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Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby MaCk0y » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:56 pm

Starke >>> Ulreich almost = Neuer. :)
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby Achilles » Tue Feb 27, 2018 2:07 pm

prasun77 wrote:Attackers-James and Lewandowski compensate for Robben and Ribery as far as flair and talent is concerned. Coman brings the pace required and is much better than Shaqiri. Lewandowski and Mandzukic can't even be mentioned in the same sentence. Muller has declined a bit but is slowly regaining his form.
Wagner compensates for Gomez. He makes up with passion and love for the club what he lacks in ability when compared with Gomez.
Only thing you cam say is Lahm was better than Kimmich and also a better captain than Neuer. That Robben was better than This Robben and same for Ribery but that's not enough.
So yes our current squad is DEFINITELY better.

Coman is nothing compared to anybody in that attacking line, Shaqiri was super that year look at his stats and search some videos, he did miracles in the Pokal and he was massive when he was subbed in or started for rotational roles. Wagner? :lol: Gomez and Pizzaro were five class above let alone Mandzukic who was at his peak and over performed for a whole season. The Robbery duo at his peak is not only better than current Robbery which is half-dead but better than any previous or current attacking line duo in the world. Just to remind you the level Ribery reached winning all individual trophies except Ballon D'Or(which almost everyone said he should won it) do we have another player in that status now? No! That Vidal-Schweini comparison is unbearable for me, I won't discuss it at all.

Only Lewy & Hummels can break into that starting line-up and nobody else from our current squad. The bench though of the current squad is better by miles. Please, take back what you said about Vidal-Schweini it's almost a blasphemy :oops:
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby aterford » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:08 pm

Bayern fans when they see Jupp say 17/18 Bayern is better than 12/13......

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Do I agree with Jupp because he's always right??? Or do I disagree with Jupp, 12/13 was better, thus making Heynckes wrong about something?!?
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby IsiahRashad » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:22 pm

Heynckes' current Bayern crop are shaping up to be the best – statistically and man for man - in the club history.

In Neuer, we have the best goalkeeper ever to have played the game and conceivably the most reliable understudy in Sven Ulreich.World Cup winners Boateng and Hummels rank as two of the world's very best centre-backs, with Süle a genuine alternative for a coach who knows exactly when and how to tinker. We have the best full-backs in the world - Kimmich and Alaba – although Rafinha gets top marks for effort and application - while Bayern's midfield is stocked to the rafters with match-winners: Thiago,Martinez,Tolisso,Vidal and Rudy.

At the age of 34, Robben still can make difference,Ribery can be usefull in some games. Coman is growing into world-class after every game. No one has figured out how to mark Müller,when he's in form.James is a top 3 on the N10 position in the World; Lewandowski cannot stop scoring; and Wagner is very good as a plan B striker.

What is more, only five of the aforementioned outfield players - Rafinha, Ribery, Robben, Vidal and Wagner - are aged 30 or over.

After the James transfer i said that for me this is the best Bayern squad for me.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby aterford » Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:41 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:Heynckes' current Bayern crop are shaping up to be the best – statistically and man for man - in the club history.

In Neuer, we have the best goalkeeper ever to have played the game and conceivably the most reliable understudy in Sven Ulreich.World Cup winners Boateng and Hummels rank as two of the world's very best centre-backs, with Süle a genuine alternative for a coach who knows exactly when and how to tinker. We have the best full-backs in the world - Kimmich and Alaba – although Rafinha gets top marks for effort and application - while Bayern's midfield is stocked to the rafters with match-winners: Thiago,Martinez,Tolisso,Vidal and Rudy.

At the age of 34, Robben still can make difference,Ribery can be usefull in some games. Coman is growing into world-class after every game. No one has figured out how to mark Müller,when he's in form.James is a top 3 on the N10 position in the World; Lewandowski cannot stop scoring; and Wagner is very good as a plan B striker.

