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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby aterford » Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:19 pm

nm462272 wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Sheer up. Moderna announced good results today.

https://twitter.com/johnfraher/status/1 ... 94437?s=19


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now that's two vaccine candidates with success rates over 90% - not sure we could have hoped for better results =D> =D>

apparently this too: "Moderna announced Monday that its vaccine can be stable at refrigerator temperatures for a month and frozen for up to six months. It will not require dilution at the point of care, unlike the Pfizer vaccine."


Yes, that's perhaps the biggest benefit here: the Moderna vaccine requires keeping at "only" -20c
(for "long-term" storage. Safe to store at 2-8c for up to 30 days), while the Pfizer vaccine requires -70c. -70c facilities are perhaps not as rare as some complainants would have you believe but still: it's a big win for deployments in rural areas and other locales in which that -70c requirement is hard to meet. Great news there.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby America USA » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:22 pm

MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:I don't want to take a hastily prepared cocktail for a Virus that is most likely (like 99.5%) not gonna be fatal to me anyway.

And there we have it, the misinformation and pure selfishness, without even a consideration for potentially causing others to die. Do you even stop to think about how non-action from your part and others who think the same way would affect society at large?

The hastily-prepared one is the Sputnik V. I wouldn't recommend taking that. There's nothing wrong with the Pfizer one. Let's wait and see FDA's approval.

Every animal on this planet is biologically and in an evolutionary sense hard wired for “Self Preservation” This is also called Survival Instinct. If following your basic living instinct is wrong, well then I’m a bigger criminal than Osama bin laden.

My body therefore my rules. I am the only human on this planet actively responsible for my body’s wellbeing. If I chose to smoke a pack a day then that’s me destroying my body by my own choice. However if it’s my choice to rely on my immunity to fight a mostly non lethal virus (Science proves that the novel Coronavirus is non lethal for ~97% patients, a person under 60 with no underlying health issues has less than a 0.5% chance of death from COVID alone and the average COVID death age is above 80 years old) then that’s my decision to make and no one else can have a say in it.

Sorry bro but not you nor anybody else is guilt tripping me into taking this cocktail. Never in human history has a successful vaccine been made for any strain of Coronaviruses and the fact that they have done so in just 12 months makes me err on the side of Caution, just like our Governments are Erring in the Side of Caution by doing large scale Lockdowns.

If you want to make me out to be a self absorbed monster for refusing to take a chemical I don’t trust then that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Anyone who thinks they are at particular risk or trusts this vaccine is free to go ahead and get one. Again your body your choice and that’s not my area to judge anyone on.

———
Anyway I think I’m done discussing Non-Soccer issues on this website. It’s obvious most users here believe that name calling, accusing, insulting and posting “ :lol: :lol: ” emojis is synonymous to having a civil online discussion.

I would just conclude by saying my views are possibly more Libertarian than the overwhelmingly Socialist thought that appears to be the Status Quo over here. I value Individual Responsibilty over Government Big Brother authority. Sorry if my more Laissez Faire views are not in line with the present day Nanny State rhetoric.
Last edited by America USA on Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:31 pm

America USA wrote:
MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:I don't want to take a hastily prepared cocktail for a Virus that is most likely (like 99.5%) not gonna be fatal to me anyway.

And there we have it, the misinformation and pure selfishness, without even a consideration for potentially causing others to die. Do you even stop to think about how non-action from your part and others who think the same way would affect society at large?

The hastily-prepared one is the Sputnik V. I wouldn't recommend taking that. There's nothing wrong with the Pfizer one. Let's wait and see FDA's approval.

Every animal on this planet is biologically and in an evolutionary sense hard wired for “Self Preservation” This is also called Survival Instinct. If following your basic living instinct is wrong, well then I’m a bigger criminal than Osama bin laden.

My body therefore my rules. I am the only human on this planet actively responsible for my body’s wellbeing. If I chose to smoke a pack a day then that’s me destroying my body by my own choice. However if it’s my choice to rely on my immunity to fight a non lethal virus (Science proves that the novel Coronavirus is non lethal for ~97% patients, a person under 60 with no underlying health issues has less than a 0.5% chance of death from COVID alone and the average COVID death age is above 80 years old) then that’s my decision to make and no one else can have a say in it.

Sorry bro but not you nor anybody else is guilt tripping me into taking this cocktail. Never in human history has a successful vaccine been made for any strain of Coronaviruses and the fact that they have done so in just 12 months makes me err on the side of Caution, just like our Governments are Erring in the Side of Caution by doing large scale Lockdowns.

