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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:39 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:For a Maltese person, the only way to learn languages like Swedish is either self taught or by going to Sweden, which obviously isn't so practical. Why the hell we insist on teaching Italian rather than the Nordic languages in our schools is beyond me. It has no economic advantage and is just perpetuating the idea that foreign languages are useless when in fact the right language opens up a million possibilities. It's probably just plain conservatism/traditionalism/it's part of our culture mentality. But the truth is in today's world geographic distance means very little.

So true, but then again what are the chances that when these kids grow up and start working there's still Swedish betting companies in Malta? iGaming is very fast paced and what's here today is not necessarily going to be the same tomorrow. Besides, just learning Swedish at school doesn't mean you know Swedish. I learned German at school and I spent years watching football on German channels and reading German news articles, but I'm nowhere near close to being fluent in German and struggle a lot to read, let alone speak.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 16, 2018 7:46 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:As for your salaries increasing in the long term, it's a bit hard to say. I personally believe (like many analysts) that the future of work is more akin to what I'm already doing: to each his own, no employers, just doing a job for this guy and that company and so on. It's called the gig economy, and technology and the evolving society are pushing us in that direction, it makes financial sense for employers, and millenials want it. So the concept of salary won't really remain as we know it.

Also true, and quite frankly I find it scary, maybe because I'm growing old :wink: . I don't see much sense in it either. In most jobs you need to learn some background and understand what exactly you're working on, a training period. If you're selling stuff, if you're writing software for a particular project, if you're working as a cook in a restaurant... you can't just 'drop' someone in and expect them to work, on the first day, at the same level as someone employed full-time for 3 years. I really don't understand this concept, besides as an 'employee' (you're no longer really an employee) you spend much of your precious time stressing yourself to find your next job, and the one after that.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:26 am

Writing on Tapatalk so won't multiquote.

@ramsej: yes, Chinese and Arabic are offered in most schools but VERY few students choose them. And who can blame them? They are too "foreign" because of their alphabets. There is an obvious societal prejudice against Arabic and frankly I think Chinese, while fascinating, is not more useful than German and French (and Spanish). I do not buy into the Mandarin hype. It will never overtake English as the language of business. And unless you own an international business or something it's pretty useless for someone on a small island in the middle of the Mediterranean, except for the fascinating cultural history of China.

@MUTU: your first part on learning languages at school =/= knowing the language fluently is true, although that's also a problem of the education system. But it's a start, and it's better than self-learning. And some people do reach that fluency. If you're not fluent in speaking, you won't be able to do customer service, for instance, but there are other jobs which require reading skills in these languages. I studied French for 7 years, I understand it very well in writing and speaking, I can write it fairly well but if I'm in conversation I struggle to think of the words on the spot due to lack of practice. So I wouldn't consider myself fluent... Yet what I'm good at is good enough to let me translate from it and I do it well. I studied Italian for 5 years and was never any good at it because I'm terrible in production, both writing and speaking. But again, I can read it and undrrstand the majority of the words, and with the right tools, I sometimes (very rarely) translate from it too - and do it well (apparently :P ). Sometimes fluency is not necessary. This obviously doesn't apply to jobs where you need to speak.

Your point on these languages no longer being necessary in 15-20 years time is very valid. But the Nordic countries consistently rank among the best places to live, so maybe increasing their chances to find opportunities there isn't a bad idea (for those willing to endure their dark winters)...

What you say on the change in "employment" IS partly related to age I think but not just. See for all the flak millenials get, studies have been fairly consistent on just how different the millenial mentality is from previius generations: practically no one wants to be in the same job for 20+ years, they change jobs and even careers every few years, they see themselves as citizens of the world and want mobility, they hate 9-to-5 jobs, and they are one with technology (I use they but of course this is also me). This is the perfect combination for these kinds of jobs. The benefits? It gives you freedom and flexibility. You're not as much of a slave to work. It lets you work from anywhere, at any time. I know someone currently travelling all around South Korea while still doing her job. My best friend moved from Ireland back to Malta for summer and is now heading on holiday to the Philippines and then moving to Australia for a few months, while still keeping her "job". She's not going to be living in a major city either, but a minor beach village. And that works too, because these jobs no longer require you to be close to the city.

