You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

A place where you can chill out with the BayernForum.com community and talk about anything.
 

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:05 pm

aterford wrote:You've yet to show any willingness to produce that "evidence" and/or "statistics."

I don't mean to be rude but it's seeming more and more like "the 1% said what I already agreed with, so I believe them" and less like "I compared the data from both sides, weighed it all equally, and came to an objective decision that 99% of scientists and medical professionals are wrong and the 1% are correct, based on this evidence".


you still didnt get my point. i am not asking you to give me evidence and neither should me showing you evidence (of "1%") have anything to do with what I find plausible.
my opinion on a certain matter comes from me doing my own research and yours...doing your own research. I am not lecturing you about a certain matter. I respect what you believe even if I dont agree with it.

Me showing you evidence or statistic or you showing me...wont change the way you think, nor will you giving me additional evidence change my way of thinking. as we both already have own opinion on this matter.

My point throughout this debate was that you can choose to not agree with me but YOU dont get to decide for me what I should think or do.
So if I think that vaccine is not good for me (based on my own research of arguments and evidence from both sides), you are free to dissagree with me but noone should have the right to decide for me or someone else. I hope this is clear now.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 882 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:17 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
#12 wrote:If there’s a scientific dispute where it’s like 60-40, yes... Even 70-30... If 99% of scientists agree on a thing and 1% say something else, it's not a matter of belief and disbelief anymore, it’s about being right or living in denial...
See: Climate Change, Holocaust, Coronavirus, etc...


The percentage of doctors, scientists, immunologists, infectologists on this matter is much bigger than 1%.
But even if it was 1% and based on looking through evidence and statistics of both sides and I decide that what that 1% has presented are better arguments...noone can say that I am living in denial. i just find that more plausible.

See: theory of evolution. some will say we developed from a monkey. some will say we became human beings from nothing. and some will say that we were created by God. Different views and everyone thinks they are right and the other person is living in denial.


Yeah, but one of them is factually right
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 26410
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1328 times
Been thanked: 5940 times
Gender: Male

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:20 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:I believe something.... this was let to spread to become a pandemic in order to help those who produce medicines so that they thicken their pockets...
Sure

Tell me then: trillions of losses in every single country and billions for many companies... How exactly does that make sense for anyone?
As if they care about the rest... !?!
Commissions ...
Yeah seems ABSOLUTELY plausible... I mean, yeah, granted, you also believed a wall that costs a few billion would solve a problem worth a few million but this calculation is even more screwed
Summer 2020: Hasan, show us your weakness!!
User avatar
#12
Chief Critic
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 26410
Joined: Sat May 16, 2015 1:31 pm
National Flag:
Germany
Has thanked: 1328 times
Been thanked: 5940 times
Gender: Male

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby aterford » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:27 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:you still didnt get my point. i am not asking you to give me evidence and neither should me showing you evidence (of "1%") have anything to do with what I find plausible.

You're right, I'm really not sure what the point of this all has been, then. It seems to me like you are saying "I believe XYZ and nobody can force me otherwise" and everyone here is saying "Nobody is forcing you to do anything, but we're asking why you believe XYZ" and the response is just.... "I believe XYZ because I believe XYZ, nobody can force me otherwise"

sch0ll7 wrote:my opinion on a certain matter comes from me doing my own research and yours...doing your own research. I am not lecturing you about a certain matter. I respect what you believe even if I dont agree with it.


Yes, and the point that myself (and others!) are trying to make: why aren't you willing to show us that "research"? If vaccines are as dangerous as you're claiming, wouldn't it be one's duty to inform others? If you have evidence backing that up, you should absolutely be willing to readily produce it. It's downright cruel to say "I have information that I believe could prevent you from harm, but I'm not going to share it with you." Again, don't mean to sound rude, but it sounds more like "I had a belief and found evidence to support that belief and stopped there" rather than "I considered both viewpoints equally and weighed the evidence from both 'sides' accordingly. Here is why I came to my conclusion: ____"

sch0ll7 wrote:Me showing you evidence or statistic or you showing me...wont change the way you think, nor will you giving me additional evidence change my way of thinking. as we both already have own opinion on this matter.


