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Thomas Müller

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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby FCB general » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:18 am

Müller is no longer an attacking midfielder. TM also capitulated and converted him into a right winger. :mrgreen:
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby IsiahRashad » Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:53 am

FCB general wrote:Müller is no longer an attacking midfielder. TM also capitulated and converted him into a right winger. :mrgreen:


Ready to start some Müller talk ?

You have to show up when it counts. And probably hurts more when you are one of the most loved players in the team. He hasn't shown up in any meaningful way since the matches against Atletico. And then i saw a comment about Müller...

.."This is why the NBA has moved to advanced analytics. They don't measure a player's production per game, but per 36 minutes and shit like that. I think football should go in that direction as well. Their performance should be measured at specific times during the season. What good are 40 goals in a season if you don't score any in beyond the quarter final stage of the CL."
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby FCB general » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:15 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:.."This is why the NBA has moved to advanced analytics. They don't measure a player's production per game, but per 36 minutes and shit like that. I think football should go in that direction as well. Their performance should be measured at specific times during the season. What good are 40 goals in a season if you don't score any in beyond the quarter final stage of the CL."

I think it's not a good comparison at all. Football can't be compared to basketball and vice versa. We could add handball in all this, too.
Football and specially handball are contact sports, basketball is far from being anything close to a contact sport. Flagrant fouls are a normal part of football since ever, especially in the past. In the handball I won't even mention it. :D

Fact is: Müller won't be able to live on a past glory and a reputation of being Bayern product. If he can't do anywhere near his job as he was doing between 2009 and 2016, then Müller is ready to become a new Alexander Zicker or leave the club.

Bayern and Germany need the best out there and we have recently seen what happened to some folks when you run around the pitch doing absolutely nothing except being invisible and useless.

Nobody can take away Müller's past - his achievements, performance, importance, influence, goals and assists back then... that can't be revised, but all this after Ancelotti's arrival... That's not good.

If we can't give young players a chance and patience to develop themselves in the first team, become a part of it and its future, then I see no reason why anyone should be patient with Müller who's under-performed for the last 2 years by not doing his job anymore as he used to do it in the past...
He's got credit in Bayern and Germany, out of question to doubt in him, but I don't think it can last forever if a coach says everyone are the same, there are no privileged ones, all players have the same chance to fight for the first team, etc.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:47 am



Drawing by a Maltese Bayern fan featured on Müller's page
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby America USA » Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:29 am

With every passing game he looks like a shadow of the player he once was :(
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:06 am

America USA wrote:With every passing game he looks like a shadow of the player he once was :(


Not sure he looked like the “player he once was” but I don’t think that means he was poor by any means....imo one of our better players on the day
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Mavs » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:09 pm

Thought Mueller played a good game. You can tell that he's a much better player when lined up in the center. He's just not an effective winger because of his inability to beat players off the dribble.

But his passing, movement, and crosses are still excellent.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Manchu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:25 am

FCB general wrote:Müller is no longer an attacking midfielder. TM also capitulated and converted him into a right winger. :mrgreen:

That move makes much more sense then most people would acknowledge.

Here is transfermarkt's list of the 20 most valuable right wingers:
1 Kylian Mbappé 150,00 Mill. € 
2 Mohamed Salah 150,00 Mill. € 
3 Raheem Sterling 90,00 Mill. € 
4 Gareth Bale 90,00 Mill. € 
5 Ousmane Dembélé 80,00 Mill. € 
6 Riyad Mahrez 60,00 Mill. € 
7 Douglas Costa 55,00 Mill. € 
8 Thomas Müller 55,00 Mill. € 
9 Bernardo Silva 50,00 Mill. € 
10 Florian Thauvin 50,00 Mill. € 
11 Willian 50,00 Mill. € 
12 Federico Chiesa 45,00 Mill. € 
13 Malcom 45,00 Mill. € 
14 Christian Pulisic 45,00 Mill. € 
15 Bernardeschi 40,00 Mill. € 
16 Ángel Di María 40,00 Mill. € 
17 Gelson Martins 35,00 Mill. € 
18 Felipe Anderson 35,00 Mill. € 
19 Suso 35,00 Mill. € 
20 Iñaki Williams 30,00 Mill. € 

Now, if we look at how many minutes each of those players played at right wing in their domestic leagues in 2017/18, look at how many non-penalty goals and assists they had while playing right wing in those leagues, use those numbers to generate NPG+A per 90 minutes played(we are measuring productivity here), and then sort the players on that basis, we get this:
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From a domestic prospective, Thomas Muller was perhaps most productive right winger in the world last season


Obviously, this basis doesn't certain important things(cup competitions, international competitions, international play) and league quality varies, but it still suggests that Muller isn't nearly as bad a right winger as everyone thinks he is. Jupp wouldn't have played him there so often across his two tenures if he were.

Of course, it can be argued that it benefits the team more when Muller plays in the center(Lewandowski certainly seems to gain a lot when that happens), but having to plug in Muller on the RW when the team is running short on wingers is hardly a catastrophe.

aterford wrote:
America USA wrote:With every passing game he looks like a shadow of the player he once was :(


Not sure he looked like the “player he once was” but I don’t think that means he was poor by any means....imo one of our better players on the day

The facts definitely don't agree with any sort of simplistic narrative of decline:
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Although there is an interesting pattern of many more assists but fewer goals in recent seasons:
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:48 am

I agree Manchu - by saying “didn’t look like the player he once was” I don’t mean to suggest a decline but rather just that his game has changed/evolved from what it was in seasons past.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Manchu » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:59 am

aterford wrote:I agree Manchu - by saying “didn’t look like the player he once was” I don’t mean to suggest a decline but rather just that his game has changed/evolved from what it was in seasons past.

Oh, I know. I was agreeing with you.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:44 pm

Just for my own curiosity, I went and plugged in the same players' NPG+A for RW in European competition (so some aren't included as they didn't play in Europe last year).

I have to say, for being "not a right winger", I think it reflects quite favorably on Müller...

(FWIW, chart says "Total G+A" but it *is* NPG+A)

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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Hardrade » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:36 pm

Raheem Fuccing Sterling. This world is falling apart...
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby Mavs » Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:34 pm

Thomas Mueller suffers from the common phenomenon that players who aren't flashy or particularly quick, fast, or tricky with the ball are more commonly criticized.

He's effective in his own way, without it looking pretty. Players with more flash who aren't as effective will be considered "better" than Mueller because of this. So these numbers are insightful.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby MUTU » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:12 pm

aterford wrote:Just for my own curiosity, I went and plugged in the same players' NPG+A for RW in European competition (so some aren't included as they didn't play in Europe last year).

I have to say, for being "not a right winger", I think it reflects quite favorably on Müller...

(FWIW, chart says "Total G+A" but it *is* NPG+A)

Image

Thing is, stats like this and the one before don't always show the big picture. For example, I am pretty sure opponents put more emphasis and effort into marking Salah and Mbappe than they do with Mueller.
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Re: Thomas Müller

Postby aterford » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:18 pm

Perhaps not (I don't really think there's any way to quantify that, though) but does that really matter? Müller's "thing" has always been his ability to slip behind defenses, exploit spaces that others can't/don't. So perhaps he isn't marked as tightly, but isn't that always how he's thrived? And I mean....at the end of the day, I'm not sure the "how" is so relevant....if one player is getting on the scoresheet more than another, I'm not too concerned with which one is being marked with more effort but rather which one is producing more.

Anyways, here is the same criteria, except applied to CAM/SS and *all* competitions this time (the above was only league and UCL/UEL, no cups etc)

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