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Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby rthebest » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:39 pm

pyrasur wrote:True. Differences of opinion can exist, but the Bayern fanbase on this forum being divided and accusing each other is exactly what others want to see. Some see MW as at fault, others Guardiola, whatever. Have your opinion, but the club should be unified not at each others throats. To say MW and the medical staff has not done a great job this season is not disrespectful of his past 40 years of service.


I agree with you. well said
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby FCB general » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:45 pm

pyrasur wrote:Don't understand what you said here sorry. Before you get upset, the English is just bad. I think you are implying Rummenigge backstabbed Hoeneß here, which to me is actually kind of messed up.

No reason at all to be upset, it's just they aren't the same in the eyes of Dortmund. When Uli was the boss, relationship between Bayern-Dortmund was more than just fine. When Uli went to prison and Rummenigge took over his leading spot in our club, poison darts and tough words started flying in Bayern's direction.

BVB-Boss Watzke: "Ich vermisse Uli Hoeneß" [source]


Some few months before Rummenigge was often attacked by Watzke and Zorc, even Eberl had something to say about Bayern. Dortmund don't see Bayern in the same way before and after Uli's imprisonment.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RAJBAYERN » Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:58 pm

Very easy for Pep to blame others, instead of him. Applause yourself!. =D>
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:09 pm

Wow. So much hate against Pep and Rummenigge... Let's just wait and hope this works out well. The injuries have been truly baffling, maybe this will turn out good.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:41 pm

pyrasur wrote: To say MW and the medical staff has not done a great job this season is not disrespectful of his past 40 years of service.

No, that's not disrespectful, although I don't think we have enough information for such an assessment. What's disrespectful and even damaging their reputation is painting MW's office as some kind of stoneage witchdoctor's tent where only unproven and ancient methods are used. Unfortunately the website is still down, but how is it possible as a Bayern fan that you've never heard that MW's office has performed surgeries on our players, or that they have used electrotherapy for treating Robben's muscle injuries - how are these medieval methods or homeopathy?

Maybe some of the fans outside Germany aren't aware that Müller-Wohlfahrt was part of FC Bayern's core identity. You just have to skim through the German media today for the reactions. Everywhere you can read commentaries how with the loss of MW Bayern have lost part of their identity. Look for the reactions of former players like Matthäus, Effenberg, or former managers like Hitzfeld. Everyone thinks its a big, big mistake. Look for Heynckes' statements how much he valued MW. It will give you an idea how important he was for the team, not just as a physician but also as a psychological support. Call it sentimental if you like, but he was a very important member of the Bayern family and the much famed "mia san mia". It's just not right for such a relationship to end like this.
Last edited by RedQueen on Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:51 pm

From Feb 1900 till Jun 2013 - mia san mia
as from Jul 2013 to date mia san Pep

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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RAJBAYERN » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:03 pm

Guys, no one fire Wohlfahrt, he just quit and is not the first time he does it. Do not exaggerate, a doctor with 72 years old would retire soon.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RAJBAYERN » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:04 pm

ramsej84 wrote:From Feb 1900 till Jun 2013 - mia san mia
as from Jul 2013 to date mia san Pep

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Jaja, good one ramsej, but we had also Mia San Magath, Mia San Klinsmann and Mia San Van Gaal and those 3 were worst than this one. :lol:
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:24 pm

RedQueen wrote:
pyrasur wrote: To say MW and the medical staff has not done a great job this season is not disrespectful of his past 40 years of service.

No, that's not disrespectful, although I don't think we have enough information for such an assessment. What's disrespectful and even damaging their reputation is painting MW's office as some kind of stoneage witchdoctor's tent where only unproven and ancient methods are used. Unfortunately the website is still down, but how is it possible as a Bayern fan that you've never heard that MW's office had surgeries performed on our players, or that they have used electrotherapy for treating Robben's muscle injuries - how are these medieval methods or homeopathy?

Maybe some of the fans outside Germany aren't aware that Müller-Wohlfahrt was part of FC Bayern's core identity. You just have to skim through the German media today for the reactions. Everywhere you can read commentaries how with the loss of MW Bayern have lost part of their identity. Look for the reactions of former players like Matthäus, Effenberg, or former managers like Hitzfeld. Everyone thinks its a big, big mistake. Look for Heynckes' statements how much he valued MW. It will give you an idea how important he was for the team, not just as a physician but also as a psychological support. Call it sentimental if you like, but he was a very important member of the Bayern family and the much famed "mia san mia". It's just not right for such a relationship to end like this.


Okay, let's set aside the homeopathy thing. I agree that doctor-patient trust is very important.

