You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

Lukas Podolski

Discussions about the former / present players & staff, and their personal life. Was a player fined for speeding? Did a former player become a coach? Find it all here.
 

Postby fcelber87 » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:22 am

Jorge wrote:
Paddy wrote:Looks like Hitzfeld agrees with me.

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=556472


No question about it, 4 strikers is better than 3; Hitzfeld is right on that one; but he is dead wrong on using the 3rd striker occasionally as 80th minute sub, this strategy will backfire on him! If Klose or Toni go down injured one day he will find a rusty 3rd striker. IMO a 3rd striker needs to start games at times, even if they are benched after the first half, then come at 2nd half sub at other times, this keeps that player inserted in the dinamics of the team, on the the regular schemes and not modified strategies that usually happen in the last 10-15 min of a match. It is not benching Klose or Toni, it is lining that 3rd striker up with one or the other, with the rest, from the start, at halftime; this will make that player valuable and in better shape to take over for an injured regular.

The 4th striker is the one that should be that 80th minute player, who bring extra pace to break down a tired defense. Whether Podolski is the 3rd or the 4th that's another question.

One might say that he is given a starting spot at Cup matches more often, but that is a whole different competition that it is approached with a different mindset.

The way I see it, if Podolski does not go on loan elsewhere he will become the next Roque Santa Cruz at Bayern, he will spend all this precious time on the bench and he will go shopping for another club later on after wasting his developement years. He needs to get out of Bayern the rest of this season, so he can come in a better position in the summer to work the final year of his contract under Klinsmann who I am sure will create a better environment for him, even when Podolski might be still behind Klose and Toni.



I agree with you Jorge, but look at players like Demichelis who had it rough for a couple of seasons and has now developed the kind of mentality and level of play that is expected at Bayern. Poldi is a player who perhaps peaked a little too early. There is no doubt that he is talented but he has to learn the hard way. maybe a change of scenery with work. But the bottom line is - he is a Bayern Munich player and it matters what he does in a Bayern Kit, not a Man city kit. (Man City is no Bayern)

Besides the Bolton game, Poldi has played with little enthusiasm and creativity. Even as a sub he has looked lackluster. i agree with The General, It is not his problem if Poldi plays in the summer or not. Lukas has so much talent, if he really wants it, he can get it--he just has to bite the bullet a little bit.
User avatar
fcelber87
Yeah, now I'm talking!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 11:28 pm
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:38 am

Two (or was it 3?) seasons ago we had Santa Cruz out long term and we had Makaay, Pizarro and Guerrero. The club didn't feel the need to buy another attacker because they felt half a season with 3 attackers was enough. And it was.

I would see the loaning out of Podolski as an investment in his future. Obviously, Hitzfeld doesn't care about this because he won't be with us next season. I am sure that Klinsi would approve the loan.

Anyway, the loan could be done with an option to have him return to the club should Bayern need him. If we suffer a lot of injuries, we'd be able to get him back and play him. And it would be better for us because he'd be playing whilst match fit.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 42850
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 7776 times
Been thanked: 12073 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Postby Jorge » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:25 pm

MUTU wrote:I would see the loaning out of Podolski as an investment in his future. Obviously, Hitzfeld doesn't care about this because he won't be with us next season. I am sure that Klinsi would approve the loan.


Well said! And investing in Podolski future might be investing in Bayern future. Hitzfeld is taking the wrong approach and if he is leaving at the end of the season he should think beyond that date for the sake of Bayern.
User avatar
Jorge
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2211
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Nashville, USA
National Flag:
Åland Islands
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 1303 times
Gender: Male

Postby tracylynn » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:26 pm

First of all, Hitzfeld is taking the right approach. I don't agree that this has nothing to do with the fact that Hitzfeld will not be with Bayern next season because I'm sure Hitzfeld and others want to see Lukas starting but they are not simply going to let him start because he does not show any effort. I believe they want Lukas to make the effort to show that he deserves the start. Plus, the final decision to loan Podolski out is up to Uli and he has stated that Podolski is going nowhere because they need 4 strikers and with time running out they could very well not get a good replacement for him. So, this has nothing to do with Hitzfeld. This all comes down to Uli and his decisions.

Secondly, this ia quote from a recent interview from Loew and Beckenbauer....

'Naturally, Ottmar Hitzfeld has to look after his own interests and I can understand what he means 100 percent,' said Loew.

And Beckenbauer says the onus is now on Podolski to prove himself behind established goal-scorers Klose and Toni who have netted 18 league goals between them so far this season.

