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Cristiano Ronaldo [Cristiano Ronaldo dos Santos Aveiro]

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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby #12 » Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:17 pm

That shot again...

So I guess Lewi and Ronaldo would've scored those 7 goals from the kickoff? Because we had no shots inside the box at all...
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby ProfessorMuller » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:56 am

Obviously we need Ronaldo to mentor Renato...
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby aterford » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:01 am

#12 wrote:That shot again...

So I guess Lewi and Ronaldo would've scored those 7 goals from the kickoff? Because we had no shots inside the box at all...


No shots =/= no chances. Countless times Müller had the ball fall right to his feet in the box and was unable to get a shot off... Unless you're suggesting Müller can produce shots just as well as Lewandowski and Ronaldo, in which case I'm not sure what to tell you.

I can bemoan our performance in the first leg (and have - numerous times), but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if we'd had Ronaldo or Lewandowski as our striker instead of Müller in the first leg, things would've gone much better.
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby Hardrade » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:19 am

Why are we so seriously considering this? :D I'd rather have Asensio or Varane than him, any day of the year.
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Jun 20, 2017 1:35 am

Image

Image

1. Ronaldo is not really more efficient than Lewy... He actually takes way more shots and scores less.

2. Two surprising points for me; he marginaly creates more chances than Lewy, and is less successful at take ons. I've always thought that Lewy is a very classic 9, although good at creating chances by layoffs.

3. The chart reflects something that should be very obvious to everyone; Benzema and Surez are both much more creative CF than Lewy or Ronaldo. Benzema is actually not very productive scoring-wise. Cristiano is really a striker supported by a traditional winger (Marcelo) and a quasi-10 (Benzema), in a very fluid and assymetrical setup. It should also be noted that Benzema had a terrible last season.

4. Alexis as a CF is way more creative and vastly more dribbly than any of the others. As a winger alongside proper players, we can expect an even better output.

5. I'm surprised by Lahm's chance creation figures. I thought he had a pretty regular (badish) season. Nonetheless, my point stands; Marcelo and Carvajal created more chances than Lahm and Alaba. Also, Marcelo and Carvajal are vastly more dribbly than Lahm and Alaba, which was IMO a big problem for us this season. That being said, Marcelo and Carvajal have much better assisting stats; you can attribute this to chance conversion defficiencies (IMO, wrong given Lewy's superior conversion %) or to a higher quality of the chances themselves. The latter is my opinion. I believe our fullbacks weren't good enough past season.

I wouldn't know how to compare overall chance creation for both teams, and roles in midfield and attack are very different for both teams. Nonetheless, i believe that if we were to do so, we would find out pretty clearly that Bayern's problem in top games has been chance creation, and not chance convertion.

Müller's form (awful despite the stats) didn't help. So many poor touches and poor passes in the box.

Overall, Cristiano wouldn't fit anywhere near as well in our team. BECAUSE WE NEED CREATIVITY, NOT MORE GOALSCORING.


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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby German-American » Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:38 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:Image

Image

1. Ronaldo is not really more efficient than Lewy... He actually takes way more shots and scores less.

2. Two surprising points for me; he marginaly creates more chances than Lewy, and is less successful at take ons. I've always thought that Lewy is a very classic 9, although good at creating chances by layoffs.

3. The chart reflects something that should be very obvious to everyone; Benzema and Surez are both much more creative CF than Lewy or Ronaldo. Benzema is actually not very productive scoring-wise. Cristiano is really a striker supported by a traditional winger (Marcelo) and a quasi-10 (Benzema), in a very fluid and assymetrical setup. It should also be noted that Benzema had a terrible last season.

4. Alexis as a CF is way more creative and vastly more dribbly than any of the others. As a winger alongside proper players, we can expect an even better output.

5. I'm surprised by Lahm's chance creation figures. I thought he had a pretty regular (badish) season. Nonetheless, my point stands; Marcelo and Carvajal created more chances than Lahm and Alaba. Also, Marcelo and Carvajal are vastly more dribbly than Lahm and Alaba, which was IMO a big problem for us this season. That being said, Marcelo and Carvajal have much better assisting stats; you can attribute this to chance conversion defficiencies (IMO, wrong given Lewy's superior conversion %) or to a higher quality of the chances themselves. The latter is my opinion. I believe our fullbacks weren't good enough past season.

I wouldn't know how to compare overall chance creation for both teams, and roles in midfield and attack are very different for both teams. Nonetheless, i believe that if we were to do so, we would find out pretty clearly that Bayern's problem in top games has been chance creation, and not chance convertion.

Müller's form (awful despite the stats) didn't help. So many poor touches and poor passes in the box.

Overall, Cristiano wouldn't fit anywhere near as well in our team. BECAUSE WE NEED CREATIVITY, NOT MORE GOALSCORING.