What is more, only five of the aforementioned outfield players - Rafinha, Ribery, Robben, Vidal and Wagner - are aged 30 or over.

After the James transfer i said that for me this is the best Bayern squad for me.


Yup. In its current state? 12/13 is better.
If everyone healthy and in form? I'd bet on this current squad.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby MUTU » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:03 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:As I've said before, our squad is better, our starting lineup is not.

Is it? This is the bench for the 2013 Champions League final:

Starke (better than he is now)
Van Buyten (IMO Suele is a DvB clone, without the latter's experience)
Shaqiri (he'd probably be in the starting XI as LW in today's formation)
Gustavo (comparable to Vidal and IMO much superior to Rudy)
Tymoshchuk (comparable to Rudy)
Pizarro (comparable to Wagner but with more experience)
Gomez (in his 2013 form, he'd be rotating with Lewandowski)

And let's not forget Kroos out injured.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby MUTU » Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:11 pm

If I could make a CL final lineup with the players available from 2013 and the players available today, here would be my formation and bench:

2013 Neuer - 2013 Lahm, 2013 Dante, 2018 Hummels, 2013 Alaba - 2013 Martinez, 2013 Schweinsteiger - 2013 Robben, 2013 Mueller,
2013 Ribery - 2013 Gomez



Bench:
2018 Ulreich
2018 Kimmich
2013 Boateng
2018 Thiago
2018 James
2018 Mueller
2018 Lewandowski

That's 10 players in the XI and one on the bench from 2013 (total 11)
And 1 player in the XI and 6 on the bench from 2018 (total 7)
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby prasun77 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:02 pm

Achilles wrote:Please, take back what you said about Vidal-Schweini it's almost a blasphemy :oops:


Please don't overrate schweinsteiger..he was a very good player no doubt but he was neither as big a goal threat as vidal or as aggressive as vidal and defensively also vidal is better. So please only in passing you can say Schweinsteiger was better in some aspects. This overhyping homegrown players and getting at the back of those we have acquired is something I can't tolerate.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:47 pm

I would only bench Mandzukic for Lewandowski



----------------Neuer----------------
Lahm------Boateng---Dante--------Alaba
---------Martinez--Schweinsteiger-------
Robben----------Mueller-----------Ribery
-------------Lewandowski---------------

Hummels might be better than Dante, but 2012/2013 Dante was a BEAST.



It's not only about the quality of the players, but also the chemistry, hunger for trophies, perfectly balanced team, relatively low injury rate, almost everyone was at their peak...


This current team doesn't come even close IMO.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:54 pm

MUTU wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:As I've said before, our squad is better, our starting lineup is not.

Is it? This is the bench for the 2013 Champions League final:

Starke (better than he is now)
Van Buyten (IMO Suele is a DvB clone, without the latter's experience)
Shaqiri (he'd probably be in the starting XI as LW in today's formation)
Gustavo (comparable to Vidal and IMO much superior to Rudy)
Tymoshchuk (comparable to Rudy)
Pizarro (comparable to Wagner but with more experience)
Gomez (in his 2013 form, he'd be rotating with Lewandowski)

And let's not forget Kroos out injured.

Maybe we just rate those players differently. I agree with you on Gustavo and Gomez, definitely, and maybe Pizarro.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby MUTU » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:55 pm

prasun77 wrote:
Achilles wrote:Please, take back what you said about Vidal-Schweini it's almost a blasphemy :oops:


Please don't overrate schweinsteiger..he was a very good player no doubt but he was neither as big a goal threat as vidal or as aggressive as vidal and defensively also vidal is better. So please only in passing you can say Schweinsteiger was better in some aspects. This overhyping homegrown players and getting at the back of those we have acquired is something I can't tolerate.

Schweinsteiger had better leadership and presence, better teamwork, better vision, chemistry with every player on the pitch, didn't often lose his head and get sent off.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby MUTU » Tue Feb 27, 2018 6:56 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:As I've said before, our squad is better, our starting lineup is not.

