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Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby bastos80 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:20 pm

ramsej84 wrote:But Herr #12 had told us that he is shit.......................


Pretty sure he just said that he isn't going to be good enough to be a starter for a team that aspires to be top 3. And so far he hasn't been proven wrong.
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 30, 2019 3:39 pm

bastos80 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:But Herr #12 had told us that he is shit.......................


Pretty sure he just said that he isn't going to be good enough to be a starter for a team that aspires to be top 3. And so far he hasn't been proven wrong.


In ramsej's world I have...
Kovac OUT!!!
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby IsiahRashad » Sat Apr 06, 2019 6:32 pm

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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:34 pm

IsiahRashad wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!


Too good
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby IsiahRashad » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:38 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!


Too good
For me the best player on the pitch today - both offensively and defensively.
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby German-American » Sat Apr 06, 2019 7:45 pm

He is really putting together a fine season.
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby IsiahRashad » Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:50 pm

Gnabry in all competitions:

35 games - 12 goals, 8 assists.

Quietly having a great season. Really stepped up in 2019.
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby Manchu » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:38 am

It's amazing to watch Gnabry develop. He makes substantial improvements almost on a game by game basis. When he first arrived at this club, he wasn't much more than a couple of good legs and a strong shot. Now his decision making has improved to the point he's breaking open defenses and getting and creating many good chances every game.*

I don't know if we should give credit for this progress to Kovac or to the simple fact that Gnabry has learned something from playing with world-class players week in, week out, but the obvious contrast is with Coman's limited improvement over the last 4 years. To be fair to Coman, he has arguably advanced more this season than any other and has played many fewer of his patented crosses to nowhere, but I'm still unhappy with his development.

*Between the start of the Bundesliga season and November 30th, Gnabry averaged only 0.37 NPxG+ xA per 90. Since November 30th, he's averaged 1.17 NPxG+ xA per 90.
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby #12 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:52 am

Manchu wrote:It's amazing to watch Gnabry develop. He makes substantial improvements almost on a game by game basis. When he first arrived at this club, he wasn't much more than a couple of good legs and a strong shot. Now his decision making has improved to the point he's breaking open defenses and getting and creating many good chances every game.*

I don't know if we should give credit for this progress to Kovac or to the simple fact that Gnabry has learned something from playing with world-class players week in, week out, but the obvious contrast is with Coman's limited improvement over the last 4 years. To be fair to Coman, he has arguably advanced more this season than any other and has played many fewer of his patented crosses to nowhere, but I'm still unhappy with his development.

*Between the start of the Bundesliga season and November 30th, Gnabry averaged only 0.37 NPxG+ xA per 90. Since November 30th, he's averaged 1.17 NPxG+ xA per 90.


Well yes and no... You’re completely ignoring our bettering overall performances since exactly said November... Of course that'll have an influence on your statistics and you should factor that in... Nonetheless he performs better than expected... I stand firm by my opinion though that he’s not the kind of player you win something big with...
Kovac OUT!!!
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby Firefox1234 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:09 pm

#12 wrote:
Manchu wrote:It's amazing to watch Gnabry develop. He makes substantial improvements almost on a game by game basis. When he first arrived at this club, he wasn't much more than a couple of good legs and a strong shot. Now his decision making has improved to the point he's breaking open defenses and getting and creating many good chances every game.*

I don't know if we should give credit for this progress to Kovac or to the simple fact that Gnabry has learned something from playing with world-class players week in, week out, but the obvious contrast is with Coman's limited improvement over the last 4 years. To be fair to Coman, he has arguably advanced more this season than any other and has played many fewer of his patented crosses to nowhere, but I'm still unhappy with his development.

*Between the start of the Bundesliga season and November 30th, Gnabry averaged only 0.37 NPxG+ xA per 90. Since November 30th, he's averaged 1.17 NPxG+ xA per 90.


Well yes and no... You’re completely ignoring our bettering overall performances since exactly said November... Of course that'll have an influence on your statistics and you should factor that in... Nonetheless he performs better than expected... I stand firm by my opinion though that he’s not the kind of player you win something big with...

I know Klopp is yet to win anything yet but many would have said the same for the like of Mané, Salah, and Firmino; yet they are tearing up teams left and right.....
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Re: Serge Gnabry [Serge David Gnabry]

Postby Manchu » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:28 pm

#12 wrote:Well yes and no... You’re completely ignoring our bettering overall performances since exactly said November... Of course that'll have an influence on your statistics and you should factor that in... Nonetheless he performs better than expected... I stand firm by my opinion though that he’s not the kind of player you win something big with...

Are our players getting better because our team is getting better, or is our team getting better because our player getting better? Statisticians, aside from maybe Goalimpact, don't try to adjust player statistics in response to team strength because it is impossible to solve the "chicken and the egg problem."

In fact, there are three possibilities to explain our great improvement in team and individual play. It might be because individual players have vastly improved, because Kovac's coaching and tactics have vastly improved, or because Kovac's coaching has resulted in individual players vastly improving. You can make an arguments for all three, and it is up to you to decide which possibility you believe. I myself think that elements of all three are true, but I assume, given your opinions on Kovac, you believe that our improvements are due to individual players improving. That, in turn, would suggest that many of Gnabry's gains will prove to be permanent.

Moreover, it bears to emphasize how unusual Gnabry's numbers are. One of things that stands out about both Thomas Muller and Marco Reus is that they are just about the only non-strikers in the Bundesliga who get above 0.70 NPxG+xA per 90 season after season. Robben generally averaged about 0.65 NPxG+xA per 90 across seasons, although he buttressed that with excellent finishing. Even if Gnabry were to"only" be able to maintain an average of 0.80 NPxG+xA per 90 over the next few seasons, that would be pretty significant.

Admittedly, NPxG+xA per 90 is far from the only measure of how good a player is, and I don't even think it is the best one. However, it is useful and does correlate well with good players. Most importantly, I can say Gnabry is showing many improvements in the "little things" which don't show up in this kind of statistic. His dribbling, for example, is far improved not because his technical ability has increased but because he has a better understanding when and where he can successfully dribble. He has basically stopped taking low-probability long shots from outside the box.

Of course, this doesn't mean that Gnabry will necessarily develop to world class levels or anything like that. He still has much to improve, particularly in his play during buildup, but the signs are very encouraging. Again, the contrast with Coman, who is praised by many fans as a future world class player, our most important player, etc but who has failed to show any really substantial advancement in four years, is striking(and I do have to give Kovac credit for the improvements Coman has made this season because I've seen zero evidence that Coman is able to develop spontaneously).
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