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World News Thread

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Re: World News Thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:53 pm

Kovac OUT!!!
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Re: World News Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:56 pm

Talk about tone deaf
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Re: World News Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:28 pm

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: World News Thread

Postby Paphlagonian » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:26 pm

Fénix wrote:This is a case where violence and hate only created another violence and hate. It can be marked as an isolated case, but the problem didn't start yesterday or in the last 4-5 years ago, but 17-18 years ago, so it's not an isolated case.
As always, innocent and ordinary people paid the biggest price, nothing is going to change except the hatred will keep increasing further because that is someone's interest and Western politicians are going to their best to keep that on track.
I don't need terrorism, foreigners, people from other civilizations and cultures to see how hatred, bitterness, frustrations, violence, murders can't stop increasing in media, TV, public life, social and political space... Every day is getting worse and the only line that hasn't been crossed is using assassination, murder as a solution of problems.
You can't fight and beat terrorism if you have terrorist states who are openly feeding and supporting this sort of creatures for decades and who are recognized as human rights champs, even role models in the UN. :|


Now... Let's make it 500 years and we will be on common ground. This is definitely didn't start with War on Terror, 9/11 or War in Afghanistan or Iraq. It all started with European's power partitions of Middle-East. Take Sykes-Picot abomination to the hand. In Europe borders are mostly natural this is why people can move on with their lives because most of them are democracies and respect others but in Middle-East that's another story. So one group forces it life vision to another group and because of this the fights start.

Now why Middle-East so fcked up is simply low income/wealth, the lack of education (which comes with wealth). Most of the Western world survived this by exploiting other countries "by colonizing them". However Middle-East can't survive this because there is not enough wealth to spend. People with no hope can grab onto anything which totally includes extremism.
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Re: World News Thread

Postby America USA » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:59 am

I’ve been quiet on this issue because it’s a really sensitive topic. Also I don’t really want to talk too much on this matter because I don’t want to get banned however the post above mine makes a point about colonialism and things done 5 centuries ago.

I’d just like to counter Paphlagonian’s opinion with two historical facts.
1. Japan had the shit beaten out of them by the Allied forces and got nuked into oblivion. They got occupied after that for some time as well. However, the Japanese worked hard and learned from past mistakes. Today Japan is one of the most advanced country and a largely peaceful and safe place. Same can be said of Germany where after defeat in WW2 immense atrocities were committed in revenge by the Allies (Russians raping German women, Americans/Brits shooting random Germans and the harsh sanctions/treaties imposed on Germany post war) and the nation was also partitioned. I do agree the Middle Eastern wars were wrong and the Western powers should’ve never interfered with the rulings of Arab countries and tried to impose Democracy. It was a very bad idea because dictators like Saddam and Gaddafi, although ruling with an iron fist, were keeping the religious fanaticism of the populace in check and largely limited to their respective countries. The United States should stop trying to play the policemen and must stop invading the Middle east and pull out of there ASAP.
However, the actions of greedy politicians to invade the ME and wage war does not justify countless acts of terrorism committed against innocent civilians since then by radical Muslims seeking vengeance. Two wrongs do not make a right.

2. If we are talking about going back hundreds of years then well I guess Hindus and Sikhs in India should start massacring Muslims indiscriminately in view of the barbaric and inhuman acts perpetrated on millions of Hindus/Sikhs over the centuries under Islamic rule where Sikh religious leaders were assassinated by Muslim rulers, hundreds of temples were destroyed by intolerant fanatics and Mosques built on the rubble of the razed temples, countless infidel women taken as concubines and sex slaves, Non-Muslims were made to pay a religious tax (Jizya) just for following a different religion. However, as I said two wrongs don’t make a right and historical persecution would never be a justifiable reason for Hindus and Sikhs to start killing Modern day Muslims.

History is filled with bloodshed and both Christianity as well as Islam have bloody hands in that regard. The Crusades were a defensive action of Europeans against the Muslims who wanted to conquer. Muhammad, who sadly is referred to as the ideal man according to your scriptures, was a morally repugnant person who had numerous wives and mistresses (some of them taken forcefully) and who waged war on unbelievers during his lifetime something that his followers sadly emulated by conquests in Persia, India, Africa and Europe.

