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Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby zozon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:56 am

Agreed with both Ylonen Xabi & aterford.
I completely forgot about Iniesta and his "statistics". And I was honored to watch him.

Also - I completely agree about DM's integration and a position like AM. Its way more intricate, delicate and nuanced to know where all of your attacking players are and are going to be at all times, how and when they will run into to receive a pass or deceive a defender. Plus, I cant remember when was the last time Bayern had a #10 like Coutinho (James WASN'T like that), so I dont think plenty of the players know how to utilise one :lol:
For seasons and seasons we were concentrated on the wings and the wingbacks overlapping, look at Lewa's last comments:

Robert Lewandowski is happy with the fact that Philippe Coutinho adds more unpredictability to Bayern's attack: "It's good that we have many options in attack to create offensive actions. For example, to play through the middle." [Bild]


And I certainly believe Robert Lewandowski way more than some forum managers.

Just look at your favourite Pep & City about players integration.
Rodri fell right nice into their lineup, but Bernardo Silva, Mahrez or even Sterling needed time to truly envelop themselves into the team.

Its totally idiotic to even discuss a players' impact after his 184 minutes total. Like, completely moronic.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Fénix » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:37 am

YlonenXabi wrote:Coutinho plays way deeper than Müller and his duties are making the game flow, linking up the midfield with the attack... just like a certain Iniesta.

Have you ever seen Müller drop back into CM positions and create anything productive? No, because he is a different type of player. He's got different assets and that's why you can't compare their numbers.

This, this and this! =D> =D> =D>

EOD! Shut down everything! Bring the beer and let's make the party turned on. 8) :mrgreen:

I guess we can apply the same for Schweinsteiger who we miss soooo much over the last 4 years.

zozon wrote:Agreed with both Ylonen Xabi & aterford.
I completely forgot about Iniesta and his "statistics". And I was honored to watch him.

Also - I completely agree about DM's integration and a position like AM. Its way more intricate, delicate and nuanced to know where all of your attacking players are and are going to be at all times, how and when they will run into to receive a pass or deceive a defender. Plus, I cant remember when was the last time Bayern had a #10 like Coutinho (James WASN'T like that), so I dont think plenty of the players know how to utilise one :lol:
For seasons and seasons we were concentrated on the wings and the wingbacks overlapping, look at Lewa's last comments:

Robert Lewandowski is happy with the fact that Philippe Coutinho adds more unpredictability to Bayern's attack: "It's good that we have many options in attack to create offensive actions. For example, to play through the middle." [Bild]


And I certainly believe Robert Lewandowski way more than some forum managers.

Just look at your favourite Pep & City about players integration.
Rodri fell right nice into their lineup, but Bernardo Silva, Mahrez or even Sterling needed time to truly envelop themselves into the team.

Its totally idiotic to even discuss a players' impact after his 184 minutes total. Like, completely moronic.

All positions demand time, patience and integration. Not all players are capable of making an instant impact as they arrive to a new club and country, even the best in the world. That's stupid way of thinking.
Everyone, literally everyone needs time, someone more someone less time. Just as some people are able of learning faster some things and some people slower while in some other things the latter ones are faster and the first ones are slower, but as long as both groups are capable to make it, reach their goals and manage to learn it in an acceptable time, it's all fine.

The same goes with players, especially the ones who played during the summer with their national teams and had a prolonged vacation. It takes time to catch the form, match fitness and then again - to adapt and accommodate to a new club, new players, new way of playing, new country, new city, new language and new people.

Jesus Christ, Coutinho isn't Diego Armando Maradona or Pelé or Ronaldo O Fenômeno or Ronaldinho. :lol: :lol: :lol: We didn't sign any of them to expect showtime and hurricane on the pitch. :mrgreen:

p.s. 184 minutes are two 90 minutes matches + 2x2 minutes of the additional time. Absolutely ridiculous to say anything about the Brazilian or any other player after 2 games which Coutinho didn't even play from the first to the final referee whistle. #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o :roll:

I remember what Spanish media were writing about Luka Modrić during his first 6-7 months at Real Madrid. They spat on him after just couple of weeks, called him a one of the biggest flops, a fraud, far from a serious player and God knows what they didn't say about him.
What happened? Luka didn't train and play at Tottenham with the teammates because he rejected that to force a move to Spain, then he moved to Madrid on August 31st, came to a new club, waaay bigger club, new country, new language, big egos and clans in the dressing room, completely out of rhythm and match form and yet what happened in spring that season and all these years till nowadays... The rest is a history. Modrić has already become a club legend.