If you want to make me out to be a self absorbed monster for refusing to take a chemical I don’t trust then that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Anyone who thinks they are at particular risk or trusts this vaccine is free to go ahead and get one. Again your body your choice and that’s not my area to judge anyone on.
1.) Never before was one actually needed as previous Coronaviruses simply didn’t make it necessary...

2.) You focus too much on death... If you actually respect science, look up "long covid"...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:32 pm

America USA wrote:
MUTU wrote:
America USA wrote:I don't want to take a hastily prepared cocktail for a Virus that is most likely (like 99.5%) not gonna be fatal to me anyway.

And there we have it, the misinformation and pure selfishness, without even a consideration for potentially causing others to die. Do you even stop to think about how non-action from your part and others who think the same way would affect society at large?

The hastily-prepared one is the Sputnik V. I wouldn't recommend taking that. There's nothing wrong with the Pfizer one. Let's wait and see FDA's approval.

Every animal on this planet is biologically and in an evolutionary sense hard wired for “Self Preservation” This is also called Survival Instinct. If following your basic living instinct is wrong, well then I’m a bigger criminal than Osama bin laden.

My body therefore my rules. I am the only human on this planet actively responsible for my body’s wellbeing. If I chose to smoke a pack a day then that’s me destroying my body by my own choice. However if it’s my choice to rely on my immunity to fight a non lethal virus (Science proves that the novel Coronavirus is non lethal for ~97% patients, a person under 60 with no underlying health issues has less than a 0.5% chance of death from COVID alone and the average COVID death age is above 80 years old) then that’s my decision to make and no one else can have a say in it.

Sorry bro but not you nor anybody else is guilt tripping me into taking this cocktail. Never in human history has a successful vaccine been made for any strain of Coronaviruses and the fact that they have done so in just 12 months makes me err on the side of Caution, just like our Governments are Erring in the Side of Caution by doing large scale Lockdowns.

If you want to make me out to be a self absorbed monster for refusing to take a chemical I don’t trust then that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. Anyone who thinks they are at particular risk or trusts this vaccine is free to go ahead and get one. Again your body your choice and that’s not my area to judge anyone on.

———
Anyway I think I’m done discussing Non-Soccer issues on this website. It’s obvious most users here believe that name calling, accusing, insulting and posting “ :lol: :lol: ” emojis is synonymous to having a civil online discussion.

I would just conclude by saying my views are possibly more Libertarian than the overwhelmingly Socialist thought that appears to be the Status Quo over here. I value Individual Responsibilty over Government Big Brother authority. Sorry if my more Laissez Faire views are not in line with the present day Nanny State rhetoric.
That edit dude... You complain about others yet the most condescending here is you...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby America USA » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:40 pm

Call it whatever you want Mr. #12 but I am going to refrain from posting on non soccer issues because it’s obvious to me that most users here are European and therefore have a different mindset than I do and that’s ok.

I personally cannot accept Nanny state policies and will always value Personal responsibilities and individual choices over Governmental overreach.

I think you’re the status quo when it comes to this websites ideologic epicentre and if that’s what it’s about over here (Name calling, making assumptions about my personality and posting lots of emojis as a way to foster discussion) I think I’m better suited to keeping my mouth shut on most subjects here and know my place.

Apologies if I have offended you and others with my obnoxious views. Thanks
Last edited by America USA on Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:41 pm

nm462272 wrote:
America USA wrote:
nm462272 wrote:If anyone ever wonders why the US can't get corona under control, this is a great comment to read :lol:

What a shame that you feel like the need to laugh at the plight of millions of blue collar workers who have no choice but to work through this and can't just sit at home and collect Government welfare checks.

The Lockdowns that most Liberals want would see almost everything shutdown and people being driven into unemployment and lack of livelihood and which in turn will result in suicides, mental health problems and domestic violence cases. The World Bank has also said that Global Poverty level will increase due to lockdowns and I think one WHO official even said that Lockdowns cannot be the primary way of combating the situation and long term lockdowns will cause more harm than good.

Coronavirus may or may not kill you and me (also supported by the fact that 97% of infections don't result in death and if you're under 60 and have no health condition then a person would not even feel anything and recover by himself/herself) but HUNGER is the biggest killer on Planet Earth and Suicide is also another cause of death that's being brushed under the carpet right now.

