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Do you believe in God?

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Do you believe in God(s)?

Yes, I believe in the God of Abraham.
12
43%
Yes, I believe in a God or Gods other than the God of Abraham.
2
7%
Yes, but I am not a practising believer.
1
4%
I believe there is an unknown force or existence which is not a God (e.g. alternate realities).
1
4%
I don't know.
1
4%
No, but I believe there is an afterlife.
0
No votes
No, but I believe in reincarnation.
0
No votes
No, I am an atheist.
8
29%
No, I am an agnostic.
3
11%
Other
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 28

Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:09 am

ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:Well, the Old Testament is also part of the Bible, but even if it weren't, there's plenty of intervention in the New Testament too, not least God becoming a human being.
But we believe He did so to save humanity from sin.
I kind of He had to do that to win against the devil.
Especially by his Resurrection

Granted, but the problem remains. This is a God that, while allowing free will, nevertheless has intervened at various points in history, the story goes, to make the world better. So why not intervene to stop evil, assuming he is all-good and all-powerful?

Mark's point that we should celebrate the existence of evil because it means we have free will and aren't puppets is valid, but it doesn't solve the ethical problem the existence of evil poses for a God who, according to the story, has chosen to intervene but, in this cases, chooses to remain a bystander. If the reason really was to respect free will and let humanity guide its own history, there would not have been any intervention whatsoever. Jesus did reverse some evils, after all.
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:30 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:If we didn't have free will we'd be basically actors following a script. Whichever god you believe in, or even if you are an atheist, surely you should celebrate the fact we have free will and, by extension, that evil exists.


True. However, it’s not a satisfactory answer to why God would not intervene considering he is all-good and, according to Christian belief, used to intervene all the time anyway.
More than that... Reconcile the existence of a pure good omnipotent being with the existence of child cancer.

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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:32 am

ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:If we didn't have free will we'd be basically actors following a script. Whichever god you believe in, or even if you are an atheist, surely you should celebrate the fact we have free will and, by extension, that evil exists.


True. However, it’s not a satisfactory answer to why God would not intervene considering he is all-good and, according to Christian belief, used to intervene all the time anyway.
@FCBayernMunchen you are "quoting" the Old,Testament. Which imo gives us a different view of God. It is more of a Hebrew thing... than it evolves ... that is why I see Judaism as an expired Rel as they should have moved on ...
I would in fact argue that you have it backwards. The old testament God is downright evil, while the new testament God is arguably all-good.

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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:59 am

Not sure about downright evil although tbh despite being raised Catholic I am not too familiar with most of the Old Testament. However there is a clear noticeable difference. I have often read ideas that in fact the Gods of the two testaments aren’t the same God at all.
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:34 am

Today we start the beginning of the Holy Week.... as today week Celebrate Easter

May the Blessings of Easter descend on all Human Kind.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby bmguy » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:46 am

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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby tuscanybayern » Sun Apr 05, 2020 11:26 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:To help explain what I am trying to get at. I hadn't really thought about this, these are just thoughts that I had from the last few posts here.

The way I see it there are these possibilities. I am not referring to evil things like war and so on here (as that was part of my original question on the tweet but it is not relevant to the discussion you raised here), just to natural stuff (let's take earthquakes as an example for simplicity):
1) The world and the rest of the universe, including earthquakes, were not created by a God. Over here I am using the common meaning of God as the God of the Christianity/Islam/Judaism, not a generic term. I believe that even if one is an atheist you have to concede that that once you strip every other layer you will always come to something that is infinite and beyond time and space, whether you call it God, a pre-big bang universe, or whatever else.
2) The universe, including earthquakes, was created by a God, who is not just good. This is why I said that believing God also created evil solves this dilemma. But: Catholicism does not believe in such a God. Also, if true, why? Just for sport?
3) God - the good one - created everything, including a nature that includes bad stuff, earthquakes and all. Why, though, if he is only good?
4) The universe was created by more than one God-like figure, some of which are evil (Manichaeism for example believes in two gods, the good and evil).
5) God created just the good stuff, and then the bad stuff, like earthquakes, developed independently. This would offer the same explanation behind human evil, like war. BUT, that also means we have to apply the same reason. So does nature have a free will? If the answer is yes, this poses questions for Christianity like, does nature/the planet have a soul/consciousness? That would take us closer to the old tribal religions than what the Bible teaches. On the other hand, if the answer is no (nature does not have free will), then how exactly did nature develop evil things? The view since Aristotle is that things can only change into things they already had the potential for. So did God give nature the potential for evil? If not, something that is just good should, theoretically, only be able to change into something good. On the other hand if refute this potentiality argument it opens up a whole other dilemma for Catholic beliefs, not a theological one but an ethical one: it is exactly the argument that underpins the view that an unborn foetus should be treated as a human life, because it is what it will become through its potentiality.