Please refrain from bringing selective history from centuries ago to highlight the plight of one group while sweeping the atrocities commited by said group under the rug so as to play the victim.

Condolences to the families of those who were killed in this senseless act of violence today.

P.S. I did not plan on commenting on this mass shooting but Paphalagonian’s bizarre response made it impossible for me to not counter what seemed like justification for Islamic extremism. I will post no more on this topic and if anyone wants to discuss then PM me.
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Re: World News Thread

Postby r10 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 11:49 am

Paphlagonian wrote:Middle-East can't survive this because there is not enough wealth to spend.
Surely I forgot how poor are those Saudi Arabias, Qatars, Kuweits, Bahrains, Iraqs, Irans, Libyas, ... Less Bentleys and football clubs please, but build more schools and hospitals in Jemen, Liban, Jordania, Palestine State, Egypt, Algeria, Ethiopia, etc.
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Re: World News Thread

Postby Paphlagonian » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:02 pm

America USA wrote: 1. Japan had the shit beaten out of them by the Allied forces and got nuked into oblivion. They got occupied after that for some time as well. However, the Japanese worked hard and learned from past mistakes. Today Japan is one of the most advanced country and a largely peaceful and safe place. Same can be said of Germany where after defeat in WW2 immense atrocities were committed in revenge by the Allies (Russians raping German women, Americans/Brits shooting random Germans and the harsh sanctions/treaties imposed on Germany post war) and the nation was also partitioned. I do agree the Middle Eastern wars were wrong and the Western powers should’ve never interfered with the rulings of Arab countries and tried to impose Democracy. It was a very bad idea because dictators like Saddam and Gaddafi, although ruling with an iron fist, were keeping the religious fanaticism of the populace in check and largely limited to their respective countries. The United States should stop trying to play the policemen and must stop invading the Middle east and pull out of there ASAP.
However, the actions of greedy politicians to invade the ME and wage war does not justify countless acts of terrorism committed against innocent civilians since then by radical Muslims seeking vengeance. Two wrongs do not make a right.


First of all Japan & Germany didn't rebuild themselves alone. Things like "Marshall Plan" happened. USA helped a lot to build these two just like South Korea because they are the buffer zone for future Soviet Era war. Allies had actually great ideas to divide Germany and Japan but in the end they decided it was actually better keeping these countries as buffer zone against future Communist threat because as you might know low income class more prone to accept Communism so they kinda forced to fix economies of both Japan and Germany. Same thing happen to Poland, Baltic countries etc. today. NATO uses these as buffer zones against Russia just like "Turkey" too. I'm not saying German and Japanese people didn't work hard to get where they are now. They did! But there are tons of other factors for these fast recoveries. This is why they are not comparable to ME countries. Nobody really helped to the Middle-East (they are not forced to do anyways). So they still have no economy (to the public not dictators) Just like Africa it has been exploited for it's natural sources. Still to this day region getting exploited. Trust me that War on Terror is just cover-up the real deal was the resources of ME.

America USA wrote: 2. If we are talking about going back hundreds of years then well I guess Hindus and Sikhs in India should start massacring Muslims indiscriminately in view of the barbaric and inhuman acts perpetrated on millions of Hindus/Sikhs over the centuries under Islamic rule where Sikh religious leaders were assassinated by Muslim rulers, hundreds of temples were destroyed by intolerant fanatics and Mosques built on the rubble of the razed temples, countless infidel women taken as concubines and sex slaves, Non-Muslims were made to pay a religious tax (Jizya) just for following a different religion. However, as I said two wrongs don’t make a right and historical persecution would never be a justifiable reason for Hindus and Sikhs to start killing Modern day Muslims.


That's my point actually even though I might have failed to point it out in the end. It's total nonsense saying this happened because of this. Reactions do happen but that doesn't justify massacre of innocent people whether it is ISIS-like or white supremacist. If this dude killed bunch of ISIS dudes I wouldn't even look at the topic twice. Because you know it would be good riddance.

