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Robert Lewandowski

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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby #12 » Thu May 03, 2018 7:09 am

Lahmies wrote:“Robert Lewandowski: "If anybody saw that game, they'll know Bayern deserved to go through. There's a conspiracy involving Real Madrid. Nobody wants to speak about it, but everybody in football knows what it is."

[beIN]”

Damn...that’s brave. :shock:


Shane he wasn’t brave in 180 minutes...
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby MUTU » Thu May 03, 2018 7:21 am

aterford wrote:Apparently the quotes are fake.
Pity, because he would know. He was fouled 4 times inside the box over 2 legs. First by Lucas, then by Carvajal, then twice by Ramos in the second leg.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby Lahmies » Thu May 03, 2018 7:33 am

aterford wrote:Apparently the quotes are fake.


Pity. That fake quote almost earned him my respect.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby Ziklitschli » Thu May 03, 2018 8:55 am

aterford wrote:
Ziklitschli wrote:After this match I am not against selling him (for psychological reasons rather than his performance) but Ronaldo played 5 times worse and had a miss Lewandowski would be killed for, 22 years old Sule kept him in his pocket (Lewy was doubled and sometimes tripled by proven WC defenders) and noone even thinks about selling him. Also, he had dry patches in both CL and league, was accused of banging goals only vs mediocore teams and choking vs big ones, scoring mostly penalties, needing 20 shots for a goal etc, still wasn't sold, look where he is today at the age of 33.


I guess i see what you're trying to get at here, but IMO this is a really poor way to go about trying to make it....
I hate the guy (when we play him at least) but he has OWNED the UCL.
Meanwhile, if you look at Lewandowski's numbers, you'll see that his scoring/assisting averages fall off a cliff when you compare BL play to UCL play. Meanwhile, Ronaldo's numbers tend to do the opposite. He's literally been better in the UCL than the league (and TBH has played in tougher leagues his whole career) than Lewy.
The last time Ronaldo had a "dry patch" in the UCL was 2014/2015 when he dropped to a paltry 10 goals/4 assists. That's better than Lewy's best ever UCL season.

Lewy's first season in the UCL was 11/12. Here's how it's shook out since then:
11/12 - 1 goal, 2 assists
12/13 - 10 goals, 2 assists
13/14 - 6 goals, 4 assists
14/15 - 6 goals, 5 assists
15/16 - 9 goals, 1 assist
16/17 - 8 goals, 1 assist
17/18 - 5 goals, 2 assists

Ronaldo in the same span:
11/12 - 10 goals, 3 assists
12/13 - 12 goals, 1 assist
13/14 - 17 goals, 5 assists
14/15 - 10 goals, 4 assists (this was the last "dry spell")
15/16 - 16 goals, 4 assists
16/17 - 12 goals, 6 assists
17/18 - 15 goals, 3 assists

I think it's pretty clear why Madrid have not given any consideration to selling Ronaldo. Heck, I am a "Messi guy" (at least that's where I side on that 'debate') but I don't think Ronaldo and Lewy are even close to being in the same conversation.


Yeah ofc, the comparision is stretched, mainly to show how in their big game, Ron "choked" just as much as Lew.

As for stats, looking at Ronaldo 100 CL goals, apart from his heart breaking record against Bayern and 5 against Juve (which mostly came late in his career), it doesn't look like a record of such a big game player for me, especialy given the galactico team he has around and his sidekick Benz heh

9 Bayern
7 Ajax, Schalke
6 Galatasaray, Malmö
5 Roma, Shakhtar Donetsk, Juventus
4 Borussia Dortmund, Lyon, Marseille
3 CSKA Moskva, Dynamo Kyiv, København, Sporting, Wolfsburg
2 AC Milan, APOEL, Arsenal, Basel, Ludogorets Razgrad, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur, Zürich
1 Auxerre, Chelsea, Atlético Madrid, Internazionale Milano, Liverpool, Manchester City, Porto

LGBT Ron has 10/100 goals in semis, 20/100 in quarters and 17/100 in round of 16
Lew has 6/45, 4/45 and 9/45 respectively

Lew has it slightly better in semis/ round of 16 and significantly worse in quarters, both chokers?

The analysis is worthless tough, just basic numbers not telling the whole story. Just like that Ronaldo nrs not showing how hard and often he choked just to show up for one match and be hailed the big winner again. I'm not that much on a mission and not bi curious enough to look for his details but I'll try to find the article I remember reading, highlighted it quite clearly afair.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby Ziklitschli » Thu May 03, 2018 9:05 am

IsiahRashad wrote:Christian Falk at Sky: "Once a player told me: I always thought the most egoistical player I’ve ever known is Arjen Robben. But then I met Robert Lewandowski."