There are of course downsides, some of which you mentioned. Less security, constant worry/anxiety, no colleagues (i.e. loneliness)... and studies have also consistently shown just how common these mental health issues are in millenials. The truth is I make more or less the same amount every month, it tends to balance out. Sometimes it's slightly less, more often it's slightly more, but the fluctuations are very small. And for that amount I work very little compared to normal employees. I do worry a lot when work slows down for a couple of days, like last week before I remembered most clients are probably on shutdown, but deep down I also know I could still increase work a lot by chasing more clients and agencies. For the time being I've kept my client pool fairly small so I only work a few hours a day; I'm prioritising the freedom I mentioned over the money. In time that will change when I need to save up more, and I'm fairly confident I will manage it.

The situation is of course different and I understand it would worry someone with a wife and a child. Making the jump from full-time to this kind of work with no financial security is downright scary. For me it's different because the only other job I've ever had was teaching English for 3 hours a day. I literally do not know what working full time is like. And I think that was wise because at this age there's really not much to lose. See, if my "business" fails, it's not too much of a problem because I don't have a lot of expenses and I can go for another, more traditional job if I need the money. And if it succeeds... well, it's more rewarding than other jobs, for the reasons mentioned above but also financially. So far it's succeeded and now we'll see if it persists long term. This was the time to take the risk because when I'm older or preparing to get married or somthibg it's just too much of a gamble to leave the security of your job and salary and try your own thing. It's this change in viewpoint that helped me stop stressing out so much about the things you mentioned and learn to enjoy the days without work. I still worry a lot on certain days of course, but it's normal, and the moment work comes in again the worries vanish. I think it's more scary from the outside and in the beginning than it actually is once you're in it.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:33 am

Oh, forgot to answer the training part. I don't know how it is in other indurstries, me and my friends are all in linguistic industries (translation, editing, proofreading, transcribing, writing, or a combination of them). So for us the best training you can get is pretty much a university degree, and beyond that it's also partly a talent you're born with (I believe). But also for example I did a traineeship with an agency that is now one of my clients before I started, so I learnt a lot about their procees. My other major client provided a day's training about their most common type of work and it was enough and really useful. So I think there's still a concept of training, at least in our industry, but it's more limited.

That said, for a lot of freelance work (the linguistic industry, web development, graphic design...), your clients really are clueless. :P You're the expert and they know nothing about it, so I think your concern is a bit misguided. It's just different from working at a company where you have superiors to report to who know the industry and the job.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 16, 2018 9:08 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Oh, forgot to answer the training part. I don't know how it is in other indurstries, me and my friends are all in linguistic industries (translation, editing, proofreading, transcribing, writing, or a combination of them). So for us the best training you can get is pretty much a university degree, and beyond that it's also partly a talent you're born with (I believe). But also for example I did a traineeship with an agency that is now one of my clients before I started, so I learnt a lot about their procees. My other major client provided a day's training about their most common type of work and it was enough and really useful. So I think there's still a concept of training, at least in our industry, but it's more limited.

That said, for a lot of freelance work (the linguistic industry, web development, graphic design...), your clients really are clueless. :P You're the expert and they know nothing about it, so I think your concern is a bit misguided. It's just different from working at a company where you have superiors to report to who know the industry and the job.

At a past job we had translators employed full-time, and they received some 3 weeks of training. It depends much on the nature of what you're translating. The head translator had a PhD in translation and was giving out the training. You need to know a lot about the subject you're translating to be able to translate well, at least that's what this guy used to say. As a translator yourself I assume you'd understand.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:46 am

MUTU wrote:At a past job we had translators employed full-time, and they received some 3 weeks of training. It depends much on the nature of what you're translating. The head translator had a PhD in translation and was giving out the training. You need to know a lot about the subject you're translating to be able to translate well, at least that's what this guy used to say. As a translator yourself I assume you'd understand.


Interesting that you had full-time translators. That's become quite a rarity these days. Even translation agencies don't employ many full-time translators and mostly send their work to people like me.

