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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:49 pm

nm462272 wrote:to date, 1.34 million deaths from COVID and infection rates are only increasing.

Flu - up to 650,000 per year.

So just now alone, there have been double the amount of Covid deaths as a typical flu season. By the way, there is a flu vaccine given out each year.

So is this your version of doing the research and being informed?


aterford wrote:Has there ever been any vaccine - ever - whose administration has been conclusively linked to a mortality rate higher than that of COVID-19 right now? Broadly speaking, COVID-19 has a mortality rate across the board of 2-3%, of course differing based on a variety of factors.

I'm no expert, but I'm not aware of any vaccine that comes remotely close to that number. So when we talk about "cure must not be worse than the problem" - as it relates to mortality rate - I don't think it's really remotely feasible that the "cure" (vaccine) be "worse" (higher mortality rate) than the "problem" (COVID-19).



There are a lot less Covid only deaths. The vast majority (more than 98%) of deceased patients were 80 years of age or older. The majority (70%) of the deceased, younger than 70 years, had an underlying disorder, such as cardiovascular suffering, diabetes mellitus, chronic lung disease or obesity.

There a lot of experts reports that show that those covid deaths were actually not covid reletated but still counted as death from covid.

Another huge alarm for a lot of experts is that this years/season flu/influenza/respitory deaths is down by 60-95% across the world.
The number of lab-confirmed cases of the flu is also down by 50-90%. And in some cases almost dissapered.
You can look around and check this data for yourself. There are thousands of doctors that point this out and that a lot of seasonal flu cases are counted as covid.

When a patient with simptoms comes to a hospital and they make a PCR test...in most cases they lable it as Covid, even though that PCR test is in no way reliable and can show that a person who has a seasonal flu or even a 100% healthy person has covid.
The use of the non-specific PCR test, which produces many false positives, showed an exponential picture. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.


And when it comes to your number of 2-3% mortality rate. That is for "infected" people. and when you put it across the whole population of 7.7b..the percentage drops to 0.017% which means that other 99.98% are doing just fine.

And this percentage (even if we count all the numbers as true covid numbers and not flu or other cases) and since a positive PCR test does not automatically indicate active infection or infectivity, this does not justify the social measures taken, which are based solely on these tests.

when I mentioned cure must not be worse than a problem, I meant everything. not just a vaccine but also restrictions, people losing business, people with real health issues not getting proper treatment, lockdowns, people losing jobs etc.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby nm462272 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:51 pm

There you have it folks, this guy figured it out! Might as well stop vaccine production, it's not that bad!

Kinda feel like this discussion has run it's course...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:09 pm

Fénix wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:EDIT: NOT THOSE, the quoting went mad. I meant Fenix's comments @ me

If you meant the incident when you were being sexist and I called you out your misogynism, resulting in you using a BANHAMMER on me, I don't think that is in any way comparable to us calling out Scholl for refusing modern medicine in favor of Youtube conspiracies.

Then there was something about some sheep

No, the post has absolutely nothing to do with that misinterpreted joke/misogynism or whatsoever, but what @Scholl says that what is right to him doesn't necessarily mean it is right to all others.

When someone is strongly convinced in something, you can give him all evidences and facts you want, he shall always remain convinced to his own opinion, beliefs, facts, points of view, etc. and the point is - it's his free will to do so, even he might sound like a lunatic, but as long as one doesn't jeopardize anyone else with his madness, free will, freedom of speech, it's okay even though it's not okay. He or she uses the current system for what he/she wants to. That's the price of living in free society and nothing is perfect.
That logic also must be understood even if it's completely irrational and contradictory, but it's still a free will, a sign of individual freedom/liberty and we don't actually live in collective systems, more like individual ones masked under some care about collective, common good, etc. It's always about where you stand in society and your interests, wishes, etc. We all have that in ourselves.

@Scholl has mentioned smokers... Despite being proven and very obvious with your eyes and nose as something bad or not good for human's health and body without using any medical examinations, a billion people still choose on their own free will to smoke till they die.
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Politicians only what they do as a "common good, greater good, society argument and story, healthcare system" is that they force them to organize themselves by visiting neighboring states with lower standards to buy cigarettes for way less money or look for smugglers and some cheap garbage tobacco because they'll continue to smoke no matter what, they'll find their way despite raising taxes and prices. They don't quit with their addiction, habit, choice, depends how each smoker sees himself.

It's their will, just as way dangerous people for others in my country constantly insist on driving drunk 3 days a week and apart from that damn fast thus killing themselves and other in cars or streets.
Why? Because they just won't to leave their damn vehicles at home and get drunk. They consciously and totally sober say with no shame that they can drive no matter what and that's a total insolence and an absolute irresponsibility despite laws and traffic fines.


The whole story about vaccination has reached a paranoid level over the last 10-15 years. A serious blame must be put on the economical system, ie capitalism. Countries/authorities didn't do anything to put themselves in position of judges when the big ones are in question unlike the ordinary, poor ones. Increased lack of trust in everything since the Cold War ended is understandable and in some cases even completely justified.
Your statement renders debate useless... Having a mindset immune to arguments and reason is called stubbornness, to be polite...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:12 pm

I believe something.... this was let to spread to become a pandemic in order to help those who produce medicines so that they thicken their pockets...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:14 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
MUTU wrote:Who is forcing you to take it? No one. Stop claiming anyone is.