'He was very young when he came to us and is still in the learning phase,' said 'The Kaiser'.

'The competition with Klose and Toni will do him good.'

Podolski has been frustrated by the amount of time he has spent on the bench with only two league starts all season and is worried about losing his place in the German team behind Klose and Schalke's Kevin Kuranyi.

'Lukas knows that we rely on him, if his attitude continues to be correct then he has nothing to worry about,' added Loew


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I totally agree with what they are saying. Lukas needs the competition to push and prove himself, which he has yet to do. The competition will do him good if only he would see that. He needs to push himself to show the world that he is that star that folks think he is. He needs to learn that things don't come for free and that one haas to work for it. But, if he keeps up with the good attitude, which I do think he thinks correctly, then that should carry over to his work habits.
Raider (1996-2007) - A very lovable cat that I will miss dearly.
tracylynn
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Springfield, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby MUTU » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:02 am

In a way it makes sense, tracylynn, but it may sound a bit too optimistic because patience is going to be lost soon. Not just his, but also the board's and the fans'. And if that happens, it'll be a very bad situation for him. Let's hope it doesn't turn out that way.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 42850
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 7776 times
Been thanked: 12073 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Postby Jorge » Thu Jan 24, 2008 5:44 pm

I don't know how many of you are ex-soccer players, I was at a competitive level for many years, and I was in both positions (starter and sub) like every player that I am aware of.

When you are on the bench at every game it is hard to prove yourself, what resources do you have at your disposal?

1. Training harder, it will do little if you are "out of favor" with the coach.
2. If the starters fail to deliver in 80+ minutes coming as a sub and doing in less than 10 minutes what they could not do throughout a whole game?
3. If a starter is injured and suspended coming in and inserting yourself in the dynamics of the team to own the field beyond any reasonable doubt that you are the one. I have never met a player that can do that.

IMO, a proven player at a competitive sport –like Podolski- needs rotation as part of the regular ones, even when it means he is 3rd or 4th choice. Most are making the argument here that he needs that pressure so he can grow from that to improve, the same argument goes to Toni and Klose, they need to see the game from the bench at times, specially when they go on a slump or show signs of selfishness (and they went through this on the second part of November and December). The big European coaches bench their stars at all clubs all the time, and there are good reasons to do that.

Did Hitzfeld get any result when he started Podolski, specially the game that Toni was out injured? No. He rushed himself to shoot from long range, he did not pass the ball to Klose when he got open, all this “trying to prove himself” because he know there will be not too many chances after that game.

For me, Bayern is losing Podolski having him on the bench more than loaning him out, that theory of “we need 4 strikers” is absurd if two of them have calluses on their butt from sitting on the bench. I would agree if they say “we need 4 tuned strikers”
User avatar
Jorge
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2211
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Nashville, USA
National Flag:
Åland Islands
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 1303 times
Gender: Male

Postby Miss Dangerous » Thu Jan 24, 2008 6:35 pm

Football365
Image
Bayern Munich president Franz Beckenbauer has ruled out the possibility of Lukas Podolski leaving the Allianz Arena.

The out-of-favour striker has grown frustrated at his lack of first-team opportunities and has been linked with a move to Manchester City.

But Beckenbauer told the Bild newspaper: "Bayern are still in three competitions with the title race, UEFA Cup and DFB-Pokal. It seems too great a risk to let a striker leave."

The former World Cup winner added: "Bayern is also better for his personal development. He came to us very young and is still learning.

"The competition for places with (Luca) Toni and (Miroslav) Klose will make him more mature. Therefore he has to stay put."
User avatar
Miss Dangerous
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Danger Zone
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 9 times
Gender: Female

Postby Miss Dangerous » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:20 pm

Jorge wrote:IMO, a proven player at a competitive sport –like Podolski- needs rotation as part of the regular ones, even when it means he is 3rd or 4th choice. Most are making the argument here that he needs that pressure so he can grow from that to improve, the same argument goes to Toni and Klose, they need to see the game from the bench at times, specially when they go on a slump or show signs of selfishness (and they went through this on the second part of November and December). The big European coaches bench their stars at all clubs all the time, and there are good reasons to do that.

Did Hitzfeld get any result when he started Podolski, specially the game that Toni was out injured? No. He rushed himself to shoot from long range, he did not pass the ball to Klose when he got open, all this “trying to prove himself” because he know there will be not too many chances after that game.

