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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:21 pm

MUTU wrote:So Lewandowski and Neuer are not best players?
They are old
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:22 pm

nm462272 wrote:not that it matters, but i believe both Gnabry and Sane are mixed-race
True.

Still I believe that most of the current best are not white.
@tuscanybayern you have a point.
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby MUTU » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:25 pm

Kulusevski?
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby nm462272 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:28 pm

https://www.transfermarkt.de/spieler-st ... ktwertetop

you can always take Transfermarkt with a little grain of salt, but looks like maybe half of the most valuable players are "white" and the other half are p.o.c.
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby tuscanybayern » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:30 pm

MUTU wrote:Kulusevski?


Havertz, Haaland, De Ligt...
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:48 pm

tuscanybayern wrote:
MUTU wrote:Kulusevski?


Havertz, Haaland, De Ligt...
Goretzka too.

But I do think both Tuscany and Ramsej have a point. There's a lot to untangle; for instance, it is usually said that there is a bias in how we perceive black players as fast and athletic vs white players as smart and composed. Regardless of whether it is a physical difference or a perception bias, there is an easily demostrable fact that most current young top *wingers* are black or "brown" . Can you even think of any white player at the level of Davies, Mbappe, Sané, Gnabry, Neymar, Sancho, Sterling that is young? I could say Werner. If you're willing to be flexible on youth, you can postulate Bale or Messi.

I emphasize wingers because arguably the increased requirement on acceleration and speed are for wingers. For midfielders and CBs we still require strength and intelligence over spread and acceleration.

One pluzzling angle for me is that most of these superb black wingers are actually of a light body frame. Skinny and not too tall, which goes against the usual stereotype for African descendants.

Ramsej's hypothesis is at least worthy of consideration IMO. I think Tuscany's socioeconomic demographic explanation goes a long way in explaining the observed disparity between the general racial composition of society and that specific to football, but I'm not convinced it fully does so.

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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby tuscanybayern » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:03 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
tuscanybayern wrote:
MUTU wrote:Kulusevski?


Havertz, Haaland, De Ligt...
Goretzka too.

But I do think both Tuscany and Ramsej have a point. There's a lot to untangle; for instance, it is usually said that there is a bias in how we perceive black players as fast and athletic vs white players as smart and composed. Regardless of whether it is a physical difference or a perception bias, there is an easily demostrable fact that most current young top *wingers* are black or "brown" . Can you even think of any white player at the level of Davies, Mbappe, Sané, Gnabry, Neymar, Sancho, Sterling that is young? I could say Werner. If you're willing to be flexible on youth, you can postulate Bale or Messi.

I emphasize wingers because arguably the increased requirement on acceleration and speed are for wingers. For midfielders and CBs we still require strength and intelligence over spread and acceleration.

One pluzzling angle for me is that most of these superb black wingers are actually of a light body frame. Skinny and not too tall, which goes against the usual stereotype for African descendants.

Ramsej's hypothesis is at least worthy of consideration IMO. I think Tuscany's socioeconomic demographic explanation goes a long way in explaining the observed disparity between the general racial composition of society and that specific to football, but I'm not convinced it fully does so.

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Neymar is 28, Sterling 26, Sané 24 - we should agree on the definition of "young" first. u23? u21? u30?
Last edited by tuscanybayern on Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:05 pm

tuscanybayern wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:
tuscanybayern wrote:[quote="MUTU"]Kulusevski?


Havertz, Haaland, De Ligt...
Goretzka too.

But I do think both Tuscany and Ramsej have a point. There's a lot to untangle; for instance, it is usually said that there is a bias in how we perceive black players as fast and athletic vs white players as smart and composed. Regardless of whether it is a physical difference or a perception bias, there is an easily demostrable fact that most current young top *wingers* are black or "brown" . Can you even think of any white player at the level of Davies, Mbappe, Sané, Gnabry, Neymar, Sancho, Sterling that is young? I could say Werner. If you're willing to be flexible on youth, you can postulate Bale or Messi.

I emphasize wingers because arguably the increased requirement on acceleration and speed are for wingers. For midfielders and CBs we still require strength and intelligence over spread and acceleration.

One pluzzling angle for me is that most of these superb black wingers are actually of a light body frame. Skinny and not too tall, which goes against the usual stereotype for African descendants.

Ramsej's hypothesis is at least worthy of consideration IMO. I think Tuscany's socioeconomic demographic explanation goes a long way in explaining the observed disparity between the general racial composition of society and that specific to football, but I'm not convinced it fully does so.

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Neymar is 28, Sterling 26, Sané 24 - we should agree on the definition of "young" first. u23? u21? u30?[/quote]

Hahaha good point. Let's say 25 and under. Do you think it's fair? Regardless I don't think the result would depend of your definition for any given age-range below 30.

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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:20 pm

Interesting how the discussion’s developed to a non-point about player demographics.

The most false statement in ramsej84’s bait was not even the abundance of black players, it’s the fact that skin colour is associated with physical attributes in football. It’s absolutely true in the general population, yes, but the strongest striker on the planet is a white as hell Polish guy. The most explosive midfielder in the world is a white, almost pink ginger from Belgium. Our two black wingers are weak as fuck. There are too many exceptions to the rule in football for that sweeping statement to be relevant.
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:27 pm

Just read tuscanybayern’s point earlier which hit the nail on the head as well, with the change in the available talent pool. It feels like more of a consequence of immigration than anything.
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Re: Philipp Lahm

Postby tuscanybayern » Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:34 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Just read tuscanybayern’s point earlier which hit the nail on the head as well, with the change in the available talent pool. It feels like more of a consequence of immigration than anything.


I don't see the point anymore in this discussion, the underlying issue is the definition of "black": how is Neymar a better winger than Hazard because of its skin colour? Ignoring his personal history growing up in the streets in Brazil with a football ball? How does Sancho's "blackness" compare to Mahrez's or Salah's who have a similar skin colour but are caucasian?

We are not talking about running 100m in less than 10 seconds. Football is much more than all this shit.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby Fénix » Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:17 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Interesting how the discussion’s developed to a non-point about player demographics.

And that's where I step up, merged your posts to Chat Thread and you can have lead discussion about footballers and all other athletes and their performances, advantages and disadvantages based on height, weight, body constitution, anatomy, color of skin, etc. :)

I was only thinking should I post here or in other "the other sports thread", since you can draw parallels and expand it to basketball, athletic which is probably the best place to see how things stand and how there are pluses and minuses on all sides.

But in football thousands of parameters play an important role while I agree that speed and endurance has become extremely important part of football in the last 10-15 years, but many other things must work out, too.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby IsiahRashad » Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:44 pm

Ah, just to change the things a bit - I'm changing my workplace!

After a year and a half in the Ministry of Interior, I'm changing the office with operation at the Danube bridge border crossing point (Bulgaria-Romania) and I will work for the National Revenue Agency. I won my place after there were almost 70 people on the first phase - the tests (I don't know the exact number for sure), and in the interviews I fought with 36 (37 including me) people who passed the test.

Since I had almost no free time while working in the Ministry, I decided to look for a job that is in shifts. The work is a day and night shift and 2 days rest. Yes, I'm going to miss some of the Bayern games, but when I have work and I cannot watch them - I always stop my internet, because I don't want to know the result - I download the game and watch it hahahh. :mrgreen:

And last week I refused a job at the Customs Agency, because I was feeling good about this one. The best part? Now I have 2 weeks rest! :cheers: :cheers:

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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Aug 28, 2020 12:02 am

Massive congratulations and best of luck!
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby nm462272 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:13 am

congrats! =D>
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