I am not saying you or anyone on this forum is forcing anyone to take it..as you cant. But you would approve or support vaccination even if a person would refuse to take it for health concerns.

#12 wrote:Thing is, it’s not a belief anymore... Science is not some weird shaman voodoo!


If a number of scientists say that vaccines are safe...and you as an induvidual believe them without checking the evidence for yourself. That is a definition of belief.
There are a lot of doctors, scientists, immunologists, infectologists that claim otherwise and have different views with their own researches.
In holland, belgium, germany and other countries...there are thousands of doctors that came together and claim otherwise.

MUTU wrote:Then we'd be stuck with wearing face masks and other restrictive measures for a number of decades. I don't think any sane person wants this scenario.


So let us all get vaccinated..if not we will be stuck with wearing masks and people losing business, not able to travel...all of this because of a virus that its mortality turned out to be many times lower than expected and close to that of a normal seasonal flu.

"A cure must not be worse than the problem" is a thesis that is more relevant than ever in the current situation.
If there’s a scientific dispute where it’s like 60-40, yes... Even 70-30... If 99% of scientists agree on a thing and 1% say something else, it's not a matter of belief and disbelief anymore, it’s about being right or living in denial...
See: Climate Change, Holocaust, Coronavirus, etc...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:15 pm

nm462272 wrote:
sch0ll7 wrote:So let us all get vaccinated..if not we will be stuck with wearing masks and people losing business, not able to travel...all of this because of a virus that its mortality turned out to be many times lower than expected and close to that of a normal seasonal flu.

"A cure must not be worse than the problem" is a thesis that is more relevant than ever in the current situation.


to date, 1.34 million deaths from COVID and infection rates are only increasing.

Flu - up to 650,000 per year.

So just now alone, there have been double the amount of Covid deaths as a typical flu season. By the way, there is a flu vaccine given out each year.

So is this your version of doing the research and being informed?
... with safety measures and precautions being IN place... And without having talked about long covid yet...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:16 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:It really is fascinating to me how they manage to come up with these stories. Farmed mosquitoes, really? :lol:
Obviously, the mosquitoes got the blood needed for reproduction from their heads...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:25 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
nm462272 wrote:to date, 1.34 million deaths from COVID and infection rates are only increasing.

Flu - up to 650,000 per year.

So just now alone, there have been double the amount of Covid deaths as a typical flu season. By the way, there is a flu vaccine given out each year.

So is this your version of doing the research and being informed?


aterford wrote:Has there ever been any vaccine - ever - whose administration has been conclusively linked to a mortality rate higher than that of COVID-19 right now? Broadly speaking, COVID-19 has a mortality rate across the board of 2-3%, of course differing based on a variety of factors.

I'm no expert, but I'm not aware of any vaccine that comes remotely close to that number. So when we talk about "cure must not be worse than the problem" - as it relates to mortality rate - I don't think it's really remotely feasible that the "cure" (vaccine) be "worse" (higher mortality rate) than the "problem" (COVID-19).



There are a lot less Covid only deaths. The vast majority (more than 98%) of deceased patients were 80 years of age or older. The majority (70%) of the deceased, younger than 70 years, had an underlying disorder, such as cardiovascular suffering, diabetes mellitus, chronic lung disease or obesity.

There a lot of experts reports that show that those covid deaths were actually not covid reletated but still counted as death from covid.

Another huge alarm for a lot of experts is that this years/season flu/influenza/respitory deaths is down by 60-95% across the world.
The number of lab-confirmed cases of the flu is also down by 50-90%. And in some cases almost dissapered.
You can look around and check this data for yourself. There are thousands of doctors that point this out and that a lot of seasonal flu cases are counted as covid.

When a patient with simptoms comes to a hospital and they make a PCR test...in most cases they lable it as Covid, even though that PCR test is in no way reliable and can show that a person who has a seasonal flu or even a 100% healthy person has covid.
The use of the non-specific PCR test, which produces many false positives, showed an exponential picture. If someone tests positive, this does not mean that that person is actually clinically infected, is ill or is going to become ill.


And when it comes to your number of 2-3% mortality rate. That is for "infected" people. and when you put it across the whole population of 7.7b..the percentage drops to 0.017% which means that other 99.98% are doing just fine.

And this percentage (even if we count all the numbers as true covid numbers and not flu or other cases) and since a positive PCR test does not automatically indicate active infection or infectivity, this does not justify the social measures taken, which are based solely on these tests.

when I mentioned cure must not be worse than a problem, I meant everything. not just a vaccine but also restrictions, people losing business, people with real health issues not getting proper treatment, lockdowns, people losing jobs etc.
There’s factually wrong stuff in there... The PCR is very specific... It produces false positives, but there’s a cross test as well... The number of false positives is lower than your - wrong - case mortality rate... Which luckily IS lower than expected, but still above 0.5%...
And sorry, but just because someone has a condition we exclude them from the equation? Because they're old? I have Hypertension, #1 condition in CoViD-deaths... Does that mean, the condition - with which I could still get to be 100 years old - would be a cause of death in your opinion?

