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Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Sat Aug 24, 2019 4:35 am

aterford wrote:Have been burned before but so far he definitely seems to say and do all the right things.

Still it seems to be a tricky spot. If I'm being honest it's hard to see him performing at a level that would convince us to pay 120m to keep him. I know the market's inflated since then, but we'd be paying effectively the same amount (140m) for 28-y.o. Coutinho as Barcelona paid for him at 25-y.o.

I have seen some suggest (I think I've even said as much, lol) that perhaps Barcelona would be willing to come down on their price. Now, I'm not sure. The trouble with that (IMO) is this: if Coutinho plays well enough that we want to buy him, I think that serves to strengthen Barcelona's position. If he plays poorly, his value drops. If he plays well, his value holds or increases. So it's hard for me to see a scenario in which he plays well enough for us to be interested in a permanent deal, but "poor" enough that Barca would still be motivated to lower their price. .

Of course, if Barca are particularly motivated to sell, it's still possible. Say if they strike the loan+obligation to purchase Neymar next season. They'll likely need some sales to finance that move, so selling Coutinho would help them in that regard. The trouble would then be if he plays well enough for us to want to buy but also well enough to make other clubs take notice. If Barca needs money and (hypothetically) another club offers more than our max we're willing to pay, would they forsake the extra cash to keep 'good relationship' with us or whatever? I don't know.

And then there's still the Havertz issue. There's some fair overlap IMO between the role the two would be asked to occupy and I think we can all probably say with a fair level of confidence that given the choice between 120m for 28-y.o. Coutinho or 100m+ for 21-y.o. Havertz they'll pick Havertz. That's not a knock on Coutinho, just think that's kind of how it is.

But there are still perhaps some reason to hope. Gnabry and Coman are both quite injury-prone. I wouldn't hope for an injury, of course, but I'd really like to see - in a perfect world - Coutinho establish himself as a first-choice on the wings for us. If that's the case, we can likely still go for Havertz without having to worry about too much overlap. Sane or not, I don't think anybody would be too upset with a starting front of Lewy / Coutinho - Havertz - Gnabry or Coutinho - Havertz - Coman or similar. I'd be perfectly fine with that!

And I think there's also some value in paying a premium at times for the more 'sure thing'. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, as they say. 120m for Coutinho seems steep, but if he's playing really well....if he's settled really well, gets along well with the team, etc - Sometimes I think it's okay to pay a bit of a premium for this stability. Yes, 120m might be "overpaying" but if a player's "true value" is at - let's say 100m, for example - but he's playing really well, in great form, and he's very settled at the club/city, happy with his situation, wants to stay - and gets along with his teammates and his teammates enjoy playing with him and want him to stay in the side too - then I think it's okay to pay a bit above that "true value" to maintain that situation. But of course that's all hypotheticals, hard to say from here.

Anyways all that to say I'm fully expecting to be really bummed when he plays well but we decide to not pay and send him back. Hahaha.


I think that lineup lacks pace... Acceleration... Neither Gnabry nor Coutinho are really wingers...

And that doofus on the bench sure as hell us unable to establish his own brand - at least successfully... I really think wingerless doesn’t suit our style nor squad... now deploying Coutinho as a 10 flanked by, say Sané and Coman, that might be a treat... But I'd still go for Havertz... If a German player is equally good - we should go for the German... I agree on that dogma...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Tikoubaouine » Sat Aug 24, 2019 7:34 pm

The quoted 120m price is for Barcelona to save face, and also to backtrack on selling him in case he pulls Messi-like performances... which is impossible :)

Either Bayern buys him for 70-80 at most, or we don't and Barcelona won't find a different buyer giving them that much. We have the upper hand.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:38 am

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Paphlagonian » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:57 am

#12 wrote:I think that lineup lacks pace... Acceleration... Neither Gnabry nor Coutinho are really wingers...


Coutinho I understand but not the Gnabry. Gnabry is fast, agile and explosive. Yes! Maybe not the fastest player in the world but he's quite good for a winger and definitely not a "Müller in his prime RW" case. Also Gnabry playing as a winger since millennia even in Arsenal. The only problem I see with Gnabry is that he should have learned to play on reverted wing but with Coman's presence he can't really occupy the LW/LM.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Achilles » Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:22 am

Tikoubaouine wrote:Either Bayern buys him for 70-80 at most, or we don't and Barcelona won't find a different buyer giving them that much. We have the upper hand.

For an unknown reason I believe that too. 80M tops if he performs, impossible for Bayern to pay 120M for Coutinho considering that they will try to bring in at least two top-class German players with similar price tags. Rummenigge will take his rifle to Barcelona again and "negotiate" a better fee I suppose, talking about good relationships huh ? 8)

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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:49 pm

Paphlagonian wrote:
#12 wrote:I think that lineup lacks pace... Acceleration... Neither Gnabry nor Coutinho are really wingers...


Coutinho I understand but not the Gnabry. Gnabry is fast, agile and explosive. Yes! Maybe not the fastest player in the world but he's quite good for a winger and definitely not a "Müller in his prime RW" case. Also Gnabry playing as a winger since millennia even in Arsenal. The only problem I see with Gnabry is that he should have learned to play on reverted wing but with Coman's presence he can't really occupy the LW/LM.


Oh yes, the speed thing was just about Coutinho!

Still I think Gnabry as a winger will never make it to WC...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby sch0ll7 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 2:05 pm

If he performs great for us...then I dont think 120mil€ is much in todays market. That would take us to 128.5mil€ which is not really that much for a top performing world class player in todays market.
There is no way you can get a world class attacking player with 3 years left on his contract for less than 120mil€.

If he ends up being one of our top performers this season I say buy him.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Lahmies » Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:40 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:If he performs great for us...then I dont think 120mil€ is much in todays market. That would take us to 128.5mil€ which is not really that much for a top performing world class player in todays market.
There is no way you can get a world class attacking player with 3 years left on his contract for less than 120mil€.

If he ends up being one of our top performers this season I say buy him.


In isolation, yes. But if we also want to get Havertz, it becomes quite excessive...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby IsiahRashad » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:22 pm

Philippe Coutinho: I’m very happy to play my first 30 minutes. It was amazing. I had been looking forward to my first game and the stadium was full with a good atmosphere. I’m really happy to be in this league. This is a big club and we are going to fight for everything. The Champions League is an objective for the team and for me.

Coutinho on Lewandowski: He's incredible, just world-class. It's incredible, the way he trains. I've been here a few days and watching him up close he's so much better than you think on TV. He had a great game today, a great hat-trick and he deserves it.

Ivan Perišić on Coutinho: He's a really nice guy and an even better footballer. In the past years, we've seen that he's had a lot of good seasons with Liverpool and Barcelona and I think he'll help us a lot this season.

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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby sch0ll7 » Sun Aug 25, 2019 10:26 pm

Lahmies wrote:In isolation, yes. But if we also want to get Havertz, it becomes quite excessive...


The way I see it..we are looking at Sane in January..and then Coutinho or Havertz in the summer.
It all depends on the season those two will have. why would you not buy coutinho if he shows his class. if he doesnt...send him back and buy Havertz if he performs better.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Jorge » Mon Aug 26, 2019 4:44 am

IsiahRashad wrote:
"I knew Thiago before, we used to talk. He's also from Rio de Janeiro (...)


Is he?
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:26 am

Jorge wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:
"I knew Thiago before, we used to talk. He's also from Rio de Janeiro (...)


Is he?
Haha. He was probably talking about the 2 perios when Thiago was playing for the lower levels of Flamengo.
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby Bentonomo » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:35 pm

#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:Have been burned before but so far he definitely seems to say and do all the right things.

Still it seems to be a tricky spot. If I'm being honest it's hard to see him performing at a level that would convince us to pay 120m to keep him. I know the market's inflated since then, but we'd be paying effectively the same amount (140m) for 28-y.o. Coutinho as Barcelona paid for him at 25-y.o.

I have seen some suggest (I think I've even said as much, lol) that perhaps Barcelona would be willing to come down on their price. Now, I'm not sure. The trouble with that (IMO) is this: if Coutinho plays well enough that we want to buy him, I think that serves to strengthen Barcelona's position. If he plays poorly, his value drops. If he plays well, his value holds or increases. So it's hard for me to see a scenario in which he plays well enough for us to be interested in a permanent deal, but "poor" enough that Barca would still be motivated to lower their price. .

Of course, if Barca are particularly motivated to sell, it's still possible. Say if they strike the loan+obligation to purchase Neymar next season. They'll likely need some sales to finance that move, so selling Coutinho would help them in that regard. The trouble would then be if he plays well enough for us to want to buy but also well enough to make other clubs take notice. If Barca needs money and (hypothetically) another club offers more than our max we're willing to pay, would they forsake the extra cash to keep 'good relationship' with us or whatever? I don't know.

And then there's still the Havertz issue. There's some fair overlap IMO between the role the two would be asked to occupy and I think we can all probably say with a fair level of confidence that given the choice between 120m for 28-y.o. Coutinho or 100m+ for 21-y.o. Havertz they'll pick Havertz. That's not a knock on Coutinho, just think that's kind of how it is.

But there are still perhaps some reason to hope. Gnabry and Coman are both quite injury-prone. I wouldn't hope for an injury, of course, but I'd really like to see - in a perfect world - Coutinho establish himself as a first-choice on the wings for us. If that's the case, we can likely still go for Havertz without having to worry about too much overlap. Sane or not, I don't think anybody would be too upset with a starting front of Lewy / Coutinho - Havertz - Gnabry or Coutinho - Havertz - Coman or similar. I'd be perfectly fine with that!

And I think there's also some value in paying a premium at times for the more 'sure thing'. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, as they say. 120m for Coutinho seems steep, but if he's playing really well....if he's settled really well, gets along well with the team, etc - Sometimes I think it's okay to pay a bit of a premium for this stability. Yes, 120m might be "overpaying" but if a player's "true value" is at - let's say 100m, for example - but he's playing really well, in great form, and he's very settled at the club/city, happy with his situation, wants to stay - and gets along with his teammates and his teammates enjoy playing with him and want him to stay in the side too - then I think it's okay to pay a bit above that "true value" to maintain that situation. But of course that's all hypotheticals, hard to say from here.

Anyways all that to say I'm fully expecting to be really bummed when he plays well but we decide to not pay and send him back. Hahaha.


I think that lineup lacks pace... Acceleration... Neither Gnabry nor Coutinho are really wingers...

And that doofus on the bench sure as hell us unable to establish his own brand - at least successfully... I really think wingerless doesn’t suit our style nor squad... now deploying Coutinho as a 10 flanked by, say Sané and Coman, that might be a treat... But I'd still go for Havertz... If a German player is equally good - we should go for the German... I agree on that dogma...


How in hell isnt Gnabry a winger
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby #12 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:58 am

Bentonomo wrote:
#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:Have been burned before but so far he definitely seems to say and do all the right things.

Still it seems to be a tricky spot. If I'm being honest it's hard to see him performing at a level that would convince us to pay 120m to keep him. I know the market's inflated since then, but we'd be paying effectively the same amount (140m) for 28-y.o. Coutinho as Barcelona paid for him at 25-y.o.

I have seen some suggest (I think I've even said as much, lol) that perhaps Barcelona would be willing to come down on their price. Now, I'm not sure. The trouble with that (IMO) is this: if Coutinho plays well enough that we want to buy him, I think that serves to strengthen Barcelona's position. If he plays poorly, his value drops. If he plays well, his value holds or increases. So it's hard for me to see a scenario in which he plays well enough for us to be interested in a permanent deal, but "poor" enough that Barca would still be motivated to lower their price. .

Of course, if Barca are particularly motivated to sell, it's still possible. Say if they strike the loan+obligation to purchase Neymar next season. They'll likely need some sales to finance that move, so selling Coutinho would help them in that regard. The trouble would then be if he plays well enough for us to want to buy but also well enough to make other clubs take notice. If Barca needs money and (hypothetically) another club offers more than our max we're willing to pay, would they forsake the extra cash to keep 'good relationship' with us or whatever? I don't know.

And then there's still the Havertz issue. There's some fair overlap IMO between the role the two would be asked to occupy and I think we can all probably say with a fair level of confidence that given the choice between 120m for 28-y.o. Coutinho or 100m+ for 21-y.o. Havertz they'll pick Havertz. That's not a knock on Coutinho, just think that's kind of how it is.

But there are still perhaps some reason to hope. Gnabry and Coman are both quite injury-prone. I wouldn't hope for an injury, of course, but I'd really like to see - in a perfect world - Coutinho establish himself as a first-choice on the wings for us. If that's the case, we can likely still go for Havertz without having to worry about too much overlap. Sane or not, I don't think anybody would be too upset with a starting front of Lewy / Coutinho - Havertz - Gnabry or Coutinho - Havertz - Coman or similar. I'd be perfectly fine with that!

And I think there's also some value in paying a premium at times for the more 'sure thing'. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, as they say. 120m for Coutinho seems steep, but if he's playing really well....if he's settled really well, gets along well with the team, etc - Sometimes I think it's okay to pay a bit of a premium for this stability. Yes, 120m might be "overpaying" but if a player's "true value" is at - let's say 100m, for example - but he's playing really well, in great form, and he's very settled at the club/city, happy with his situation, wants to stay - and gets along with his teammates and his teammates enjoy playing with him and want him to stay in the side too - then I think it's okay to pay a bit above that "true value" to maintain that situation. But of course that's all hypotheticals, hard to say from here.

Anyways all that to say I'm fully expecting to be really bummed when he plays well but we decide to not pay and send him back. Hahaha.


I think that lineup lacks pace... Acceleration... Neither Gnabry nor Coutinho are really wingers...

And that doofus on the bench sure as hell us unable to establish his own brand - at least successfully... I really think wingerless doesn’t suit our style nor squad... now deploying Coutinho as a 10 flanked by, say Sané and Coman, that might be a treat... But I'd still go for Havertz... If a German player is equally good - we should go for the German... I agree on that dogma...


How in hell isnt Gnabry a winger


In that he isn’t

He’s more like a secondary striker that "developed" into his role... He’s not WC either way...
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Re: Philippe Coutinho [Philippe Coutinho Correia]

Postby IsiahRashad » Tue Aug 27, 2019 6:40 pm



:mrgreen: =D>
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