America USA wrote: Muhammad, who sadly is referred to as the ideal man according to your scriptures, was a morally repugnant person who had numerous wives and mistresses (some of them taken forcefully) and who waged war on unbelievers during his lifetime something that his followers sadly emulated by conquests in Persia, India, Africa and Europe.


Too much bias/hatred/ignorance in few sentences. That's actually must be an achievement or something. Congrats.

Let me fix it for you. History of mankind is full of bloodshedding not because of Islam or Christianity but pure Human nature. Do you think Atheists are innocent? lol. Stalin, Mao, Pol etc. About our prophet Mohammad you have no idea about him at all. Bring your "ACTUAL" claims about him and I'll be happy to refute them easily.

Just in case Michael H. Hart didn't wrote my scripture. Not to mention US Supreme Court's decision about Mohammad. Yeah so immoral person he is lol. If I recall correctly you were a lawyer or something like that. Funny you didn't know this.

America USA wrote: Please refrain from bringing selective history from centuries ago to highlight the plight of one group while sweeping the atrocities commited by said group under the rug so as to play the victim.


Why would I defend ISIS or any other Islamic extremist? They disgust me. But if we play this gutter game of who's to blame then course I'd stick out the point where it all started for Islamic extremism which was the partition of Middle-East by Western powers. From that to... Hell, we can even go back 2 million years to start claiming who was the first defender or not hence pointless.

America USA wrote: P.S. I did not plan on commenting on this mass shooting but Paphalagonian’s bizarre response made it impossible for me to not counter what seemed like justification for Islamic extremism. I will post no more on this topic and if anyone wants to discuss then PM me.


This is the topic for this kind of talk. As long as you don't cross the boundaries you can point out any idea you have. I don't get why you are so skeptical about this.

r10 wrote:Surely I forgot how poor are those Saudi Arabias, Qatars, Kuweits, Bahrains, Iraqs, Irans, Libyas, ... Less Bentleys and football clubs please, but build more schools and hospitals in Jemen, Liban, Jordania, Palestine State, Egypt, Algeria, Ethiopia, etc.


Let's see how these countries rank in distribution of wealth. Since when Iraq, Libya, Iran tagged as rich countries? Just because their dictators of those city states enjoying the wealth doesn't mean it's equally shared amongst ME.
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Re: World News Thread

Postby America USA » Sat Mar 16, 2019 1:40 pm

I have read enough verses from the Koran which can be taken out of context pretty easily when read by a layperson. As agonostic myself I could care less about what is stated in that book but some poor muslim might use that as a justification for why he’s having a shit life and decide to go beserk.

Re: Muhammad. You’re a muslim so I don’t expect a lack of “bias” from yourself either on this subject :roll:
However, I have read enough to form an informed opinion regarding that persons’ moral character. Muhammad might have been a man of his time but trying to emulate his deeds in the 21st century is going to make a lot of men go radical. I don’t care how long ago he lived I simply cannot condone the morality of an old dude who decides to marry/fück a preteen girl. Also I’d expect the “Prophet of God” to not have so many wives and not conquer lands but to each his own I guess.

I know all religions brainwashes/indoctrinates its kids from a very young age as to what kind of a benevolent and ethical person their Savior was, so any charges of “bias” or accusations of “ignorance” that you level against me are pretty hypocritical because you yourself are coming from a place of bias and ignorance that has been planted in your subconscious since your childhood. I had no idea about Islam until the age of Eleven when 9/11 happened and I got to know more about your ideology/prophet at an age when the Super Ego (Freudian Theory of Psyche) is fully developed in humans and therefore I was able to learn about stuff in a more objective and less indoctrination kinda way.

Again what happened yesterday was a tragic event but please stop making excuses for the acts committed by Islamists in the name of “vengeance” and the same applies to Fénix as well.

BTW why isn’t that retard Sadiq Khan now reiterating his “terror attacks are part and parcel of living in major cities” bullshit?

