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German members...

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Re: German members...

Postby JANCKER » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:31 pm

Counter Strike doesn't tell you to kill people for a bigger cause... but whatever.
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Re: German members...

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 10, 2017 3:38 pm

Well... I expect an intelligent human being to be able to see the difference between the virtual world and reality... As I expect them to differentiate between someone manipulating them and religion... As, and this is where it gets interesting, to be able to differentiate between individuals and not groups
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Re: German members...

Postby tflags » Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:47 pm

#12 wrote:As I expect them to differentiate between someone manipulating them and religion... As, and this is where it gets interesting, to be able to differentiate between individuals and not groups


And this is why Germany has one of the more stringent laws against sects? Com'n man, these people have been around the block. They know how to attract people without you even realizing what's going on.
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Re: German members...

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:19 pm

Erm... Jehova's Witnesses, Scientology... All legal here... Only sects forbidden - just like parties - are those that are without a doubt against constitution or life threatening...
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Re: German members...

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:21 pm

do you have Communist Parties?
If yes aren't those against the Const as well?
Aren't they life threatening as well?
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Re: German members...

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 3:52 pm

There are few life threatening parties...
Why are you whatabouting again? You wanna take part in an adult, serious conversation, please act like it... Cause NPD is unconstitutional and even so not forbidden... See?
Maybe fierce communist parties are unconstitutional... They are much more meaningless though...
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Re: German members...

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:12 pm

#12 wrote:There are few life threatening parties...
Why are you whatabouting again? You wanna take part in an adult, serious conversation, please act like it... Cause NPD is unconstitutional and even so not forbidden... See?
Maybe fierce communist parties are unconstitutional... They are much more meaningless though...

But are there any? In Italy for instance there are

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Re: German members...

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 11, 2017 4:19 pm

I'm sure there are... But really really meaningless...
First KPD was forbidden when FRG was still very young (1950?)... There are successors that have been re-formed but they're below 1%...
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Re: German members...

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:39 am

Err... why are communist parties unconstitutional? One party ideology maybe?

They are clearly extremely unpopular everywhere in the West but I'm not sure why they're unconstitutional.
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Re: German members...

Postby #12 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:40 am

Well, in Germany, every party whose goal it is to overthrow the entity we call "Freiheitlich-demokratische Grundordnung"... (hard to translate literally) Something like a basic principle, that our country is founded on liberal democracy... This FDGO is - of course - not accepted by right wingers, but wide parts of the far left also reject it for being to vague and branding it an empty phrase...

Now the FRG is a so called "streitbare (or "wehrhafte") Demokratie" ("militant" democracy), meaning it has the means to defend itself against attempted coups, violent revolutions, etc...
KPD back then had -of course- connections to GDR and because of German rearmament was openly calling for violent revolution... That kind of subversive behavior is thus unconstitutional...
I hope that explanation is understandable
Even though I teach history, I -of course- don't know every detail, and this is not exactly a defining moment
But if you're interested in specifics I can dig deeper into it and read up on some about that KPD ban...
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Re: German members...

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:25 pm

It's interesting to me but not that interesting to make you do research. :P By all means feel free and I'd be happy to hear about it if you do, but don't feel obliged.
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Re: German members...

Postby #12 » Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:10 pm

Well, there's times when my fingers are very itchy but this is kind of a minor matter... maybe
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Re: German members...

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:03 pm

Attended an extremely interesting seminar on the failure of the West in Europe today and I thought I'd share some of the insights here as it's a topic often discussed in this (and other) threads. A British-Maltese academic who is anti-EU (voted against Malta joining and in favour of Brexit) spoke about the situation in the UK and in France, a German academic about Germany, and a Maltese sociologist about Greece.

The points made by the German interested me a lot. She said that while anti-liberalism is dominant across much of the West at the moment, Germany seems to be the opposite and is mostly still anti-conservative. However she noted that the real failure of the left in Germany and elsewhere is not the gradual loss of power but the fact that socialist parties have failed to implement true socialism and tend to see people as a collective, which is precisely what socialism is supposed to liberate them from (capitalism seeing them as a collective with no individual identity). She pointed out the increase in deportations by the German government (which includes social democrats) as proof that there is no real socialism and the rest of the left is invisible in this situation (with a party like Die Linke supporting a cap in the number of refugees). In a sense, the point seems to be that by turning to populist ideas, the left has turned against the weakest, which it is meant to protect and so has abandoned its own principles.

I wonder what you guys (#12 and the Germans especially) think about that.

On a related note, the Maltese academic used Syriza in Greece as an example which shows that populism can only win elections but then reality hits and there is a rapid drop in popularity with the same things that created opportunities for you are the ones which cause you problems. I noticed that that seems to be what is already happening to some extent with Trump. Interestingly, Syriza is a leftist party with populist ideas but has lost a lot of popularity, which makes you wonder whether populist ideas are in fact any better than the left or whether people are simply out of touch with all kinds of politicians.
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Re: German members...

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:38 pm

Interesting.
Imo there has to be a balance...
But calling ppl who want to protect their citizens and country as a whole "populists" is already a bad start.

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Re: German members...

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:54 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Interesting.
Imo there has to be a balance...
But calling ppl who want to protect their citizens and country as a whole "populists" is already a bad start.

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I agree on the need for balance but I suspect we view it in opposite ways. I think it should be socially left, economically right. I think you might prefer the other way round.

They called them populist (at least this is how I understood them) because these left parties support these views only because it will attract more (mostly working class) voters to them.
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