I don't know where you got it from my comments that I was saying don't get the situation under control because I clearly stated that I respect Mask policies and advocate for Sanitizers everywhere and in a previous comment also called for better ventilation systems.

Learn to respect diverse opinions and not make fun of them Sir. Have a good day!


The point is that there is a broad group of Americans whose first reaction to any kind of self-sacrificing is to say "no", and then list a whole bevy of reasons why a lockdown/facemark/social distancing/etc. won't work. In your particular case, the plight of blue collar workers is the reason why we should just carry on as-is (granted, you acknowledged face masks, etc.).

In a functioning society, the primary concern should be limiting the spread of the virus (and therefore limiting the amount of death and serious illness) while supporting those in need with government assistance. Those who are unable to safely work should not feel obligated to put themselves in harms way (excluding medical professionals, etc.) without certain safety measures, government support, etc., and those who lose their job because of the virus shouldn't wonder where they're going to get their next meal.

The US is the richest country in the world, and the government acts like they can't afford or are unwilling to help anyone out during the crisis. I would assume that this is what drives people to suicide, mental illness, hunger, etc.

Re: blue-collar workers, I work with them every day. We've implemented special measures to protect their health while keeping them employed. But I also know there are systems in place here that would support them if they were no longer able to work here.

In any case, that's the whole point. Many Americans are unwilling adapt their lifestyle and culture to the reality of a pandemic, and when anyone suggests that it doesn't have to be that way, it's just more denial or excuses.
Funny thing is, this "I am responsible for myself only" and "better dead than red"-"universal healthcare is communism"- "fuck socialism" attitude that isn’t only popular with hillbillies, rednecks and far right Americans, is kind of a joke... These are the same people who are happy about a few Dollars of tax relief - that they buy at the cost if their children, grandchildren and grandchildren’s children...

Yes, the U.S. is good for this money... Yes, the U.S. can easily get hold of more... Yes, interest is low - but there still IS interest... And you shouldn’t need a PhD in economics to realize that this money has to be paid back at some point, in the future...
So while Trump and the GOP sell Americans yet another fluke about lower taxes, this is actually the purest form of "socialism" there is: it‘s child's welfare, as in your children are paying for you...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:46 pm

America USA wrote:Call it whatever you want Mr. #12 but I am going to refrain from posting on non soccer issues because it’s obvious to me that most users here are European and therefore have a different mindset than I do and that’s ok.

I personally cannot accept Nanny state policies and will always value Personal responsibilities and individual choices over Governmental overreach.

I think you’re the status quo when it comes to this websites ideologic epicentre and if that’s what it’s about over here (Name calling, making assumptions about my personality and posting lots of emojis as a way to foster discussion) I think I’m better suited to keeping my mouth shut on most subjects here and know my place.

Apologies if I have offended you and others with my obnoxious views. Thanks
I am not ideological, I make up my mind as I go and I am able to change it based on facts... None of us know for sure which is tge best way... But even leading economists say that you (you as in everyone, not about the U.S. per se) need a relief on the health front before you can get an actual economic rebound... And I am inclined to believe them...
Also, I do not promote total lockdowns either but some regulations and adaptions, especially concerning leisure activities, less so about working... Those who CAN should work from home though...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:07 am

#12 wrote: Also, I do not promote total lockdowns either but some regulations and adaptions, especially concerning leisure activities, less so about working... Those who CAN should work from home though...


I'm broadly of the same mind. I'm in favor of some restrictions, but not full lockdowns, although I should point out to you that your leisure is also someone else's work.

I can empathize with not wanting the state to nanny you (it's gone way too far in some places, and there has also been a lot of hypocrisy), but these are really extraordinary circumstances.


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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby sherpthederp » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:15 am

nm462272 wrote:
MUTU wrote:People don't understand that because they want their freedom and liberty and sense of normality they can start a chain reaction that could end up in people dying. How are people OK with possibly committing manslaughter just because they don't care is beyond my understanding. It's extreme selfishness, that's what it is.


Bingo you hit the nail on the head - it's pure selfishness, which unfortunately is becoming more and more of a defining american trait...

When you brand selfishness as FrEeDoM it’s easy to sell lol
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:37 am

sherpthederp wrote:
nm462272 wrote:
MUTU wrote:People don't understand that because they want their freedom and liberty and sense of normality they can start a chain reaction that could end up in people dying. How are people OK with possibly committing manslaughter just because they don't care is beyond my understanding. It's extreme selfishness, that's what it is.