Also relevant to this issue:
https://www.christianpost.com/news/120- ... ruary.html

https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/cwn/2019/m ... tal-attack
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Re: World News Thread

Postby Paphlagonian » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:09 pm

America USA wrote:I have read enough verses from the Koran.


Clearly you didn't because if you did you would have read these;

22/49: "Say: O mankind! I am only a plain warner unto you."
18/110: "Say: I am only a mortal like you. My Lord inspireth in me that your Allah is only One Allah. And whoever hopeth for the meeting with his Lord, let him do righteous work, and make none sharer of the worship due unto his Lord."

America USA wrote:I don’t care how long ago he lived I simply cannot condone the morality of an old dude who decides to marry/fück a preteen girl. Also I’d expect the “Prophet of God” to not have so many wives and not conquer lands but to each his own I guess.


Mohammad was just a messenger (last prophet and mere human) from Allah and nothing else. Your expectation of him to be living out of his lifetime's morals are clearly absurd and wrong. You could have a 10 wives who all aged 12 in England maybe 800 years ago. Does that make all of those people suddenly pedophile and immoral?! Just to be clear there were no "TEENS" back then. When you hit to puberty you were a wife material. Judging history based on your current morals again... Quite comical to be honest but again... Here's history 101 for you. About conquering lands; If you had a message to spread which you claim to be from God and people stopping you to spread that message you would fight too. It's 600 AD not 2000 AD where people communicate "ONLINE". Many prophets actually fought in different sizes of armies spread their messages but not gonna down that road much since your knowledge on Islam's history clearly lacking in many aspect. I suggest you read it on objective channels not christiantoday.com lol!

America USA wrote:I know all religions brainwashes/indoctrinates its kids from a very young age as to what kind of a benevolent and ethical person their Savior was, so any charges of “bias” or accusations of “ignorance” that you level against me are pretty hypocritical because you yourself are coming from a place of bias and ignorance that has been planted in your subconscious since your childhood. I had no idea about Islam until the age of Eleven when 9/11 happened and I got to know more about your ideology/prophet at an age when the Super Ego (Freudian Theory of Psyche) is fully developed in humans and therefore I was able to learn about stuff in a more objective and less indoctrination kinda way.


Again terrible assumption on your part. Just me being from Turkey doesn't make me insta-Muslim to a Muslim family. I become a Muslim after investing huge amount of research on this religion (before that both Christianity and Judaism) when I was 25 years old. Which happens to be roughly 4 years ago. So again no need to go deep on your false assumption which has literally zero factuality.

To be honest? Man... I don't blame you. You are far from the true face of Islam. You only know Islam because of Al-Quada, ISIS and 9/11 stuff. The only Koran you have read is the one God knows who translated into English. Try Pickthall. You probably eat lots of fake hadiths on your daily meals too which is not surprising.

Extra: I gotta say I agree blaming other is no help. What happened is happened. We need to look forward to improve our societies to make sure something like this never happens again. But from my experience not gonna happen.
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Re: World News Thread

Postby America USA » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:05 pm

Paphlagonian wrote:You could have a 10 wife who all aged 12 in England maybe 800 years ago. Does that make all of those people suddenly pedophile and immoral?! Just to be clear there were no "TEENS" back then. When you hit to puberty you were a wife material. Judging history based on your current morals again... Quite comical to be honest but again...

Yes I’m gonna judge anyone who’s had multiple spouses after the discovery of agriculture. Yes those English men you’re referring to are possibly pedophiles. HOWEVER, the big difference is that no religion is telling humans to emulate those Englishmen from a millennium ago. Islam explicitly refers to Muhammad as the “ideal man”

Those standards of morality are in no way compatible with the social mores of the 21st century and cannot in any way or shape whatsoever be deemed to be “ideal” for civilization in 2019.

Also, what’s with this Whataboutism/Tu quoque that many religious people practice to lessen the egregiousness of something wrong in their doctrine by diverting as if trying to say, “Well you know others did it too..” Is that supposed to make things better?