What he said is true of course but in my humble opinion (I am of course not as experienced as him, but sometimes there's a fine line between experience and old-fashioned) even more important is to be able to research well and digest information quickly, especially when you are familiar with a topic but not extensively. Most of the time this lets you translate well, especially in Maltese where we have very few established terms in most subject fields. Unfortunately many translators I know don't bother researching at all and they just translate however they like without having any idea what they're writing about. In fact this morning I've mostly been doing editing and rewriting work on translations done by other people who clearly understood nothing.

It's possible that the situation is different though. I suspect that full-time in a non-translation company is very different and probably they would always translate the same kind of documents which belong to the company itself. This makes training easy. But with the more common type of translator you need to be as varied as possible (while still having some degree of specialisation in each field through research, reading, experience, and talking to professionals in the field - most of my childhood friends are doctors and I consult them all the time). And different clients have their own rules and preferences for terminology. In such a case even a year of training would be insufficient, so training should focus on the skills I mentioned and others which are then transferable to most scenarios.

I'm curious whether I know the guy. Probably not many people with a PhD in translation in Malta.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:59 pm

Today I went to collect the remaining stickers to complete my World Cup Album...

While sticking them I noticed that I left one out!!!!

It's Isco #131
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:10 pm

re our previous discussion (before the language thing)
Abdirashid Ibrahim Ahmed ,23, and Abdiraheem Abbas Tahlil, 22, were arraigned next and charged with possession of cannabis resin in circumstances which denoted that it was not intended for their personal use and with possessing the drug within 100m of a place frequented by youths.The three are Somali Nationals [source]


again here , vulnerable persons are being used for all the wrong reasons...

see why they want these people here : for drugs dealing, prostitution, slavery etc
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:36 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:At a past job we had translators employed full-time, and they received some 3 weeks of training. It depends much on the nature of what you're translating. The head translator had a PhD in translation and was giving out the training. You need to know a lot about the subject you're translating to be able to translate well, at least that's what this guy used to say. As a translator yourself I assume you'd understand.


Interesting that you had full-time translators. That's become quite a rarity these days. Even translation agencies don't employ many full-time translators and mostly send their work to people like me.

What he said is true of course but in my humble opinion (I am of course not as experienced as him, but sometimes there's a fine line between experience and old-fashioned) even more important is to be able to research well and digest information quickly, especially when you are familiar with a topic but not extensively. Most of the time this lets you translate well, especially in Maltese where we have very few established terms in most subject fields. Unfortunately many translators I know don't bother researching at all and they just translate however they like without having any idea what they're writing about. In fact this morning I've mostly been doing editing and rewriting work on translations done by other people who clearly understood nothing.

It's possible that the situation is different though. I suspect that full-time in a non-translation company is very different and probably they would always translate the same kind of documents which belong to the company itself. This makes training easy. But with the more common type of translator you need to be as varied as possible (while still having some degree of specialisation in each field through research, reading, experience, and talking to professionals in the field - most of my childhood friends are doctors and I consult them all the time). And different clients have their own rules and preferences for terminology. In such a case even a year of training would be insufficient, so training should focus on the skills I mentioned and others which are then transferable to most scenarios.

I'm curious whether I know the guy. Probably not many people with a PhD in translation in Malta.

The stuff that needed to be translated were documents intended to be read by system administrators / network engineers and were full of technical mumbo-jumbo.

The translators as such were not living in Malta (only the Italian one was). The guy with the PhD is German.

I'm talking well over a decade ago though, everything has changed since.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:02 pm

Yeah I'd probably need training on that, true. I've worked on IT (user interfaces mainly) and obviously that has technical terms too but not to the extent in texts meant for experts. I do work on medical and EU texts meant for experts with lots of technical jargon though.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Aug 18, 2018 11:55 am

Made this stat from a database I obtained :)

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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:05 pm

Germany I assume?
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:06 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Germany I assume?

Do you think Germany played 39,669 international matches? :oops: :P
It's what I believe is every single international match ever played, or close to it.
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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:18 pm

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Re: General Chat Thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:58 pm

MUTU wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:Germany I assume?

Do you think Germany played 39,669 international matches? :oops: :P
It's what I believe is every single international match ever played, or close to it.


You're right, I don't know how I missed that :lol:
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