Catholicism is probably the most incoherent of the major religions. No wonder that Protestantism is still a thing today.
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:40 am

I was wondering, how does Islam address or reconcile (if it does) the issue of free will?
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:20 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I was wondering, how does Islam address or reconcile (if it does) the issue of free will?

I will answer this eventually, as I promised when talking about good vs. evil. I also want to get my understanding absolutely right, so still taking my time :P Sorry.
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Apr 08, 2020 11:48 am

No problem, looking forward. Was reading a history book yesterday and came across the whole preordained thing (very very briefly), which tbh I had forgotten about since my religious lessons. Then saw your post in the Covid thread and remembered I wanted to ask.
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby ramsej84 » Mon May 04, 2020 6:15 pm

The Greatest Ever Pope...
The True Pope...
Pope Benedict XVI

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ ... him.789938
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby tuscanybayern » Mon May 04, 2020 6:41 pm

ramsej84 wrote:The Greatest Ever Pope...
The True Pope...
Pope Benedict XVI

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ ... him.789938


I agree...in these difficult times his firm and strong belief in covering up all sexual abuse scandals is long missed....and so are his Middleage positions with respect to gay marriage and abortion

this week he has blessed us with his infinite wisdom by blaming gay marriage and abortion as "signs of the Antichrist"
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby ramsej84 » Mon May 04, 2020 6:45 pm

tuscanybayern wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:The Greatest Ever Pope...
The True Pope...
Pope Benedict XVI

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ ... him.789938


I agree...in these difficult times his firm and strong belief in covering up all sexual abuse scandals is long missed....and so are his Middleage positions with respect to gay marriage and abortion

this week he has blessed us with his infinite wisdom by blaming gay marriage and abortion as "signs of the Antichrist"
Of course he covered sexual abuse sure...
Sure...

Re Gay marriage ... of course cause it should never be called as such... a marriage is between a MAN & a WOMAN.

Civil union yes without any doubts and with all rights of a hetero sexual couple.
Although I have my reservations on adoptions...

On Abortion I don't want to comment ... I d rather not as I have no respect for those who see nothing wrong in an abortion.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby #12 » Mon May 04, 2020 7:16 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
tuscanybayern wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:The Greatest Ever Pope...
The True Pope...
Pope Benedict XVI

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ ... him.789938


I agree...in these difficult times his firm and strong belief in covering up all sexual abuse scandals is long missed....and so are his Middleage positions with respect to gay marriage and abortion

this week he has blessed us with his infinite wisdom by blaming gay marriage and abortion as "signs of the Antichrist"
Of course he covered sexual abuse sure...
Sure...

Re Gay marriage ... of course cause it should never be called as such... a marriage is between a MAN & a WOMAN.

Civil union yes without any doubts and with all rights of a hetero sexual couple.
Although I have my reservations on adoptions...

On Abortion I don't want to comment ... I d rather not as I have no respect for those who see nothing wrong in an abortion.
Yes he did... And marriage is an unnatural construct by definition, so why is it for man and woman?
Abortion should be very very well considered... But provided some restrictions be allowed... Seriously... You shouldn’t force anyone to carry a child who is incapable of doing so... More harm to all parties involved...
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
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Re: Do you believe in God?

Postby MUTU » Mon May 04, 2020 8:19 pm

ramsej84 wrote:The Greatest Ever Pope...
The True Pope...
Pope Benedict XVI

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ ... him.789938

Of course, he's a Bayern fan no?
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
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