That's an unfortunate way of viewing things. I'm of the mind that we should all be willing to consider new evidence as it becomes available and make up our minds accordingly. "I have my opinion and evidence won't change it" is not a very healthy approach, IMO.

sch0ll7 wrote:My point throughout this debate was that you can choose to not agree with me but YOU dont get to decide for me what I should think or do.
So if I think that vaccine is not good for me (based on my own research of arguments and evidence from both sides), you are free to dissagree with me but noone should have the right to decide for me or someone else. I hope this is clear now.


Yes, you have made that clear, and we have all - repeatedly - pointed out that nobody is trying to decide for you how you should think or what you should do. That has been very clear to everyone else for a long time now, but you keep acting as though someone disagreeing with your viewpoint and asking you to back it up is the same as someone trying to force you into believing and/or doing something else.

And again: I think it's really unfortunate to basically say "this is what I believe and no evidence will change my mind, and you can't force me to consider any other alternative". Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If you want to claim that the moon is made of cheese, that's fine. Nobody is 'forcing' you to stop believing that. But if you are willing to make that claim, you should also be willing to back it up when challenged on on it, you should be willing to produce evidence for that claim when asked for it. And I'm not really seeing that happening at the moment, instead it's just "Don't try and force me to do or believe something else" (which is - again - not what anyone is saying or doing).
God Bless Thomas Müller
User avatar
aterford
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6202
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2013 8:40 am
Has thanked: 4675 times
Been thanked: 4228 times
Gender: Male

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:45 pm

This guy's a flat earther. Drop it guys.
User avatar
Dumbledore7
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: London
National Flag:
Indonesia
Has thanked: 4764 times
Been thanked: 4211 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby MUTU » Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:55 pm

I wonder if we'll have a Cristiano Ronaldo COVID-19 vaccine sometime in the future too.
30GB free cloud storage. Click here for the referral.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 48836
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 8890 times
Been thanked: 14495 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:04 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:See: theory of evolution. some will say we developed from a monkey. some will say we became human beings from nothing. and some will say that we were created by God. Different views and everyone thinks they are right and the other person is living in denial.

Not really, I believe in both without any contradiction. But I was only able to do that by opening my mind to both sides and taking as much of a full understanding as I can of the matter.

Eh what am I doing, you probably can't comprehend what I just said.
User avatar
Dumbledore7
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: London
National Flag:
Indonesia
Has thanked: 4764 times
Been thanked: 4211 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:05 pm

aterford wrote:You're right, I'm really not sure what the point of this all has been, then. It seems to me like you are saying "I believe XYZ and nobody can force me otherwise" and everyone here is saying "Nobody is forcing you to do anything, but we're asking why you believe XYZ" and the response is just.... "I believe XYZ because I believe XYZ, nobody can force me otherwise"


aterford wrote:Yes, and the point that myself (and others!) are trying to make: why aren't you willing to show us that "research"? If vaccines are as dangerous as you're claiming, wouldn't it be one's duty to inform others? If you have evidence backing that up, you should absolutely be willing to readily produce it. It's downright cruel to say "I have information that I believe could prevent you from harm, but I'm not going to share it with you." Again, don't mean to sound rude, but it sounds more like "I had a belief and found evidence to support that belief and stopped there" rather than "I considered both viewpoints equally and weighed the evidence from both 'sides' accordingly. Here is why I came to my conclusion: ____"


Like I said before I dont consider you as an individual can force me to do anything. But your support (and others) on this matter..."because we think that whole population especially elderly will only get immunity by vaccination, the other side that doesnt want to get vaccinated should vaccinate and if they dont do it we should punish them by not being able to travel, not offer them medical treatment or make them pay more for national health system etc.." just because you and others believe that you will be more secure. If you support that...you are basicaly denying other persons free choice. If a other person believes that the same vaccine will harm him based on side-effects, diseases and other illness that is documented by a manufacturer of that same vaccine.

