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Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:32 pm

Dalv wrote:That means you want this club to fail totally.

So you have a crystal ball, or how do you know what will happen in what scenario?

sws wrote:What if the new medical team is better? At this point, anything would be better after this season of injuries.

Even if he comes back in 2 years, do we really want to go back to a 75 year old doctor with antiquated, unproven methods?

I doubt it's on the medical team. And I don't think you actually understand how MW is working. First of all, he's one doctor out of four in his office. They aren't all 72 years old. Second, he uses conventional treatment for the most part and only accompanies it in some cases with alternative methods. See, this is why I'm not discussing his medical merits here. People read two or three articles in a sports magazine and then think they know how MW is treating his patients and that they are qualified to pass judgment. A guy who only uses "antiquated, unproven methods" doesn't have an MRT in his office, and he isn't considered world class by his peers. I find it downright ridiculous that you feel you can judge his medical merits based on ESPN articles most likely written by medical laymen who haven't even once been in the office of that man.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Machiavellico » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:35 pm

This resignation is comparable to what's happening to the big clubs and their legends nowadays.
While the past shouldn't decide the present, you can't really overlook it and treat someone who's done so much for the team for such a long time like they're nothing. If the staff weren't pleased with MW's services anymore, they should've waited for the end of the season and handle things quietly. Could've named a new head for the medical team then and perhaps keep MW as a consultant. But this way the staff's image(and implicitly the club's) suffered.

It' was a lack of tact.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:39 pm

And one other thing. You can claim MW's got some sort of guru status with Bayern. But he's also the team doctor of the German national team. He was with the team in Brazil. We aren't a third world country, and the DFB isn't stupid. They have experts who are capable of passing judgment, and they'd have plenty of other options to choose from if they thought he wasn't competent.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Korab » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:42 pm

Could anybody explain to me what MW was blamed for? Players too early on the field, too late, treatment causing damages, treatment not working or whatever it was?
Obviously the whole medical staff was on the side of MW by resigning en mass, nobody wanted to use the situation and jump into his shoes? Strange, somebody at Bayern is very difficult to work with.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:43 pm

Machiavellico wrote:This resignation is comparable to what's happening to the big clubs and their legends nowadays.
While the past shouldn't decide the present, you can't really overlook it and treat someone who's done so much for the team for such a long time like they're nothing. If the staff weren't pleased with MW's services anymore, they should've waited for the end of the season and handle things quietly. Could've named a new head for the medical team then and perhaps keep MW as a consultant. But this way the staff's image(and implicitly the club's) suffered.

It' was a lack of tact.


What? It's not like the club sacked him. He didn't even tell the club before he went to the media and quit..
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Machiavellico » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:48 pm

sws wrote:
Machiavellico wrote:This resignation is comparable to what's happening to the big clubs and their legends nowadays.
While the past shouldn't decide the present, you can't really overlook it and treat someone who's done so much for the team for such a long time like they're nothing. If the staff weren't pleased with MW's services anymore, they should've waited for the end of the season and handle things quietly. Could've named a new head for the medical team then and perhaps keep MW as a consultant. But this way the staff's image(and implicitly the club's) suffered.

It' was a lack of tact.


What? It's not like the club sacked him. He didn't even tell the club before he went to the media and quit..


No, but blaming him the way they did is not how professionals act at this level.
Last edited by Machiavellico on Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:48 pm

RedQueen wrote:
Dalv wrote:That means you want this club to fail totally.

So you have a crystal ball, or how do you know what will happen in what scenario?

sws wrote:What if the new medical team is better? At this point, anything would be better after this season of injuries.

Even if he comes back in 2 years, do we really want to go back to a 75 year old doctor with antiquated, unproven methods?

I doubt it's on the medical team. And I don't think you actually understand how MW is working. First of all, he's one doctor out of four in his office. They aren't all 72 years old. Second, he uses conventional treatment for the most part and only accompanies it in some cases with alternative methods. See, this is why I'm not discussing his medical merits here. People read two or three articles in a sports magazine and then think they know how MW is treating his patients and that they are qualified to pass judgment. A guy who only uses "antiquated, unproven methods" doesn't have an MRT in his office, and he isn't considered world class by his peers. I find it downright ridiculous that you feel you can judge his medical merits based on ESPN articles most likely written by medical laymen who haven't even once been in the office of that man.


Apparently, he solely relies on homeopathy. If you could link me to a source that says/shows otherwise, I'd appreciate it.

The thing is that he's been openly and publicly criticized for his practices not being scientifically sound. They're not controversial for no reason, either. Not only that but he openly admits that he doesn't know exactly how his own methods work and that it's not peer-reviewed or backed empirically.

Sorry, but I find it ridiculous that we're using anecdotal advice from celebrities to back him, instead of scientific evidence. That's it.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby The Black Cleaver » Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:56 pm

This was Pep's reaction to doctor Wohlfahrt when Benatia got injured

Can't see tweet? Click here!
Last edited by The Black Cleaver on Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby RedQueen » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:09 pm

sws wrote:Apparently, he solely relies on homeopathy. If you could link me to a source that says/shows otherwise, I'd appreciate it.