Image

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This is exactly what bugs me about this whole Lewy hysteria now. Yes he was bad to mediocre, maybe declined, might yet prove to be a choker, maybe should be sold etc. Some claims are ridiculous though, selfish? He is not selfish enough actually for a striker, wanders and passes too much and in big matches always looks for solutions. This Lewy discussion (in general, not this particular one from the quote) is pure emotions and outcome of superhuman expectations not met.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby sch0ll7 » Thu May 03, 2018 10:01 am

aterford wrote:Getting a "worse" striker doesn't mean the *team* gets worse as a whole. As already discussed elsewhere... "Better" does not equal "better fit". It's entirely possible to get a "worse" striker who's a better fit with the current team. Or if it frees up funds for a top winger...With the way the club plays, a world class winger and "above average" striker is better for us than an "above average" winger and world class striker.


Getting a worse striker means exactly that we are getting a worse striker. No way around it. If we wanna make our team stronger on our wings...we need to get new better wingers.
It doesnt mean we have to sell our best striker to get a new winger. We can just buy a new winger to make our team even better. Why compensate when we have money to buy a new player? That is just silly logic.

aterford wrote:Let's not fall into this appeal to the stone type fallacious reasoning. If you think it's so absurd to suggest that Wagner is "anywhere near" Lewy, why not prove it rather than essentially just saying "it's ridiculous because it's ridiculous"


I think it was obvious and everyone on this forum knew that Lewy is much better striker and that his goal scoring record is way better than Wagners.

Wagner= 379 games 98 goals 31 assists
Lewy= 493 games 314 goals 97 assists

Our board and even Wagner knows that he came here to be a backup and he is fine with that. Like I said...it is the same thing as Ulrich came here to be a backup for Neuer.

aterford wrote:Again, doesn't this speak more to the notion that a top winger is more important to us than a top striker?


Again...so you think we should sell Lewandowski just because we need a winger? I dont get this logic. Lets also sell Neuer and Alaba so we can buy Salah. It doesnt matter if we have Ulreich, Bernat and Wagner playing first XI...as long as we have a better winger.

And I agree Lewa had a bad game..just like Muller. I blame him for missing a clear cut chance and not scoring a goal. But we cant blame just him and talk about selling him when Muller, Ribery, James, Hummels etc...also missed 100% chances. James shot from 3 meters somehow managed to go over the goal. We were really bad at finishing.

You are comparing Ronaldo with Lewandowski...okay...Ronaldo is a goalscoring machine..we all know that. But we also need to know that he does nothing else and other 9 outfield players are only there to assist him. That is why Benzema, Bale, Isco etc...are nowhere near when it comes to scoring goals. Real are putting everything into Ronaldo scoring and that is why his record is the best in the world.
We at Bayern play more as a team and dont favor Lewandowski when it comes to scoring goals. We have Muller, Ribery, Robben and other attacking players that often score.
That is why we will never have a player that has an outstanding goalscoring record like Ronaldo, Messi, Salah...because we tend to get all of our attackers involved. Even our midfielders score a lot of goals. We have a different approach and that is okay. I dont care who scores goals..as long as we score.

I feel silly for defending Lewa as he is not my favorite player but I am just trying to be realistic.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu May 03, 2018 11:14 am

Lahmies wrote:“Robert Lewandowski: "If anybody saw that game, they'll know Bayern deserved to go through. There's a conspiracy involving Real Madrid. Nobody wants to speak about it, but everybody in football knows what it is."

[beIN]”

Damn...that’s brave. :shock:

Sounds like someone got a call last night that Real are no longer interested. :lol: Sorry, couldn't resist.

It's good that people other than fans are talking about this.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu May 03, 2018 11:21 am

sch0ll7 wrote:Getting a worse striker means exactly that we are getting a worse striker. No way around it. If we wanna make our team stronger on our wings...we need to get new better wingers.
It doesnt mean we have to sell our best striker to get a new winger. We can just buy a new winger to make our team even better. Why compensate when we have money to buy a new player? That is just silly logic.

Let me put it this way. Was Klose a world class striker? Probably not, and he definitely never was the best in the world. His Bayern career wasn't any good.

But would Germany pick anyone else over Klose in his peak? I would say certainly not. He delivered in those games even if he was never spectacular in club football.

It's the same thing with Lewandowski. It's almost impossible to name a better striker (at least a pure striker) yet he consistently fails to score important goals in these big CL games. Gomez, Mandzukic, and Olic scored them. I am willing to bet that if we replace Lewandowski our amount of goals scored in the Bundesliga will be much lower next season but if we have another big tie in the CL and play as well as we did in these two games vs Real, our striker will score at least one goal over two legs. And that is all we need.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu May 03, 2018 11:37 am

But wait, there was really no one better than Klose was there?
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby sch0ll7 » Thu May 03, 2018 12:29 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:It's the same thing with Lewandowski. It's almost impossible to name a better striker (at least a pure striker) yet he consistently fails to score important goals in these big CL games. Gomez, Mandzukic, and Olic scored them. I am willing to bet that if we replace Lewandowski our amount of goals scored in the Bundesliga will be much lower next season but if we have another big tie in the CL and play as well as we did in these two games vs Real, our striker will score at least one goal over two legs. And that is all we need.


my.space.button.doesnt.work.on.this.comp.so...

lewa.scored.5.goals.this.season.in.cl...Ribery.0...robben.0...muller.3...james.1...thiago..3..etc...kimmich..scored.same.amount.of.goals.as.muller..and.more.than.all.of.our.attacking.midfielders.together
while.in.2012/2013..robben.3goals..muller.8goals...ribery.1goal..schweini.2..kroos.3...mandzukic.3...gomez.2...pizarro.4.

so..you.see.the.difference...whole.team.scored.goals...while.this.season.everyone.was.off...but.you.dont.blame.muller,ribery,robben,james...you.blame.lewandowski.who.scored.5.goals...not.trying.to.say.it.is.enough...but.every.other.attacking.player.undeperformed.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu May 03, 2018 12:31 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:But wait, there was really no one better than Klose was there?

In Germany, there was definitely Gomez near the end, but Klose still ended up better. In world football there were others. I meant if Loew could pick anyone from any country, he would probably still have picked Klose.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu May 03, 2018 12:35 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:It's the same thing with Lewandowski. It's almost impossible to name a better striker (at least a pure striker) yet he consistently fails to score important goals in these big CL games. Gomez, Mandzukic, and Olic scored them. I am willing to bet that if we replace Lewandowski our amount of goals scored in the Bundesliga will be much lower next season but if we have another big tie in the CL and play as well as we did in these two games vs Real, our striker will score at least one goal over two legs. And that is all we need.


my.space.button.doesnt.work.on.this.comp.so...

lewa.scored.5.goals.this.season.in.cl...Ribery.0...robben.0...muller.3...james.1...thiago..3..etc...kimmich..scored.same.amount.of.goals.as.muller..and.more.than.all.of.our.attacking.midfielders.together
while.in.2012/2013..robben.3goals..muller.8goals...ribery.1goal..schweini.2..kroos.3...mandzukic.3...gomez.2...pizarro.4.

so..you.see.the.difference...whole.team.scored.goals...while.this.season.everyone.was.off...but.you.dont.blame.muller,ribery,robben,james...you.blame.lewandowski.who.scored.5.goals...not.trying.to.say.it.is.enough...but.every.other.attacking.player.undeperformed.

Actually I do. As I've been saying for a while now, we either need new tactics to stop relying on 35 year old wingers, or we need to buy a whole new frontline with new backups (or keep the current ones as backups).

We have a very good defence. We are spoilt for choice in midfield. And then in attack we have no real options and the ones we have fail to show up time and again. In my view Muller and Lewa are equally responsible for last Tuesday, and probably just as responsible as Ulreich.

The thing is the amount of goals Lewa scored doesn't say as much as the breakdown someone posted a couple of pages ago of vs whom and when he scored. He does score loads, it's undeniable, but it's useless scoring so many in the Bundesliga and then almost never scoring in the games where we actually need a striker of that caliber (because let's face it, we don't need that many goals in the Bundesliga to win the title).
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby MaCk0y » Thu May 03, 2018 3:38 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:It's the same thing with Lewandowski. It's almost impossible to name a better striker (at least a pure striker) yet he consistently fails to score important goals in these big CL games. Gomez, Mandzukic, and Olic scored them. I am willing to bet that if we replace Lewandowski our amount of goals scored in the Bundesliga will be much lower next season but if we have another big tie in the CL and play as well as we did in these two games vs Real, our striker will score at least one goal over two legs. And that is all we need.


my.space.button.doesnt.work.on.this.comp.so...

lewa.scored.5.goals.this.season.in.cl...Ribery.0...robben.0...muller.3...james.1...thiago..3..etc...kimmich..scored.same.amount.of.goals.as.muller..and.more.than.all.of.our.attacking.midfielders.together
while.in.2012/2013..robben.3goals..muller.8goals...ribery.1goal..schweini.2..kroos.3...mandzukic.3...gomez.2...pizarro.4.

so..you.see.the.difference...whole.team.scored.goals...while.this.season.everyone.was.off...but.you.dont.blame.muller,ribery,robben,james...you.blame.lewandowski.who.scored.5.goals...not.trying.to.say.it.is.enough...but.every.other.attacking.player.undeperformed.


At first, I thought you were joking. :lol: You can use the spacebar of the onscreen keyboard. :P
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby aterford » Thu May 03, 2018 3:54 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:Getting a worse striker means exactly that we are getting a worse striker. No way around it. If we wanna make our team stronger on our wings...we need to get new better wingers.
It doesnt mean we have to sell our best striker to get a new winger. We can just buy a new winger to make our team even better. Why compensate when we have money to buy a new player? That is just silly logic.

Well, first off, you're ignoring the fact that Lewy seemingly wants a move away and it seems you're just assuming that we'd never allow him to leave. I think that's a faulty assumption to begin with.
Second: you're conflating "can" with "will". Yes, we "can" afford to buy a new top winger, but you should know that with this club that's a very different thing from "will".
Third: you can get a "lesser" player and make your team stronger overall. It's not that hard to grasp. Compare our production from strikers/wingers in 2011, 2012, 2013 to today. We got *less* from our strikers but more on the whole (of course it should be pointed out too that Gomez, a "worse striker" in the eyes of most, gave us more in 2011/12 than Lewy did this year....). A goal is a goal; it doesn't matter where it comes from on the pitch. If our striker scores 40 goals and our wingers both score 10 for 60 total: that's no better than our striker scoring 30 and our wingers each scoring 15.

We'll have about €40m incoming from Costa's sale this summer. Hypothetically speaking, let's say that Lewy is adamant for a move away and we allow it and sell him for €100m. If he's as good as is being claimed, he'll fetch that price no problem. We've now got €140m (on top of what we were already planning to spend) in the bank. Say we buy Werner for €70m (which I think is high, TBH). Between Werner and Lewy there's about a 20 goal gap, assuming Werner doesn't develop any further and that he wouldn't see his production increase when he joins a better team (which is next to impossible, but I'm being generous). With €70m + whatever we have marked to spend already, can we make up for that 20 goal difference? I think we can easily - and we can get younger in doing so. Big picture, it's an easy move.

sch0ll7 wrote:I think it was obvious and everyone on this forum knew that Lewy is much better striker and that his goal scoring record is way better than Wagners.

Wagner= 379 games 98 goals 31 assists
Lewy= 493 games 314 goals 97 assists

Our board and even Wagner knows that he came here to be a backup and he is fine with that. Like I said...it is the same thing as Ulrich came here to be a backup for Neuer.

Well, if we want to play that game...how does their scoring per 90 minutes this season compare?

sch0ll7 wrote:Again...so you think we should sell Lewandowski just because we need a winger? I dont get this logic. Lets also sell Neuer and Alaba so we can buy Salah. It doesnt matter if we have Ulreich, Bernat and Wagner playing first XI...as long as we have a better winger.
This is just straw-manning and TBH is kinda unbecoming of a moderator of this forum. I'd like to think we can have a more honest discussion here....nobody is saying to sell Lewandowski for the sake of getting a winger. The question is if we're better off with a "worse" striker and "better" wingers or if it's better to have a "better" striker and "worse" wingers. Knowing how this club works, I really sincerely doubt we'll have both any time soon.

sch0ll7 wrote:We at Bayern play more as a team and dont favor Lewandowski when it comes to scoring goals. We have Muller, Ribery, Robben and other attacking players that often score.
That is why we will never have a player that has an outstanding goalscoring record like Ronaldo, Messi, Salah...because we tend to get all of our attackers involved. Even our midfielders score a lot of goals. We have a different approach and that is okay. I dont care who scores goals..as long as we score.


Well, there you have it. This is exactly what I'm saying: our team doesn't "favor" our CF. We don't need a player with an outstanding goalscoring record BECAUSE we get all our attackers involved and as you said right here: I don't care who scores goals as long as we score. It shouldn't matter if our goals are coming from Lewandowksi or from elsewhere. The simple fact remains that we can have a "worse" striker and not see a single result change.
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Re: Robert Lewandowski

Postby sch0ll7 » Thu May 03, 2018 6:55 pm

aterford wrote:Well, first off, you're ignoring the fact that Lewy seemingly wants a move away and it seems you're just assuming that we'd never allow him to leave. I think that's a faulty assumption to begin with.
Second: you're conflating "can" with "will". Yes, we "can" afford to buy a new top winger, but you should know that with this club that's a very different thing from "will".
Third: you can get a "lesser" player and make your team stronger overall. It's not that hard to grasp. Compare our production from strikers/wingers in 2011, 2012, 2013 to today. We got *less* from our strikers but more on the whole (of course it should be pointed out too that Gomez, a "worse striker" in the eyes of most, gave us more in 2011/12 than Lewy did this year....). A goal is a goal; it doesn't matter where it comes from on the pitch. If our striker scores 40 goals and our wingers both score 10 for 60 total: that's no better than our striker scoring 30 and our wingers each scoring 15.

We'll have about €40m incoming from Costa's sale this summer. Hypothetically speaking, let's say that Lewy is adamant for a move away and we allow it and sell him for €100m. If he's as good as is being claimed, he'll fetch that price no problem. We've now got €140m (on top of what we were already planning to spend) in the bank. Say we buy Werner for €70m (which I think is high, TBH). Between Werner and Lewy there's about a 20 goal gap, assuming Werner doesn't develop any further and that he wouldn't see his production increase when he joins a better team (which is next to impossible, but I'm being generous). With €70m + whatever we have marked to spend already, can we make up for that 20 goal difference? I think we can easily - and we can get younger in doing so. Big picture, it's an easy move.


You cant use a word "fact" and "seemingly"/"seems"/"assuming" in the same sentence. Did Lewa say that he wants to leave? So getting a new agent (after everyone on this forum said he needs to get a new agent because his old agent was just stupid) is not good and he wants to force a transfer? I mean if he wants to leave our board will let him leave...we have always sold players that forced a transfer and we couldnt talk them out of it. I think that noone will cry if he wants to go and we sell him for some serious money..but we cant just assume and then say it is a fact.
Even if we wanted to buy a new top winger...there just are no world class wingers that we can afford. Maybe Mahrez and Martial..they are a good option but we surely wont go for someone like Hazard, Messi, Salah...We all know we need new wingers that will take over from Robben and Ribery...we have Coman and Gnabry coming in...I think they are good..but would still add at least 1 top winger.

When it comes to Gomez-Lewa comparisation...Gomez is a pure poacher that couldnt hold a ball if his life depended on it...his first touch was worse than Mullers. That is why Guardiola wanted him gone and we brought Lewandowski who can score goals and help with the buildup or at least do a one-two.

You want to solve a striker problem by selling our only top striker...and buying a new good striker by wishing he becomes as good as Lewandowski. While the only solution is that we buy a striker like Werner, Brandt etc...that can make our attack better.

aterford wrote:Well, if we want to play that game...how does their scoring per 90 minutes this season compare?


Everyone who played football knows that a striker who comes in fresh in the 60th minute against a lesser team will be easier to score goals than while playing from first minute when every player is fresh. And if you compare opposition teams and defences that both of them played against...you will see that Lewa always played against stronger opposition.
Not trying to take anything away from Wagner...and make Lewa better...but please let's not compare two of them as everyone in the world will say Lewa is much better than him...it is not even debatable...that is why we let Wagner go when he was with us...and only bought him back to be a backup for Lewa. That is a fact.

aterford wrote:This is just straw-manning and TBH is kinda unbecoming of a moderator of this forum. I'd like to think we can have a more honest discussion here....nobody is saying to sell Lewandowski for the sake of getting a winger. The question is if we're better off with a "worse" striker and "better" wingers or if it's better to have a "better" striker and "worse" wingers. Knowing how this club works, I really sincerely doubt we'll have both any time soon.


Lol..the best option is to Have a top striker (which we already have) and getting a better winger (which we need to buy). Why complicate things when there is no need to do that.

So lets say we try your experiment by selling Lewandowski and buying a lesser striker in Werner.
Who do we go for with that extra money? Lets see if you can come up with a realistic target that will make our right/left wing better (better than Coman, Ribery,Robben,Gnabry). And it isnt someone that is already a realistic target and we can easily buy them for not so much...Martial, Mahrez, Malcom (they wont cost us 100m).


aterford wrote:Well, there you have it. This is exactly what I'm saying: our team doesn't "favor" our CF. We don't need a player with an outstanding goalscoring record BECAUSE we get all our attackers involved and as you said right here: I don't care who scores goals as long as we score. It shouldn't matter if our goals are coming from Lewandowksi or from elsewhere. The simple fact remains that we can have a "worse" striker and not see a single result change.


"We can have a worse striker and not a singe result changes"...but we are debating about this just because we want results to change.
Us having a "worse" striker and buying a better winger wont change for better...but us keeping a top striker and getting a better wingers will make a change for the better. It seems logical to me.
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