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Ronaldo scores when it matters, regardless how many shots he takes he scores A LOT!
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby MUTU » Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:52 am

German-American wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Image

Image

1. Ronaldo is not really more efficient than Lewy... He actually takes way more shots and scores less.

2. Two surprising points for me; he marginaly creates more chances than Lewy, and is less successful at take ons. I've always thought that Lewy is a very classic 9, although good at creating chances by layoffs.

3. The chart reflects something that should be very obvious to everyone; Benzema and Surez are both much more creative CF than Lewy or Ronaldo. Benzema is actually not very productive scoring-wise. Cristiano is really a striker supported by a traditional winger (Marcelo) and a quasi-10 (Benzema), in a very fluid and assymetrical setup. It should also be noted that Benzema had a terrible last season.

4. Alexis as a CF is way more creative and vastly more dribbly than any of the others. As a winger alongside proper players, we can expect an even better output.

5. I'm surprised by Lahm's chance creation figures. I thought he had a pretty regular (badish) season. Nonetheless, my point stands; Marcelo and Carvajal created more chances than Lahm and Alaba. Also, Marcelo and Carvajal are vastly more dribbly than Lahm and Alaba, which was IMO a big problem for us this season. That being said, Marcelo and Carvajal have much better assisting stats; you can attribute this to chance conversion defficiencies (IMO, wrong given Lewy's superior conversion %) or to a higher quality of the chances themselves. The latter is my opinion. I believe our fullbacks weren't good enough past season.

I wouldn't know how to compare overall chance creation for both teams, and roles in midfield and attack are very different for both teams. Nonetheless, i believe that if we were to do so, we would find out pretty clearly that Bayern's problem in top games has been chance creation, and not chance convertion.

Müller's form (awful despite the stats) didn't help. So many poor touches and poor passes in the box.

Overall, Cristiano wouldn't fit anywhere near as well in our team. BECAUSE WE NEED CREATIVITY, NOT MORE GOALSCORING.


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Ronaldo scores when it matters, regardless how many shots he takes he scores A LOT!

This. Pretty sure that if you were to do the stats for Champions League rather than the respective domestic leagues the results would be quite different.

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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:10 am

MUTU wrote:
German-American wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Image

Image

1. Ronaldo is not really more efficient than Lewy... He actually takes way more shots and scores less.

2. Two surprising points for me; he marginaly creates more chances than Lewy, and is less successful at take ons. I've always thought that Lewy is a very classic 9, although good at creating chances by layoffs.

3. The chart reflects something that should be very obvious to everyone; Benzema and Surez are both much more creative CF than Lewy or Ronaldo. Benzema is actually not very productive scoring-wise. Cristiano is really a striker supported by a traditional winger (Marcelo) and a quasi-10 (Benzema), in a very fluid and assymetrical setup. It should also be noted that Benzema had a terrible last season.

4. Alexis as a CF is way more creative and vastly more dribbly than any of the others. As a winger alongside proper players, we can expect an even better output.

5. I'm surprised by Lahm's chance creation figures. I thought he had a pretty regular (badish) season. Nonetheless, my point stands; Marcelo and Carvajal created more chances than Lahm and Alaba. Also, Marcelo and Carvajal are vastly more dribbly than Lahm and Alaba, which was IMO a big problem for us this season. That being said, Marcelo and Carvajal have much better assisting stats; you can attribute this to chance conversion defficiencies (IMO, wrong given Lewy's superior conversion %) or to a higher quality of the chances themselves. The latter is my opinion. I believe our fullbacks weren't good enough past season.

I wouldn't know how to compare overall chance creation for both teams, and roles in midfield and attack are very different for both teams. Nonetheless, i believe that if we were to do so, we would find out pretty clearly that Bayern's problem in top games has been chance creation, and not chance convertion.

Müller's form (awful despite the stats) didn't help. So many poor touches and poor passes in the box.

Overall, Cristiano wouldn't fit anywhere near as well in our team. BECAUSE WE NEED CREATIVITY, NOT MORE GOALSCORING.


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Ronaldo scores when it matters, regardless how many shots he takes he scores A LOT!

This. Pretty sure that if you were to do the stats for Champions League rather than the respective domestic leagues the results would be quite different.

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Maybe so, but that is hardly my point. My point is that what we lack is creativity, not efficiency, and also that Cristiano wouldn't be as effective in our setup as he is in Madrid's.


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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby #12 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:26 am

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:That shot again...

So I guess Lewi and Ronaldo would've scored those 7 goals from the kickoff? Because we had no shots inside the box at all...


No shots =/= no chances. Countless times Müller had the ball fall right to his feet in the box and was unable to get a shot off... Unless you're suggesting Müller can produce shots just as well as Lewandowski and Ronaldo, in which case I'm not sure what to tell you.