This whole discussion... If a Covidiot dies of Corona because he didn’t wear a mask - did he die from stupidity or with stupidity?
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:26 pm

ramsej84 wrote:I believe something.... this was let to spread to become a pandemic in order to help those who produce medicines so that they thicken their pockets...
Sure

Tell me then: trillions of losses in every single country and billions for many companies... How exactly does that make sense for anyone?
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby nm462272 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:27 pm

#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:I believe something.... this was let to spread to become a pandemic in order to help those who produce medicines so that they thicken their pockets...
Sure

Tell me then: trillions of losses in every single country and billions for many companies... How exactly does that make sense for anyone?


Something something new world order, something something George Soros, etc.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sch0ll7 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:30 pm

#12 wrote:If there’s a scientific dispute where it’s like 60-40, yes... Even 70-30... If 99% of scientists agree on a thing and 1% say something else, it's not a matter of belief and disbelief anymore, it’s about being right or living in denial...
See: Climate Change, Holocaust, Coronavirus, etc...


The percentage of doctors, scientists, immunologists, infectologists on this matter is much bigger than 1%.
But even if it was 1% and based on looking through evidence and statistics of both sides and I decide that what that 1% has presented are better arguments...noone can say that I am living in denial. i just find that more plausible.

See: theory of evolution. some will say we developed from a monkey. some will say we became human beings from nothing. and some will say that we were created by God. Different views and everyone thinks they are right and the other person is living in denial.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby aterford » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:37 pm

sch0ll7 wrote:
#12 wrote:If there’s a scientific dispute where it’s like 60-40, yes... Even 70-30... If 99% of scientists agree on a thing and 1% say something else, it's not a matter of belief and disbelief anymore, it’s about being right or living in denial...
See: Climate Change, Holocaust, Coronavirus, etc...


The percentage of doctors, scientists, immunologists, infectologists on this matter is much bigger than 1%.
But even if it was 1% and based on looking through evidence and statistics of both sides and I decide that what that 1% has presented are better arguments...noone can say that I am living in denial. i just find that more plausible.

See: theory of evolution. some will say we developed from a monkey. some will say we became human beings from nothing. and some will say that we were created by God. Different views and everyone thinks they are right and the other person is living in denial.



You've yet to show any willingness to produce that "evidence" and/or "statistics."

I don't mean to be rude but it's seeming more and more like "the 1% said what I already agreed with, so I believe them" and less like "I compared the data from both sides, weighed it all equally, and came to an objective decision that 99% of scientists and medical professionals are wrong and the 1% are correct, based on this evidence".
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:50 pm

#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:I believe something.... this was let to spread to become a pandemic in order to help those who produce medicines so that they thicken their pockets...
Sure

Tell me then: trillions of losses in every single country and billions for many companies... How exactly does that make sense for anyone?
As if they care about the rest... !?!
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:52 pm

nm462272 wrote:
#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:I believe something.... this was let to spread to become a pandemic in order to help those who produce medicines so that they thicken their pockets...
Sure

Tell me then: trillions of losses in every single country and billions for many companies... How exactly does that make sense for anyone?


Something something new world order, something something George Soros, etc.
The latter is responsible for something else... not only one actually ... he even sold his people to see what kind of person (read reptile) he is
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby RedQueen » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:56 pm

aterford wrote:You've yet to show any willingness to produce that "evidence" and/or "statistics."

I don't mean to be rude but it's seeming more and more like "the 1% said what I already agreed with, so I believe them" and less like "I compared the data from both sides, weighed it all equally, and came to an objective decision that 99% of scientists and medical professionals are wrong and the 1% are correct, based on this evidence".

That's because these "scientists, doctors and immunologists" don't produce any data of their own. At least that's the case with those who are figureheads of the German Corona sceptic movement. They are either retired scientists who haven't published anything in peer reviewed journals in years, and during their active days they've published on all kinds of things having nothing to do with corona viruses, or with respiratory infections in general. Or they are simply practizing physicians who have nothing to with either virology or epidemiology, and haven't published anything at all in peer reviewed journals. Doesn't stop them from producing tons of youtube videos and blog entries and even writing books, claiming to be "experts".

Of those who are recognized scientists, there are a few who consider the virus to be less dangerous than the general consensus, but they don't argue it's comparable to the flu, or that PCR tests are unspecific.

I suppose that's why scholl7 doesn't come forward with any names; most likely it would quickly turn out these so-called experts are really pseudo experts, like the ones in Germany. Maybe except for Ioannidis, who is a renowned expert, but whose studies on Covid19 have regularly been torn apart by peers, for both scientific reasons and for receiving undisclosed funds from an air freight carrier corporation. And even he wouldn't dream of claiming the PCR tests are invalid.
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