Also Re: your personal jibe about me having fake hadiths for meals. I’m agnostic and really don’t give af about what religion had to say. My issue with religion arises only when religious people try to shove their ideas down my throat. That’s why I have as big a beef with bible thumping Evangelicals ad I do with Islamists. My motto is live and let live and sadly the motto of the ultra religious is live and make others live as per your rules.

Also, I know all Abrahamic faiths have tremendous blood on their hands and Christianity was really ugly until the Enlightenment. However, for the most part Christians today are not following the footsteps of their Inquisition conducting predecessors and a non-christian can lead a pretty straightforward and simple life in a majority Christian nation/society. I cannot say the same for an Islamic one. Case in point: Please research the government sanctioned persecution of minority groups (mostly Hindus) in Bangladesh and the violence perpetrated against Christians in Egypt.

I like to place myself in the middle of all this. We know the punishment for Apostacy in Islam and I’m a Christian Apostate. My mother is super religious but still they accept my choice as an Agnostic person and haven’t tried to harm me nor disowned me. I cannot imagine being treated with the same kindness if I had been born in a Muslim household. Also, I once talked about my relation with an Arab girl here on this very forum (dig up my Post history and you’ll find it. I think it was the Besiktas match thread) and how the males in her family reacted to me. Again if this incident with that girl’s family and the cops had happened in an Islamic state, I’d probably be dead by now or rotting in a filthy prison cell.

And Re: your conversion to Islam at a later age in life. Well good for you but I can never imagine making that choice. Also, my bad for making the assumption that your were born a muslim and raised in an Islamic household.

Paphlagonian wrote:Extra: I gotta say I agree blaming other is no help. What happened is happened. We need to look forward to improve our societies to make sure something like this never happens again.

There I agree with you and I’d like to end this debate with you on that common note.
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Postby r10 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 8:05 pm

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Re: World News Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Mar 16, 2019 9:19 pm

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: World News Thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Mar 17, 2019 4:22 am

Jesus Christ didn't raise an army to spread his gospel. His "kingdom" was not of this world. That's a key difference with Islam which, from the get go, was simultaneously a religious, political, nationalistic and military ideology. Christianity, before it became a tool of political control during the late Roman Empire, was just a religious ideology. Not a political or military ideology.

Christianity does not actually prescribe any "law" applicable on Earth, unlike Islam. Jesus didn't prescribe any punishments on Earth for homosexuals or infidels, etc. Sinners get punished *in the afterlife*. Hence why Christianity is not a political ideology, unlike Islam which does prescribe specific punishments.

One may argue that the old testament does prescribe specific punishments and is, on the whole, a much crueller text, but the new testament actually overrules the old testament. This is a major source of noise, because the gods portrayed in both books are, IMO, irreconcilable. But, the fact is the new testament overrules the old one, so...

That is key because latter development in Christianity were a clear deviation from it's original precepts, unlike Islam. Peaceful Islam is the deviation, as militant Christianity is the deviation.

And I'm not even a fan of Christianity either, as I'm an atheist.

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Re: World News Thread

Postby Paphlagonian » Sun Mar 17, 2019 6:40 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:Jesus Christ didn't raise an army to spread his gospel.


Not didn't but couldn't.

PunkCapitalist wrote: Christianity does not actually prescribe any "law" applicable on Earth, unlike Islam. Jesus didn't prescribe any punishments on Earth for homosexuals or infidels, etc. Sinners get punished *in the afterlife*. Hence why Christianity is not a political ideology, unlike Islam which does prescribe specific punishments.


Because many Christians actually believe Jesus died for their sins. Just believe this and the whole Holy Trinity thing after the council of Nicea in AD 325 you will be saved whatever you do. On the other hand Islam describes how human should live according to the will of God. To be good or evil all depends of the judgement of God not humans. Hence there are strict rules about how a person should live, how a family should act, how a society should be formed according to the God. There is no punishment for being infidel or homosexual "unless you try to corrupt a Muslim society with it".

We Muslims believe 2/256: "There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower." This is why you can't force anybody to believe anything. Sadly almost all of the current "bad" image of Islam comes from Hadiths. Which is hearsays about Mohammad. Funny thing is hadith books compiled 200-300 years after Mohammad's death.

There is only one true source for halal(permissible) and haram(impermissible) in Islam which is the Quran. You can't kill somebody based on hadiths because there is literally no way you can prove hadiths are authentic. On the other hand Quran is still the same book after 1400 years ago. (Birmingham Manuscript, Topkapi Manuscripts etc) which includes 15/9: "Lo! We, even We, reveal the Reminder, and lo! We verily are its Guardian" God promises Quran and it's message to be protected but doesn't say hearsays about Mohammad will be guarded too. This is the whole idea of Islam "One book one community".

PunkCapitalist wrote:One may argue that the old testament does prescribe specific punishments and is, on the whole, a much crueller text, but the new testament actually overrules the old testament. This is a major source of noise, because the gods portrayed in both books are, IMO, irreconcilable. But, the fact is the new testament overrules the old one, so...


Old testament's God is kinda cruel (King James-31). New testament's God actually not fair (John 3:16) I'm not going to go in details and religion should deserve it's own section because it's too deep and long.

PunkCapitalist wrote: Peaceful Islam is the deviation, as militant Christianity is the deviation.


Islam is the religion of peace because as a person you find peace in your life. It's not a religion of Pacifism. It's a balance if you are bad you deserve bad if you are good then you deserve good. If something oppresses you then you have right to fight, if you have been treated unjust you have right to fight. If somebody blocks you to spread a message you have then you have to use force. This is what Byzantine and Sassanids did to Caliphate. Easy as that. That's what's fair in my mind.

Gotta say though. I don't believe there is not a "SINGLE" so called Muslim country acting according to Quran including "Saudi Arabia". There has been only one country though which was the Rashidun Caliphate. After the 4 caliphs Muslim world corrupted Islam and made up their own beliefs even though book is the same people still take it out of context to justify their agendas. If you objectively search about Islam you'd find that most of the actions of Muslims actually have nothing to do with Quran itself.

By all means I have no desire to convert anybody here. I'm just trying to clear things up because there is actually a campaign against Islam to demonize it. We are all humans and have intellects. If somebody decides not to believe then it's not up to me to argue with that. Which is 28/56: Lo! thou guidest not whom thou lovest, but Allah guideth whom He will. And He is Best Aware of those who walk aright.

So... Let's stay vigilant.
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Re: World News Thread

Postby America USA » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:17 am

Paphlagonian wrote:Islam is the religion of peace because as a person you find peace in your life. It's not a religion of Pacifism. It's a balance if you are bad you deserve bad if you are good then you deserve good. If something oppresses you then you have right to fight, if you have been treated unjust you have right to fight. If somebody blocks you to spread a message you have then you have to use force. This is what Byzantine and Sassanids did to Caliphate. Easy as that. That's what's fair in my mind.

Ok so if someone blocks my super religious mother fron spreading the message of Christ in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan or Indonesia then she is totally justified as per your rationale to use “force” to repeal those blocking her. Got it :thumbup:

Paphlagonian wrote:On the other hand Islam describes how human should live according to the will of God. To be good or evil all depends of the judgement of God not humans. Hence there are strict rules about how a person should live, how a family should act, how a society should be formed according to the God. There is no punishment for being infidel or homosexual "unless you try to corrupt a Muslim society with it".

Wait what? So my mother could be deemed to be “corrupting a Muslim society” by preaching about Christ and Christianity and branded an infidel and therefore be punished. However, I though you just said that it’s easily fair to use force when someone is blocking you from spreading a message?

Let’s keep this simple and straightforward:
If a Non-Muslim “blocks” a muslim from “spreading a message” then the Muslim can use force. It is fair.
If a Non-Muslim “tries to corrupt a Muslim society” with Anti Muslim teachings then he is to he punished.


So likewise: If a Muslim “blocks” a non-muslim from “spreading a message” then the Non-Muslim can use force. It is fair.
If a Muslims “tries to corrupt a Non-Muslim society” with Anti Non-Muslim teachings then he is to be punished.


