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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Mar 20, 2020 10:41 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Ok wow. Tax allowances, increased universal credit, no interest loan amongst others. Government is quite literally provisioning everything financially.
I have looked further into the UK government’s measures and must say I am disappointed about how, as always, freelancers and self-employed people are forgotten. The changes to universal credit and sick leave are welcome but are freelancers who end up with little or no income due to the situation expected to live on £90 a week, while businesses get most of their salaries paid for them?

I wish more people would be aware how grossly unfair most systems around the world are towards freelancers and self-employed people and how few benefits we get. Then perhaps they will understand why we are forced to charge rates much higher than the average employee makes in a similar position. At least in the UK they pay less than employees in things like social security. Over here we have to dish out more money than employees for fewer benefits.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:20 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Ok wow. Tax allowances, increased universal credit, no interest loan amongst others. Government is quite literally provisioning everything financially.
I have looked further into the UK government’s measures and must say I am disappointed about how, as always, freelancers and self-employed people are forgotten. The changes to universal credit and sick leave are welcome but are freelancers who end up with little or no income due to the situation expected to live on £90 a week, while businesses get most of their salaries paid for them?

I wish more people would be aware how grossly unfair most systems around the world are towards freelancers and self-employed people and how few benefits we get. Then perhaps they will understand why we are forced to charge rates much higher than the average employee makes in a similar position. At least in the UK they pay less than employees in things like social security. Over here we have to dish out more money than employees for fewer benefits.

It's not clear but it doesn't mean you can make that conclusion. Everyone's asking the same questions and the government's giving the impression that they haven't thought through how exactly to deal with self-employers, rather than forgotten about them completely.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:35 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Ok wow. Tax allowances, increased universal credit, no interest loan amongst others. Government is quite literally provisioning everything financially.
I have looked further into the UK government’s measures and must say I am disappointed about how, as always, freelancers and self-employed people are forgotten. The changes to universal credit and sick leave are welcome but are freelancers who end up with little or no income due to the situation expected to live on £90 a week, while businesses get most of their salaries paid for them?

I wish more people would be aware how grossly unfair most systems around the world are towards freelancers and self-employed people and how few benefits we get. Then perhaps they will understand why we are forced to charge rates much higher than the average employee makes in a similar position. At least in the UK they pay less than employees in things like social security. Over here we have to dish out more money than employees for fewer benefits.
Huh? Isn’t it a universal basic income?
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:36 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Ok wow. Tax allowances, increased universal credit, no interest loan amongst others. Government is quite literally provisioning everything financially.
I have looked further into the UK government’s measures and must say I am disappointed about how, as always, freelancers and self-employed people are forgotten. The changes to universal credit and sick leave are welcome but are freelancers who end up with little or no income due to the situation expected to live on £90 a week, while businesses get most of their salaries paid for them?

I wish more people would be aware how grossly unfair most systems around the world are towards freelancers and self-employed people and how few benefits we get. Then perhaps they will understand why we are forced to charge rates much higher than the average employee makes in a similar position. At least in the UK they pay less than employees in things like social security. Over here we have to dish out more money than employees for fewer benefits.

It's not clear but it doesn't mean you can make that conclusion. Everyone's asking the same questions and the government's giving the impression that they haven't thought through how exactly to deal with self-employers, rather than forgotten about them completely.
Yup, same here...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:46 pm

People are sunbathing, walking with friends," she said. "Either we all understand that we have to control ourselves, or the army will have to intervene... because we have to stop this pandemic." 

Bring in the army?

According to Italian media reports, the government is seriously considering using the military to enforce restrictions on movement. Il Corriere della Sera daily reported that authorities were considering bringing in 17,000 soldiers to help keep people inside. Such reinforcements would be in addition to the 7,000 soldiers already patrolling certain sensitive areas, such as
government buildings and tourist sites. 
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Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:48 pm

ramsej84 wrote:People are sunbathing, walking with friends," she said. "Either we all understand that we have to control ourselves, or the army will have to intervene... because we have to stop this pandemic." 

Bring in the army?

According to Italian media reports, the government is seriously considering using the military to enforce restrictions on movement. Il Corriere della Sera daily reported that authorities were considering bringing in 17,000 soldiers to help keep people inside. Such reinforcements would be in addition to the 7,000 soldiers already patrolling certain sensitive areas, such as
government buildings and tourist sites. 

Oh my... I thought they were closely adhering to the lockdown?!
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:48 pm

Image
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby DRvad14 » Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:56 pm

^
"THATS NASTY " "EVERYTHING IS PERFECT " TOTALLY PERFECT "

Think ny will go for lockdown by monday .
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:01 am

@Dumbledore: hopefully that is the case and there is more to come. What has been mentioned so far is welcome, and much much more than Malta is doing, but there is a clear difference in treatment between them and employees.

One way to deal with it is a similar concept to the 80% for employers, based on an average income (or profit) over a number of years. Perhaps a median might work better too. This has the added benefit of punishing those who under declare their income.

It is great that self-employed people will be entitled to sick pay as that gives peace of mind as to what happens if they get infected, but what about those who have seen drastic drops in spending because there is less consumer spending and people/businesses are being more careful with their money?

@#12: Not entirely sure what you’re referring to but as far as I can see there is no basic universal income. It’s more of a benefit scheme which has been increased to over £90 a week (from 70 something) while removing certain eligibility requirements. I’m not sure if anything’s been done with regard to rent. If you exclude rent it might be enough to get by, though still nowhere close to keeping your normal income. In any case it is still about 3 and a half times more than what Malta is offering.
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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:06 am

#12 wrote:Image
This is confusing. What do the bars represent? Italy’s seems wrong. Is it total cases since that starting point only? Why does the Italy one go on until the end of the month?