Of course he DOESN'T solely rely on homeopathy! Since when is Magnetic resonance imaging a homoepathic method? Now I'm getting really angry! How stupid do you think the DFB is? Do you think they'd take a guy to Brazil who only treats his patients homeophatically?

You want to know what methods he uses? How about visiting his website?

http://www.mw-oc.de/

It has gone down at the moment, which isn't that surprising, but you can always go there later.

The thing is that he's been openly and publicly criticized for his practices not being scientifically sound.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe professional rivalry may play a part in this?

Sorry, but I find it ridiculous that we're using anecdotal advice from celebrities to back him, instead of scientific evidence. That's it.

And I find it ridiculous to pass judgment on a worldwide renowned doctor based on ESPN articles.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby quaazi » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:20 pm

RedQueen wrote:Since when is Magnetic resonance imaging a homoepathic method?

MRI is a diagnostic method, which is irrelevant when discussing treatment.
The ideal team

--------Müller with gloves--------
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-------Müller---------Müller-------
----Müller----Müller----Müller----
---------------Müller---------------
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby sws » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:22 pm

RedQueen wrote:
sws wrote:Apparently, he solely relies on homeopathy. If you could link me to a source that says/shows otherwise, I'd appreciate it.

Of course he DOESN'T solely rely on homeopathy! Since when is Magnetic resonance imaging a homoepathic method? Now I'm getting really angry! How stupid do you think the DFB is? Do you think they'd take a guy to Brazil who only treats his patients homeophatically?

You want to know what methods he uses? How about visiting his website?

http://www.mw-oc.de/

It has gone down at the moment, which isn't that surprising, but you can always go there later.

The thing is that he's been openly and publicly criticized for his practices not being scientifically sound.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe professional rivalry may play a part in this?

Sorry, but I find it ridiculous that we're using anecdotal advice from celebrities to back him, instead of scientific evidence. That's it.

And I find it ridiculous to pass judgment on a worldwide renowned doctor based on ESPN articles.


I'm not passing judgement based on an ESPN article. Again, if he himself says that he doesn't know how his treatment works, that's where the red flags begin. I think questioning using unscientific methods are better than just blind faith. Just because he's been working for a while doesn't mean that he's not beyond questioning.

Anyways, lets see what happens next season without him. Maybe we should consult Leverkusen about how they can press and run all game and still have 0 injuries. I think the last time Bayern had 0 injuries was in like 2011.

Even ARSENAL have 0 injuries atm IIRC.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:39 pm

I'd like to point out that Alaba's new injury occurred while playing a stupid friendly with his N.T where a player fell over his knee...
I really have something that I am really looking for, the end of the season...
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby tflags » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:41 pm

quaazi wrote:
RedQueen wrote:Since when is Magnetic resonance imaging a homoepathic method?

MRI is a diagnostic method, which is irrelevant when discussing treatment.


Which uses a machine that is probably not available at Bayern's training facility making RedQueen's argument that players don't trust the teams in house doctor since they travel downtown incohesive.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Bayernbazi » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:42 pm

Dalv wrote:Yea right, RedQueen, please tell me why RM, Barca, Chelsea etc dont have such injury crisis if we had "the best med staff in the world". Oh, that's right, it's because they actually have a professional medical team.


I think I know the reason for Chelsea's lack of injury crisis......its because they have blind trust and good personal relationship with their doctor . The others I don't know :lol:

On a more serious note...Let's not forget the highly marketed Dubai training camp during the winter break, instead of focusing the things that count and that was neither Pep's nor the HWMW's fault. In my opinion, this bust up could have been handled better by the management.

...at this stage I think we cannot really do anything but just wait and see. Although I see him as a great coach I have never been one who has been completely blinded by the Pep shine and had posted this under his thread last May after the Real Madrid drubbing. I see this as another major operation to the team and so far I don't see any signs that we are continuing the dominance on the European stage

Bayernbazi wrote:
MUTU wrote:so either we stick with his ideas or else we fire him


my worry, is that since the club cannot judge him on just 1 failure, he will stay, but he will tinker with the team so much that we will loose core players. if he is eventually fired then the damage would be extensive. Only time will tell but God forbid we end up in this situation where a Spanish coach broke the team when it had started standing up to the Spanish teams dominance.
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Re: Hans-Wilhelm Müller-Wohlfahrt

Postby Machiavellico » Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:43 pm

tflags wrote:
quaazi wrote:
RedQueen wrote:Since when is Magnetic resonance imaging a homoepathic method?

MRI is a diagnostic method, which is irrelevant when discussing treatment.


Which uses a machine that is probably not available at Bayern's training facility making RedQueen's argument that players don't trust the teams in house doctor since they travel downtown incohesive.


Wasn't his son the doctor which assisted on MW's behalf at Bayern's daily activities?
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