Stop the senseless discussion immediately and let the man doing his work at Bayern. Judge him after the first 6-8 months, not after barely 2 matches played.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 10:08 am

YlonenXabi wrote:I just learnt that if you don't give an assist or score you had a bad game :shock:


Let me ask you something. Do you think this guy from below had a succesfull career as a creative midfielder?

17/18 - 30 games, 1 goal, 2 assists

16/17 - 23 games, 0 goals, 3 assists

15/16 - 28 games, 1 goal, 2 assists

14/15 - 24 games, 0 goals, 1 assist




Image

You can add 2 Euro Cups and 1 World Cup to that picture :wink:





Coutinho plays way deeper than Müller and his duties are making the game flow, linking up the midfield with the attack... just like a certain Iniesta.

Have you ever seen Müller drop back into CM positions and create anything productive? No, because he is a different type of player. He's got different assets and that's why you can't compare their numbers.


We can argue who is a better fit for the team (and Coutinho wins by a big margin IMO) but comparing their numbers is pointless.

You're losing it, literally nobody talked about numbers. Put this in a private message to MUTU. You forget I'm the also the person who thinks Müller's shit, despite his numbers.

Countiho's nothing special not because his numbers aren't high, he's nothing special because he's nothing special. Comparing to Iniesta as well, ouch. Being able to dink a ball over the top doesn't make a player creative. Expected better from you.

I'll come back on how Coutinho's not a creative player. Prepare your best reactions.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby zozon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 11:05 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:he's nothing special because he's nothing special.


Says the guy who probable watched ZERO Liverpool games while Coutinho was there and probably watched 1-2 Barca games when he was played as a #10.

Say this same sentence to a Liverpool forum and you will get roasted, 100%. He left them a bit bitter because of the way he left, not because his footballing ability.
Say this same sentence to a Barca forum and Barca's coach will get roasted, 100%.
Bayern players watch him in training every day since he came and a guy like Lewandowski, a total football freak, praises him in almost every context. I dont think he ever did that to any other newcomer and I certainly dont think he is obliged to praise any teammate if he personally doesnt want to.

Just stop it already, this is ridiculous. You're making yourself look like a fool.
Somebody is presenting you facts and you're like: "Goal.com - ewwww", "Comparing to Iniesta - ewww".

You LITERALLY have no point to prove in this discussion and its all your personal opinion, a mere fantasy. I respect personal opinions, but you force yours, like its the only truth.
Calling a player shit after 184 minutes is crazy and its says a ton about the guy who said it, not about the player. I suggest you move on to better pastures and find a better suited sport to follow. Football and its nuances seem like a mind-boggling thing to you.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby aaaaaa » Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:02 pm

#12 wrote:Coutinho fits in as well as a pine cone up to now...

Leave Müller out of the equation and face simple facts: he ain’t special... Again, if he were, he'd play someplace else, Barcelona most likely...


I really dont understand why you support Bayern; I am sure some other fans would welcome you with open arms
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Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 1:07 pm

aaaaaa wrote:
#12 wrote:Coutinho fits in as well as a pine cone up to now...

Leave Müller out of the equation and face simple facts: he ain’t special... Again, if he were, he'd play someplace else, Barcelona most likely...


I really dont understand why you support Bayern; I am sure some other fans would welcome you with open arms

Glad I’m not the only one seeing this. His body of work stretches to the Pep days.

As for Coutinho I just don’t know why people are so impatient. New club, country, and language and people expect him to pull trees already!? I just don’t get it.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 2:32 pm

Some assessments on Coutinho based on Liverpool, Barcelona and a bit of Brazil:

-He has a unique shooting technique, and easily top 3-5 in the world

-He has elite “locomotion” (i.e. agility and balance in movement that results from low centre of gravity) - same level as Hazard, Thiago, Messi

-He can make passes the average players can’t because he has the technique

-He can’t make passes midfielders like Iniesta, Kroos and Thiago can make because he doesn’t see them

-His sense of pace is poor – sometimes he slows down play, sometimes moves too fast, sometimes drops too deep

-He can only track one runner at a time so can’t see the play two, three passes ahead like Iniesta

-No defensive contribution whatsoever for a midfielder. On the flip side, Kroos or Eriksen for example, though lacking any defensive skills, knows how to position themselves well enough to funnel plays. For a different example, Thiago and De Bruyne, both originally #10’s, actually learned how to defend.