However we all know that Muslims won’t be cool with the second proposition in Red and then you have the nerve to call others biased when you lot are so incredibly hypocritical.

It’s fair when we do it but no one else can do that or else we’ll throw a hissy fit. That’s how Islam comes across to me.

Case in point: A Muslim dude can marry, date or sleep with any Non-Muslim girl without having to convert to her religion/ideology. However, if a Non-Muslim man dares to court a Muslim lady without converting to Islam then all hell breaks loose and at best the Muslim girls’ family ostracizes the couple at worst the Non-Muslim guy is honor killed and the girl is forcefully married to someone who her family selects.

What an incredible double standard :clap:

Paphlagonian wrote:Not didn't but couldn't.

WTF is this supposed to mean? Jesus didn’t raise an army to spread his gospel simply because he could not?

For a group that claim to be outraged and offended by the slightest criticism you have just made a statement that many christians may find deeply offensive.

So you’re contending that the only reason Jesus did not raise his own army was simply because he could not do so? Ever thought he might not be a warmongering cultist and maybe Jesus was a pacifist instead and never felt the need nor desire to raise an army to spread his gospel? Maybe Jesus believed in the truth of his message and didn’t feel the insecurity to have an army to do his dirty work?

Your starting statement is completely baffling and possibly offensive to Christianity.

Paphlagonian wrote:Sadly almost all of the current "bad" image of Islam comes from Hadiths. Which is hearsays about Mohammad. Funny thing is hadith books compiled 200-300 years after Mohammad's death.

There is only one true source for halal(permissible) and haram(impermissible) in Islam which is the Quran. You can't kill somebody based on hadiths because there is literally no way you can prove hadiths are authentic.


So if the Koran is the only one true source of what is permissible and not permitted in Islam, then why don’t Muslim clerics just get rid of the corrupted hadiths that aren’t authentic and simply stop preaching the hadiths?

So the Muslim clerics who continue to preach these hadiths are directly culpable for spreading unauthentic/corrupted teachings and therefore the followers of Islam are themselves in a way responsible for the “misinterpretation of texts” because I don’t know of any Priests, Rabbis, Monks or Pandits who go around preaching the hadiths or lecture Mosques regarding the same.

Paphlagonian wrote:On the other hand Quran is still the same book after 1400 years ago.

You say that as if that’s very good? Don’t you think that the social mores, cultural norms and morality from that era could possibly be outdated in the 21st century world?

If you think that Planet Earth is still in the same 7th century timeframe then you’re not only wrong but also stupid and if you want the Earth to remain stuck in the 7th century then you’re beyond debate and reasoning.

Paphlagonian wrote:Islam is the religion of peace because as a person you find peace in your life.

Here we go again with this fallacious statement perpetuated by Dubya #-o

Islam literally means “Submission” in Arabic. So you find “peace in your life” by literally submitting to God’s (Allah in Arabic) commandments. So what about people like myself who don’t happen to follow any religious ideology? Are we not at peace or is it the duty of the followers of Islam to “educate” me on how to find peace and “serve” peace to me on a silver platter?

BTW if any religion is worthy of having the phrase “religion of peace” bestowed upon it then it probably is Jainism. Any Abrahamic faith claiming the title of being the “religion of peace” is laughable.

Paphlagonian wrote:I'm just trying to clear things up because there is actually a campaign against Islam to demonize it.

Again here we go with the victim mentality once more. As far as I remember no one in my community and America (as far as I knew my country at the time) gave a damn about Islam until a bunch of Wahhabi Muslims from Arabia decided to crash planes into the Twin Towers. Islam demonizes idolaters, polytheists, apostates, Jews, homosexuals, etc. so please don’t be so surprised when the people your religion claims to dislike so much also start disliking you back.


In my professional opinion, Islam needs an Age of Enlightenment and its own version of Reformation. The Hadiths needs to be discarded and certain sections of the Quran have to be amended (similar to how the New Testament toned down the Old one) to make it compatible with modern times. However, since Muslims are too rigid to do any of this I don’t expect religious violence on our planet (especially the Middle East) to cease anytime soon.
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