Edit: oh, is for example 20 March showing how Italy was 11 days before?
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby aterford » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:21 am

#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:Just been announced by the governor here that starting tomorrow until 7 April the state is going on a full lockdown.

Weird time out here. My town is one I would usually describe as pretty friendly, people are always happy to see each other and whatnot. I went to a couple stores today to stock up (heard through the grapevine this was coming today) and the mood was so weird. Super tense. Everyone heads down moving as quick as they can. Nobody stopping to stay hi or smile or anything. All the stores were busy, but really quiet. Just a weird atmosphere. So...here we go, I guess...
Lockdown means you still go to work right?

Did you at least get TP?


Hahah. Plenty of TP. Basically, what they are saying for now is that any "non-essential" work either is done from home (when possible), or simply not at all (if not possible to work from home). Thankfully I work IT and our university was able to transition all in-person classes to online-only, so I will be able to work from home, so for the time being no disruption to income or anything like that....unfortunately many others are not so lucky in that regard!
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:38 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
#12 wrote:Image
This is confusing. What do the bars represent? Italy’s seems wrong. Is it total cases since that starting point only? Why does the Italy one go on until the end of the month?

Edit: oh, is for example 20 March showing how Italy was 11 days before?
Yup... So basically, it shows that the US is sliding into a catastrophe (which I guess we all hope it won’t - anything to show Trump's incompetence, but not at that cost!)...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:45 am

aterford wrote:
#12 wrote:
aterford wrote:Just been announced by the governor here that starting tomorrow until 7 April the state is going on a full lockdown.

Weird time out here. My town is one I would usually describe as pretty friendly, people are always happy to see each other and whatnot. I went to a couple stores today to stock up (heard through the grapevine this was coming today) and the mood was so weird. Super tense. Everyone heads down moving as quick as they can. Nobody stopping to stay hi or smile or anything. All the stores were busy, but really quiet. Just a weird atmosphere. So...here we go, I guess...
Lockdown means you still go to work right?

Did you at least get TP?


Hahah. Plenty of TP. Basically, what they are saying for now is that any "non-essential" work either is done from home (when possible), or simply not at all (if not possible to work from home). Thankfully I work IT and our university was able to transition all in-person classes to online-only, so I will be able to work from home, so for the time being no disruption to income or anything like that....unfortunately many others are not so lucky in that regard!
I swear to god, this TP shit is funny and annoying at the same time... There are more people shopping than pre Corona, but shelves are generally not much emptier than usual - until you reach the toiletries section, where you get everything but TP... I went to FIVE fucking stores today... FIVE... I couldn’t help but laugh - WITH OTHERS (keeping a 2m distance) - but I literally don’t get it! I mean we have fucking memes going around about that shit! YOU CANNOT EVEN GET IT ON AMAZON!

FUCK!

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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sat Mar 21, 2020 5:38 am

#12 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:
#12 wrote:Image
This is confusing. What do the bars represent? Italy’s seems wrong. Is it total cases since that starting point only? Why does the Italy one go on until the end of the month?

Edit: oh, is for example 20 March showing how Italy was 11 days before?
Yup... So basically, it shows that the US is sliding into a catastrophe (which I guess we all hope it won’t - anything to show Trump's incompetence, but not at that cost!)...
Well, the US has definitely done very very poorly on this, but Italy probably did as bad as it did due to their old population.

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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby aterford » Sat Mar 21, 2020 7:38 am

AFAIK that graph is just raw numbers - not adjusted for population density nor for percent of population....

Population in Italy is roughly 60.5m; and about 206 persons per sq. km or 532 per sq. mile.
Meanwhile, US population is roughly 330.5m and that's about 36 persons per sq. km or 94 per sq. mi.
In Italy the median age is 45.5 - that's 5th highest in the world. In USA it is 38.1 - about 60th.
So at the moment in Italy those numbers represent ~800 cases (confirmed) per 1 million people;
In USA it's at ~60 per 1 million.

Of course, not to say that things won't get bad/worse here in the states. Those numbers are almost sure to rise in the coming days, in part as it's still spreading but perhaps in larger part due to the fact that we've finally started getting around to actually putting out a semi-decent number of tests (still woefully inadequate and yet a huge improvement at the same time).

So it almost certainly gets worse for us before it gets better. But I'm not sure that we'll get to "Italy levels" of trouble, either - knock on wood. I think that unfortunately Italy was uniquely positioned to get hit especially hard by the virus for a number of reasons. Not only is their average age one of the oldest in the world, they've consequently got a significant percentage of the population in the most vulnerable age range. Something like 1/4th of Italians are 65+! Italy keeps in a lot closer contact with these older folks too. Anecdotally speaking, this seems to be the case in much of Europe (when compared to the US) but especially true for Italians. I'm painting with a broad brush here, but generally speaking I think they've got a much more "familial" culture than here in the States. Or take smoking for example - last I saw it's also around 25% of Italians who are categorized as smokers. Here it's now sub-15%. Cheek-kiss greetings are virtually nonexistent over here.

And of course I don't say that to put forth any sense of superiority or anything like that. Just some cultural differences is all, neither better nor worse, but I do think in this particular scenario it has probably caused Italy some more troubles than other places. So, like I said - it will certainly get worse here before it gets better (and we know now that measures put in place today won't show benefits for two or three weeks down the road; when more infections show in the coming week or so - well, they were already there regardless.), but at the same time - again, knock on wood - I'm not quite so worried that things get SO awful as they've got for our Italian friends. God willing, anyways.
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