For me, Bayern is losing Podolski having him on the bench more than loaning him out, that theory of “we need 4 strikers” is absurd if two of them have calluses on their butt from sitting on the bench. I would agree if they say “we need 4 tuned strikers”


I don`t remember any game that Klose or Toni were too bad at! and on the second part of November and December, our midfield was the issue, I mean.. how could Toni and Klose score if they don`t get any good ball or a real chance to score?! and when it comes to the selfishness... it`s important to have that in a goal scorer (of course in a specific limit) but I don`t see that our main strikers have crossed the line. in fact, Klose was the reason why.. Toni found himself so quickly in the squad :!:
User avatar
Miss Dangerous
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Danger Zone
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 9 times
Gender: Female

Postby walter » Thu Jan 24, 2008 7:54 pm

I could not agree more with Jorge. If Hitzfeld is not rotating strikers then there is no support for his "4 strikers" argument.
And yes, there were games were both Klose and Toni were subpar and Hitzfeld shouldn't have waited until the 85 minute to send in Podolski (in most cases he never even got a chance to begin with). Using Poldi more frequently not just gives more chances and match practice to him but would send a clear message to Toni and Klose that they should not loose focus because we have talent in the bench at their positions.

On a different point, I have seen games were Klose has played a lot better than Toni but it was still Toni who received most of the praise from the management. Its like the management is trying too hard to keep him happy and IMO that has affected Klose, who after starting the season at a level higher than Toni, did not look so hot on the second quarter...
User avatar
walter
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2393
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Texas, US
National Flag:
Venezuela
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 310 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Postby tracylynn » Thu Jan 24, 2008 9:40 pm

Hitzfeld is not the only person using the 4 striker argument. Uli is using it to. He has said that in his interviews therefore it is not just Hitzfeld.

Last year, Podolski was given a chance by Hitzfeld and he didn't do much then either. A lot of folks, including myself, were giving him the benefit of the doubt because of Magath and so on. Unfortunately, he ended up getting injured so he could not develop more and "prove" himself but in the time he had he still didn't do much.

As much as everyone wants him to show his talent, the thing is we do not know what kind of effort he puts in the practices. A coach is going to start a player who puts effort and determination and has a repoire with the others on the field. Who is to say that Podolski is showing these attributes but Hitzfeld is simply not starting him? We do not know. Podolski simply may not be putting in the effort that says, "Start me!!" Plus, there are the comments about how he is not in the best of shape. That is the current reason why he is 4th on the depth chart. You can blame part of that on the flu he had recently, but is he spending a lot of time working out? We do not know. They simply don't tell us that information.

As for the Klose and Toni argument...well, those two work well together, IMO. But, last year Klose went through a dry spell with Werder Bremen and I remember hearing every excuse as to why he was not scoring. So, I don't think Klose went on a dry spell because of Toni being praised by the management. He, just like Toni and other strikers, just dried up for a moment. Hopefully, he is back to normal.
Raider (1996-2007) - A very lovable cat that I will miss dearly.
tracylynn
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Springfield, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby walter » Thu Jan 24, 2008 11:04 pm

I agree with most of what you said Tracy, but what I don't get is that what you just said seems to make an excellent case on why we should send him on loan and not why we should keep him for the rest of season (which I think is what you deem the right thing to do) given that he will probably not get much playing time.
User avatar
walter
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2393
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:26 pm
Location: Texas, US
National Flag:
Venezuela
Has thanked: 359 times
Been thanked: 310 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Postby tracylynn » Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:53 am

Actually, I never did say whether I was for or against loaning Lukas to another club. I was stating why he won't be loaned out and I also said that I agreed with Hitzfeld, Loew, and Bekenbauer that Lukas needs the competition to push himself. One would think with Klose and Toni at the club that Lukas would push himself to show that he deserves to be a starter and the star of the team. Actually, I think most folks felt the same way and it has not turned out that way so far.

I also think what the top brass are saying to Lukas is that this is Bayern Munich and not Koln. Here one has to work their a**es off to be the starter, to be the star and so forth. One does not get things for free. I think that is what they have been trying to get him to see for a long time. Bayern is a big club and things there are not the same as they are at Koln.

As the saying goes...one must pay their dues before they have success. Perhaps this is Lukas' time to pay his dues before he will be the star of the team? I believe that he will get better but I believe it is going to take him just a little bit more time.
Raider (1996-2007) - A very lovable cat that I will miss dearly.
tracylynn
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Springfield, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

Postby Miss Dangerous » Fri Jan 25, 2008 5:25 pm

walter wrote:I could not agree more with Jorge. If Hitzfeld is not rotating strikers then there is no support for his "4 strikers" argument.
And yes, there were games were both Klose and Toni were subpar and Hitzfeld shouldn't have waited until the 85 minute to send in Podolski (in most cases he never even got a chance to begin with). Using Poldi more frequently not just gives more chances and match practice to him but would send a clear message to Toni and Klose that they should not loose focus because we have talent in the bench at their positions.

On a different point, I have seen games were Klose has played a lot better than Toni but it was still Toni who received most of the praise from the management. Its like the management is trying too hard to keep him happy and IMO that has affected Klose, who after starting the season at a level higher than Toni, did not look so hot on the second quarter...


Of course you can`t have Toni and Klose at their best 100% every game, that`s why... we should have a strong bench. but when it come to the performance of our 4 strikers as a whole.. Toni and Klose should be the starters (so far) and it`s important to have a stable-squad along the season :|
User avatar
Miss Dangerous
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 817
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2006 7:57 pm
Location: Danger Zone
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 9 times
Gender: Female

Postby Jorge » Sat Jan 26, 2008 6:25 pm

Miss Dangerous...!! wrote:I don`t remember any game that Klose or Toni were too bad at! and on the second part of November and December, our midfield was the issue, I mean.. how could Toni and Klose score if they don`t get any good ball or a real chance to score?!


Yeah, right....and if you ask a midfielder he will tell you: how can I get the ball to the striker if he does not get unmarked?

And I am not being too inflexible on this, The best coach I ever had used to tell us, it is not sending the pass to the unmarked player, it is sending it to the player's "controlled space" that can be in front of him, to his right, to his left, behind or even to his body if that is the right choice. There is a lot of ingredients on this rule: timing, pace, mobility, vision, knowledge of your own team and the opponent, etc.

Personally, I did not see a midfielder's problem as the culprit when Bayern slowed down at the end of the first half, I saw the whole team lossing unity as a group in attack, there was a little bit of not transitioning well from defense to attack, there was some lack of mixing plays in the midfield so the attack became too predictable, there were signs of disconection between Klose and Toni, and them and the rest.

Most of these problems are related to how the team is coached, and one of the components of the problem is fielding game after game the same players in the same formation. The famous "infamous words" by Kahn: "We are like Madrid or Milan, we are not Marseille or Fiorentina", were spoken in the wrong place, but something motivated Kahn to say them. Only this fact supports my point.

Bayern in paper is better that the next Bundesliga team by a mile, in the field I saw them struggling in some matches against teams on the bottom of the table with 1/5 of Bayern's budget.

Finally about the comment of Podolski lacking effort and determination, obviously this is the responsibility of the coach, Hitzfeld himself. 90% of the coach role is to motivate players, he has a whole staff behind him to work on the rest and implement his orders. The same Podolski, at the same time played for Loew and showed effort, determination and RESULTS. How can he get motivated by Loew and not by Hitzfeld?

Something smells funny here, I hope it is Podolski, if it is Hitzfeld I see the team falling apart before the end the season and he won't be around to shake Klinsmann's hand.
User avatar
Jorge
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2211
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Nashville, USA
National Flag:
Åland Islands
Has thanked: 142 times
Been thanked: 1303 times
Gender: Male

Postby tracylynn » Sun Jan 27, 2008 12:42 am

First of all, you can not compare Bayern to the NT. That is not a fair assessment at all. There's more pressure at a club level than there is at the NT level. I'm not saying the NT does not have any pressure, I'm just saying it's not the same.

Secondly, I do agree that a coach should be able to motivate the players, but it can be hard to motivate a player who has that oversize ego. I'm not saying that Lukas has that but he really has been build up beyond belief. He went from a club where he basically brought them back to recognizable level, where he was viewed as "Superman" to a club that it is the biggest in Germany and one of the biggest in the world. He went from a big fish in a small pond to little fish in a big pond where the rules are totally different.

He won the WV Best Young Player Award, which is a matter of debate as to whether he deserved it or not, and was viewed as Germany's version of David Beckham. Could it very well be that he thinks too highly of himself and think he does not need to do what the others do?

Finally, if Lukas can perform for Loew and Klinsmann but not for Magath and Hitzfeld then is the coach really the problem? Could the problem be that he wants to do what he wants to do? I think by reading all the comments from Uli, Karl, Loew, Hitzfeld, and Klose says a lot about the situation. These guys are trying to get Lukas to realize something and it does not seem like it is working.
Raider (1996-2007) - A very lovable cat that I will miss dearly.
tracylynn
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1362
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 5:54 pm
Location: Springfield, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time

PreviousNext

Return to Bayern Player & Staff Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Evan van Essen, peenu and 9 guests

cron