Considering that this covid vaccine is still not out and neither me or you dont know its ingredients or how good will be or what kind of side effects will have. I am talking about Vaccines that are already out.

So for the sake of the argument...we can forget about my researches, evidence etc...and we just use the manufacturers documentation about side-effects, diseases it can cause and its ingredients. Solely on that if I decide to not take a vaccine. For me it is a good enough reason.

If it means that when new vaccine comes out and I take a good look at it and there are more positive effects than negative ones. I have no problem with taking it. But if it means that 0.005 percent people (elderly that have other health problems) will get to live a few more years and other 8 billion people will be exposed to side-effects and serious illness or disease..and has to live with it. I wont take it.

aterford wrote:That's an unfortunate way of viewing things. I'm of the mind that we should all be willing to consider new evidence as it becomes available and make up our minds accordingly. "I have my opinion and evidence won't change it" is not a very healthy approach, IMO.



When I wrote "Me showing you evidence or statistic or you showing me...wont change the way you think, nor will you giving me additional evidence change my way of thinking. as we both already have own opinion on this matter."

By the way you and some others write and mostly attack or ridicule. It is clear that you have already made up your mind on certain matter, so there is really no point of me trying to convince anyone. But if you really are a critical thinker and want to reasearch a little more I would advise you to research more and maybe you find more information that will help you. I will also continue to do more research as I am doing it for the last 10 years.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 882 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:11 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:This guy's a flat earther. Drop it guys.

Dumbledore7 wrote:Eh what am I doing, you probably can't comprehend what I just said.


Why would you drop so low and try to ridicule or in other words call someone stupid...
If you dont want to debate or are angry because of me or something else. go for a walk dude.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 882 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:12 pm

It's an opinion I formed based on the evidence I saw, nothing you do will change my belief :lol:
User avatar
Dumbledore7
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: London
National Flag:
Indonesia
Has thanked: 4764 times
Been thanked: 4211 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:16 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:It's an opinion I formed based on the evidence I saw, nothing you do will change my belief


I respect your opinion but there is no need to drop so low and call me names. Children in pre-school know better.
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 882 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:22 pm

@scholl7 I respect your op and understand your fears...

Most of the ones attacking you are the ones who advocate the most liberal of ideas can't believe that they are not respecting your op.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 50510
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 33353 times
Been thanked: 7259 times
Gender: Male

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:26 pm

I sincerely asked you for some evidence which you were too lazy to do, then when challenged you cried about it? Forgive me for being disappointed in what you call a "debate". One side have been very willing to hear you out but you offered nothing.
User avatar
Dumbledore7
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: London
National Flag:
Indonesia
Has thanked: 4764 times
Been thanked: 4211 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:45 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:I sincerely asked you for some evidence which you were too lazy to do, then when challenged you cried about it? Forgive me for being disappointed in what you call a "debate". One side have been very willing to hear you out but you offered nothing.


The debate was not about me trying to convince you vaccines are bad. It was always about freedom of choice and one side understanding the other side why someone would decide sometning and respect it even if it doesnt agree with it. But it developed into refusing someones right to his critical thinking and decision that comes from it. and after that ridicule and calling names.

You were willing to hear me out for an evidence so you could try to debunk it...and it just goes round and round. Like I said I am not here to convince you into believing something. But from the beginning all of you failed to answer one easy question. Are you for freedom of choice when it comes to a person deciding what is good for his own health. (without punishing him for this decision).
Starin` at the world through my rearview
User avatar
sch0ll7
Moderator & EURO 2012 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 5080
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 1:22 pm
Location: "I'm a Bayern Munich player and I've no intention of joining that club. I'm fine thanks."
Has thanked: 282 times
Been thanked: 882 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:48 pm

Think we've answered that many times actually, which you've failed to get many times. In fact I think most of us had given that an easy "yes" from the very beginning.
User avatar
Dumbledore7
I live on BayernForum.com
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 6767
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 3:02 pm
Location: London
National Flag:
Indonesia
Has thanked: 4764 times
Been thanked: 4211 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

PreviousNext

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests