cannot be a good winger, someone similar to Ribery.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby tflags » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:11 pm

"I'm not fond of leaving the club in winter or summer,"

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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby MaCk0y » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:18 pm

tflags wrote:"I'm not fond of leaving the club in winter or summer,"

-JD
Eventually he will change it to: "I am very happy with PSG but in football anything can happen."
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby Bluex145 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:29 pm

tflags wrote:"I'm not fond of leaving the club in winter or summer,"

-JD

Draxler: "I am not thinking about leaving the club in winter or summer. I am in mid-season with PSG now and I am focused on the high aims we have. For me, it's currently not a relevant time to think about my future. But, of course, the Bundesliga is always interesting." A move isn't in his mind atm because it is just mid-season.
Last edited by Bluex145 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby MUTU » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:57 pm

tflags wrote:"I'm not fond of leaving the club in winter or summer,"

-JD

If Julian Draxler is JD, Joshua Kimmich has an unfortunate abbreviation.
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:59 pm

Still better than Alexis Sanchez Sanchez :P
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby #12 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 11:31 pm

What’s so bad about JK?
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Re: Julian Draxler

Postby 1911 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:53 pm

Is he in PSG’s starting XI?
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