Is it? This is the bench for the 2013 Champions League final:

Starke (better than he is now)
Van Buyten (IMO Suele is a DvB clone, without the latter's experience)
Shaqiri (he'd probably be in the starting XI as LW in today's formation)
Gustavo (comparable to Vidal and IMO much superior to Rudy)
Tymoshchuk (comparable to Rudy)
Pizarro (comparable to Wagner but with more experience)
Gomez (in his 2013 form, he'd be rotating with Lewandowski)

And let's not forget Kroos out injured.

Maybe we just rate those players differently. I agree with you on Gustavo and Gomez, definitely, and maybe Pizarro.

What, so you think 2018 Starke is better than 2013 Starke? :mrgreen:
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby aterford » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:04 pm

MUTU wrote:
prasun77 wrote:
Achilles wrote:Please, take back what you said about Vidal-Schweini it's almost a blasphemy :oops:


Please don't overrate schweinsteiger..he was a very good player no doubt but he was neither as big a goal threat as vidal or as aggressive as vidal and defensively also vidal is better. So please only in passing you can say Schweinsteiger was better in some aspects. This overhyping homegrown players and getting at the back of those we have acquired is something I can't tolerate.

Schweinsteiger had better leadership and presence, better teamwork, better vision, chemistry with every player on the pitch, didn't often lose his head and get sent off.



To his credit - while he certainly has a knack for playing "on the edge" - Vidal actually rarely gets sent off. 5 sending offs in his career...2 for Schweini. Obviously it's more but Vidal isn't really the red-card risk he's often talked up to be.
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:17 pm

MUTU wrote:What, so you think 2018 Starke is better than 2013 Starke?

No, but he is now 3rd choice. :P

Let's do a fuller list. I'm going to take the CL final lineup and our lineup vs Besiktas (with Neuer instead of Ulreich) as our current starting lineups.

GK bench:
Ulreich > 2013 Starke
2018 Starke > Raeder

DF bench:
Sule > Van Buyten (not counting Badstuber due to his injury. He was probably better than Martinez, who is available for both squads).
Rafinha = Rafinha (not sure when he was better)
Bernat > Contento

MF bench:
2018 Ribery > Shaqiri
2018 Robben < Kroos (not a direct comparison but he seems to be the most comparable. I rate Kroos is better than James too, who is in the starting lineup. However, 2018 Robben > Weiser)
Tolisso < Gustavo
Rudy ≥ Tymoschuk

FW bench:
Wagner < Gomez
no one < Pizarro
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Re: Jupp Heynckes [Josef Heynckes]

Postby MUTU » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:31 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:What, so you think 2018 Starke is better than 2013 Starke?

No, but he is now 3rd choice. :P

When comparing 2013 to 2018, I'm not including injured players, hence no Kroos, no Badstuber, no Neuer and no Coman. As things stand, Starke is second choice and sits on the bench ready to come on and play if something happens to the first keeper, just as he was in 2013.

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I'm going to take the CL final lineup and our lineup vs Besiktas (with Neuer instead of Ulreich)

Again, you're cheating. Imagine if the CL final is played today. You can't play Neuer, and you can't play Coman.

so, GK bench:
2013 Starke > 2018 Starke
2013 Raeder > 2018 Fruechtl

Where I disagreed:
Van Buyten for me > Suele. I would trust him more in a CL final than Suele, simply because of the experience, nothing more.
2013 Shaqiri >>> 2018 Ribery. 2013 Shaqiri was so good he gave 2013 Ribery a run for his money. In fact, during the 2012/13 Champions League he scored and assisted as many goals as Ribery, with a quarter of the playing time of Ribery. IMO 2013 Shaqiri would start for Bayern even if Coman wasn't injured.
2013 Tymoshchuk > 2018 Rudy, again through experience.
2013 Pizarro >>>>>>>>>>>> 2018 Wriedt :lol:
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