I can bemoan our performance in the first leg (and have - numerous times), but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if we'd had Ronaldo or Lewandowski as our striker instead of Müller in the first leg, things would've gone much better.


Better, not much...
Thing is: Lewandowski played in the second leg and not for one minute did it feel like we could score out of play until we somehow took the lead, no one knows how and why, especially not the people on this forum claiming we were somewhat"better"... It's pure nonsense to talk about things like 7:0 when we only scored 8 in our last 4 years' exits altogether...
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby MUTU » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:50 am

Here's the same comparison within the Champions League. Notice how Lewandowski's shot accuracy goes down in the CL while Ronaldo's improves. Ronaldo also gets almost 50% more chances created in the Champions League. In fact, most stats of Lewandowski are inferior in the Champions League while most stats of Ronaldo are better in the Champions League.

Goals scored
Lewandowski 0.97 -> 0.91
Ronaldo 0.89 -> 0.90

Total shots (only stat where both strikers decreased in the CL, and the only one which is hard to say if it's better or worse... did he waste a chance or was he unlucky?)
Lewandowski 4.67 -> 4.10
Ronaldo 5.74 -> 5.47

Shot accuracy
Lewandowski 50% -> 41%
Ronaldo 48% -> 51%

Chances created
Lewandowski 0.97 -> 1.14
Ronaldo 1.06 -> 1.50

Successful take ons
Lewandowski 1.10 -> 0.68
Ronaldo 0.89 -> 1.13

Conclusion: Lewandowski is way better in the Bundesliga than he is in the Champions League. Ronaldo is way better in the Champions League than he is in La Liga.
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:59 am

#12 wrote:That shot again...

So I guess Lewi and Ronaldo would've scored those 7 goals from the kickoff? Because we had no shots inside the box at all...


Getting a bit off topic but it's worth noting these comparisons are a bit futile. The game would have been completely different if Lewa were playing as it changes their defensive plan, so we might have had different chances. Obviously if we had Ronaldo, who also happens to be their key player, this would be even more evident


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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby envagyokazapad » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:07 am

MUTU wrote:Here's the same comparison within the Champions League. Notice how Lewandowski's shot accuracy goes down in the CL while Ronaldo's improves. Ronaldo also gets almost 50% more chances created in the Champions League. In fact, most stats of Lewandowski are inferior in the Champions League while most stats of Ronaldo are better in the Champions League.

Goals scored
Lewandowski 0.97 -> 0.91
Ronaldo 0.89 -> 0.90

Total shots (only stat where both strikers decreased in the CL, and the only one which is hard to say if it's better or worse... did he waste a chance or was he unlucky?)
Lewandowski 4.67 -> 4.10
Ronaldo 5.74 -> 5.47

Shot accuracy
Lewandowski 50% -> 41%
Ronaldo 48% -> 51%

Chances created
Lewandowski 0.97 -> 1.14
Ronaldo 1.06 -> 1.50

Successful take ons
Lewandowski 1.10 -> 0.68
Ronaldo 0.89 -> 1.13

Conclusion: Lewandowski is way better in the Bundesliga than he is in the Champions League. Ronaldo is way better in the Champions League than he is in La Liga.


Comparing stats based on 700-1200 minutes isn't the same as comparing the same stats based on more than 2500 minutes of play...these numbers hardly mean anything with only 700 minutes played.

Also what's with Ronaldo playing well when it matters? Not long ago most people joked about him being the exact opposite of that...

Great player, but to think he'd guarantee us (or any team) CL titles is just plain wrong.
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby MUTU » Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:10 am

envagyokazapad wrote:Also what's with Ronaldo playing well when it matters? Not long ago most people joked about him being the exact opposite of that...

When? I've been using this for years now trying to prove Ronaldo is better than Messi since he always scores even when his team gets eliminated. Messi never scores when his team gets eliminated (i.e. when you needed him the most)
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby Effenberg777 » Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:07 am

Even my granny can score from offside... Real is a helped team, when they need it. In big games impartial referring can make the difference.
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Re: Cristiano Ronaldo

Postby Ollio » Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:25 pm

envagyokazapad wrote:Great player, but to think he'd guarantee us (or any team) CL titles is just plain wrong.


To think any player would guarantee any team CL titles is plain wrong. It's a team sport with 11 human beings on the field playing for you, and a few human referees to mix it up. But if any player could guarantee titles, it'd be Ronaldo or Messi, right?

Effenberg777 wrote:Even my granny can score from offside... Real is a helped team, when they need it. In big games impartial referring can make the difference.


That's a very biased way of thinking. Yeah, the offside goals happened and that's a fact. And they came at a very crucial time. But it happens to everyone, both ways. We've also had our share of generous amounts of stoppage time, offsides not given and penalties that should not have been. And I'm sure everyone's heard the term "Uefalona" used by Real fans. Also biased. It's passion talking, passion for your team and I am also guilty of it all the time.

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