Bingo you hit the nail on the head - it's pure selfishness, which unfortunately is becoming more and more of a defining american trait...

When you brand selfishness as FrEeDoM it’s easy to sell lol

Damn bro lol
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:44 am

Some really funny comments in this thread. Let it be understood that vaccines protect the people around you more than they protect yourselves, and the chances of getting side effects from vaccines (lol) is much smaller than getting an extreme symptom from COVID-19 anyway. There's no reason, logical or otherwise, not to take it.

There will always be people who can't / won't take the vaccines - either because they are physically vulnerable to vaccines, or still stupid enough to refuse any vaccination at all. All the more reason to vaccinate yourself so that the virus is less likely to be transmitted to these people.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 12:50 am

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby aterford » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:21 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:Some really funny comments in this thread. Let it be understood that vaccines protect the people around you more than they protect yourselves, and the chances of getting side effects from vaccines (lol) is much smaller than getting an extreme symptom from COVID-19 anyway. There's no reason, logical or otherwise, not to take it.

There will always be people who can't / won't take the vaccines - either because they are physically vulnerable to vaccines, or still stupid enough to refuse any vaccination at all. All the more reason to vaccinate yourself so that the virus is less likely to be transmitted to these people.



This is really the takeaway IMO.

I understand there's some concern about long-term effects as this has really been a very fast-tracked vaccine. IIRC, the previous "record" was something like a four-years development. But it's also important to consider: Never before in the history of man has there been such a concerted effort in the medical community to tackle a single issue. So I get the concern that previous vaccines have taken a lot longer to develop, but frankly it's a hollow comparison. They didn't have nearly the same amount of resources, manpower, etc dedicated to them. I suspect if that were the case, they'd be developed on a similar schedule.

Anyways, it's as you say - the chance of getting a side effect from the vaccine is smaller than getting an extreme case of COVID.

Or, my doctor has said it this way before...I'm paraphrasing, but basically what he always is saying is "The reason you're getting prescribed this is because the potential side effects of (medication) are not as bad as the effects of (illness/condition/etc)". And this is the case with all medication. If the cure is more harmful than the illness, it doesn't get put out for public consumption. Maybe that's naïve, but I think it's a good reminder. Maybe the COVID-vaccine will turn us into zombies in 3 years. I guess that would be pretty unforeseen, and that would suck. Maybe a longer trial would prevent that, but I kind of doubt it. Ultimately, that's the point: we've determined that any potential ill-effects from the vaccine - any side-effects that may potentially arise - are less harmful (both to the recipient and the public at large) are not as harmful as the ill-effects caused (or potentially caused, at minimum) by not having the vaccine.

Of course that's not a guarantee of safety but I think the odds of any unexpected catastrophic long-term effects coming up out of nowhere are exceptionally low.

I guess I'd be inclined to ask: What is the specific concern? What dangers do we believe might realistically arrive as a result of the vaccine? Just saying things like "I don't trust that chemical cocktail" or whatnot seems kind of like scaremongering without a specific outcome you're concerned about.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 2:02 am

An accelerated release doesn’t even mean a riskier vaccine anyway. Anyone that has worked in any office or corporate environment would understand this. Anything at all that’s done by a company, whether it’s producing software, developing a vaccine or even just scheduling a meeting usually takes 2-3x more time than actually necessary for that thing to get done. What with people being inherently unproductive, waiting too long for emails, coffee breaks, managers being pricks, intentional lag to wait for market momentum, unnecessary red tapes or whatever.

So maybe in a peaceful time a vaccine takes 4 years to develop, but it sure as hell shouldn’t. Pfizer is supposed to be approved by the FDA soon - in normal times, it probably takes 6 months to a year to arrange something like that with the FDA because of pure bureaucracy, but clearly they’ve just skipped all the bullshit and push the process for this approval higher up the priority as they should. It’s perfectly conceivable. Also they’ve been fairly transparent with their data, and the only thing that’s remotely worrying is the relatively small volume of tests but that concern will always be there in the case of sample testing.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:23 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:
#12 wrote: Also, I do not promote total lockdowns either but some regulations and adaptions, especially concerning leisure activities, less so about working... Those who CAN should work from home though...


I'm broadly of the same mind. I'm in favor of some restrictions, but not full lockdowns, although I should point out to you that your leisure is also someone else's work.

I can empathize with not wanting the state to nanny you (it's gone way too far in some places, and there has also been a lot of hypocrisy), but these are really extraordinary circumstances.


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