-Not good/quick enough off-the-ball movement to open space, similar to the “Muller quality” but outside the final third. If you observe the likes of Iniesta, Eriksen, Kroos, David Silva, they do have some extent of this skill. They move away from the action, usually wide, stretch the opponents than drop back in to receive a pass and move the ball again to change the pace of the game.

-He can receive the ball between the lines and create chances or of course shoot (a quality for the final third), he can make passes between the lines, but he doesn’t make passes that break the lines, which is more important for a central midfielder and what Iniesta was amazing at

A lot of these, good and bad, are also applicable for James, but he also has more skillset and I viewed him as a power player (should’ve been him instead of Goretzka or Tolisso) or pure outlet (to produce like Muller) anyway. But he was also trapped in between, much like what Kovac appears to be doing for Coutinho now, which is why James failed and why I think Coutinho will too.

If anything at all, to make Coutinho work, I think we would need this:

Rather than what most would think, which is this:


Would be happy to discuss and exchange ideas rather than insults.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:56 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:You know that the same thing could be said of Leroy Sane, right?

Or Robben back in the days


You mean the Leroy Sané that won best young PL player the only year Coutinho ever shone? The one that has SIGNIFICANTLY better stats? And is 4 years younger and playing in a position we actually need? Ok...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 3:59 pm

aaaaaa wrote:
#12 wrote:Coutinho fits in as well as a pine cone up to now...

Leave Müller out of the equation and face simple facts: he ain’t special... Again, if he were, he'd play someplace else, Barcelona most likely...


I really dont understand why you support Bayern; I am sure some other fans would welcome you with open arms


Dumb much?

Learn to read before trying to patronize me...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:00 pm

Firefox1234 wrote:
aaaaaa wrote:
#12 wrote:Coutinho fits in as well as a pine cone up to now...

Leave Müller out of the equation and face simple facts: he ain’t special... Again, if he were, he'd play someplace else, Barcelona most likely...


I really dont understand why you support Bayern; I am sure some other fans would welcome you with open arms

Glad I’m not the only one seeing this. His body of work stretches to the Pep days.

As for Coutinho I just don’t know why people are so impatient. New club, country, and language and people expect him to pull trees already!? I just don’t get it.


How often do you want to repeat that Pep shit? We got it...

Also, you know, someone clever would realize that "the Pep days" was when I registered...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:08 pm

#12 wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote:
aaaaaa wrote:[quote="#12"]Coutinho fits in as well as a pine cone up to now...

Leave Müller out of the equation and face simple facts: he ain’t special... Again, if he were, he'd play someplace else, Barcelona most likely...


I really dont understand why you support Bayern; I am sure some other fans would welcome you with open arms

Glad I’m not the only one seeing this. His body of work stretches to the Pep days.

As for Coutinho I just don’t know why people are so impatient. New club, country, and language and people expect him to pull trees already!? I just don’t get it.


How often do you want to repeat that Pep shit? We got it...

Also, you know, someone clever would realize that "the Pep days" was when I registered... [/quote]
Yet you continue to pour sour grapes whenever you post. Believe me when I say this, I wouldn’t bring it up if it were not true. It’s just now other people are picking up on it.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 4:14 pm

Sure... And three months ago when we commented in that shit window it was the other way around...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby zozon » Fri Sep 20, 2019 6:18 pm

Just now?
I'm saying that guy is the forum cancer since he registered.

Also - he isnt a Bayern fan.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:40 pm

zozon wrote:Just now?
I'm saying that guy is the forum cancer since he registered.

Also - he isnt a Bayern fan.


No one cares about what you say... How’s Costa doing?

Also, cancer seems to be everywhere for you... Dignity and respect don’t...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Firefox1234 » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:32 pm

One of the reasons I am very patient with players is because there was a time when Arjen Robben was suspect number 1 on this forum after the UCL final defeats and missed PKs. If you look back me and many others were calling for his head when if you ask anyone now he is a club legend. I’m not saying Coutinho will experience something similar but less than a full month into the new season I am hesitant to make any definitive judgements.
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