The main thing that actually annoys me about this whole situation about the whole thing is what caused the rift between him and Pep in the first place. I've already posted on this topic before/elsewhere. Of course with the whole on-site medical care thing, where Dr. MWH said that his time and the time of his assistants is too important for such things. Basically he's too big for Bayern. And it very well may be because he's a celebrity doctor that will have to work with Bayern, the NT, celebrities and other clientele.

The thing is, while people are claiming that Pep is pretending to be bigger than the club, or that Kalle or Sammer is, they're giving their all to the club, just like the players. When Bayern lose a game, they're the ones that get the shit from the media and fans. For MWH, he can't always even be at the games, like the one where Benatia was injured; he's too big for the club.

Other big clubs have full on site medical staff, is it really unrealistic for Pep to ask for that? It's not like he's asking for something unusual or something for himself. It took MWH how long to acquiesce just to let his son be present? Clubs like Chelsea have it even for their U-19's. Apparently Real Madrid have an on-site clinic. Maybe if our situation was working, then maybe.

But it's not. We can say that MWH is the best or one of the best out there, and maybe he is, but our injury records don't show that. The last time we had a full squad was for one game in Dec 2011. In the last 8 seasons, we've had a full squad exactly 7 times out of almost 272 games, while for comparison, Barca: 21, Real Madrid: 67, Chelsea: 68, Leverkusen: 29, Arsenal: 14. At that point, can we honestly say that it's working or that he's the best for us?

Like we can't just send a player out of training 30 mins away for every little thing. Especially with Bayern players, who get fouled and kicked at every opportunity to break up our play and are probably often suffering minor injuries. Sometimes these minor knocks can get aggravated and become severe but it might have been prevented with more accessible help.

I mean Lahm just breaks his ankle whilst standing around in training? Ok.

I don't understand how Leverkusen can run and press for 90 minutes or Chelsea can field the same XI week in week out with much less injuries than us. MW should be important but he shouldn't be a sacred cow, either and if he's not giving his 100% to the club, we should reconsider his importance to us.

The worst thing about this mess is how bitter it became for all parties involved and with so much vitriol spewed. I think that all things considered about the medical help under MW, maybe it was for the best. This can be a great opportunity for Bayern, even. Maybe not someone as highly regarded by some as MW, but someone who is good and can give our players the undivided attention they need. It might be best if we had a new medical team and only consulted him for extenuating cases, if we can unburn this bridge somewhat.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Reinhart » Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:00 pm

The situation definitely could have been handled better but we don't know the inner workings at FC Bayern any more than the next fan so all we can do is speculate. I rather not speculate and wait until things clear up, if the next medical team does a better job then I think it's all for the best and what occurred could be looked at as a pleasant surprise. To be honest, FC Bayern suffers too many injuries and I don't know if that's just plain bad luck or because of ineptitude.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:34 pm

RAJBAYERN wrote:Guys, no one fire Wohlfahrt, he just quit and is not the first time he does it. Do not exaggerate, a doctor with 72 years old would retire soon.

I've been thinking about this. To me the fact that he had also jumped ship in the past says a lot about his character when people disagree with him. Pep might be a difficult character but MW isn't coming off as an angel either.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby bigdrop » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:30 am

I believe the doctor leaving is a far more important event than anyone seems to realize. For decades he has been acknowledged as a primary source of Bayern's success. Even Robben is said to have remained with Bayern in part because of him. If it is true that Pep is the reason that he has left then I believe that Pep's time is limited. If Bayern do not move forward next week in the CL then Pep will be gone.

The person we need from Dortmund is Klopp.

Wonder what Uli thinks about all this?
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby bigdrop » Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:47 am

What exactly is the criticism of the medical staff? That they will not put a player on the pitch until they feel he is ready? They will not rush rehabilitation? They will not sacrifice the possible health of an athlete for the club's game?
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Anna_French6 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:14 am

I am an American and new to European football, but I LOVE Bayern. I know "gar nichts" about the doctors and why so many injuries, but football players here sometimes play American football even with concussions and other serious injuries. Just shoot them up with pain-killers and put them back on the field. It is interesting to see the opposite problem with these doctors. After reading all the posts, I think I need to take some aspirin - maybe tranquilizers too - and get ready for next Tuesday. #-o
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Reinhart » Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:11 am

bigdrop wrote:What exactly is the criticism of the medical staff? That they will not put a player on the pitch until they feel he is ready? They will not rush rehabilitation? They will not sacrifice the possible health of an athlete for the club's game?


I am no expert but I think we can all agree that it would be irresponsible for any coach to put a player he knows is at risk of further injury out on the pitch. Chances are the player will put more strain on their body and not only will have to be taken off but face more time trying to recover. If I am interpreting Pep's reaction correctly then his sarcastic clap was because of the frustration arising from bad advice from the medical staff giving Benatia the go ahead to be in the Leverkusen game.
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