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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jun 19, 2020 12:05 pm

They certainly had more to complain about growing up but which generation had the worst hand dealt to it in general depends a lot on one’s beliefs about climate change. If we are to follow science and its warnings there is no question that future generations are worse off.

Also most of the time it is not the war generation that is targeted by millenials (except on specific issues like Brexit) but those who came after. I think by many measures that generation is the most privileged the world has ever seen.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby Lukas » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:34 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:They certainly had more to complain about growing up but which generation had the worst hand dealt to it in general depends a lot on one’s beliefs about climate change. If we are to follow science and its warnings there is no question that future generations are worse off.

Also most of the time it is not the war generation that is targeted by millenials (except on specific issues like Brexit) but those who came after. I think by many measures that generation is the most privileged the world has ever seen.

Although the “baby boomers” are the ones that voted for Brexit, the 50-80 year olds. Not many who actually lived through the war did
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby RedQueen » Fri Jun 19, 2020 1:56 pm

FCBayernMunchen wrote:They certainly had more to complain about growing up but which generation had the worst hand dealt to it in general depends a lot on one’s beliefs about climate change. If we are to follow science and its warnings there is no question that future generations are worse off.

Also most of the time it is not the war generation that is targeted by millennials (except on specific issues like Brexit) but those who came after. I think by many measures that generation is the most privileged the world has ever seen.

As far as it goes for Germany, I'm quite certain they haven't been dealt a worse blow than the post-war generation, and that's without denying the reality of climate change. I'm not sure you really appreciate what it means growing up in an occupied country that's been bombed to pieces, stigmatised by the entire world for things you could do nothing about, cursed with post-traumatic stress syndrome my mother wasn't able to recover from for her entire life, living with six persons in a two or three room flat. No TVs, no freezers, no dish washing machines, no 37 hour week, no vacations twice a year. I'm not even sure they are worse off than my generation, because when I grew up, we sure as hell didn't enjoy anywhere near present-day freedoms and luxuries.

They may have to cut down their standard of living, but to nowhere near post-war levels, or even 1970s Germany levels. They'll have their problems to deal with, as every generation has, and most have had far worse starting points than them. They sure as hell won't be starving or live in anything remotely resembling real poverty, which for many families was a reality in post-war Germany.

The best part is when I see millionaire daughters like Reemtsma or Neubauer (nick-named "longdistance-Luisa", for the number of long distance flights she's already been on for vacation in her early twenties, which exceeds the flights most of us have been on in their entire lives) heading the FFF marches, whining about their oh so bleak future. Or when I hear Thunberg's "you stole my childhood"-crap. I'd like to hear them whining after living two weeks in post-war Germany conditions. As far as I'm concerned, they're a bunch of spoiled brats.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jun 19, 2020 3:09 pm

You raise a very good point there. Obviously we all know what Germany's 20th century was like and what it is like nowadays. I agree with you there. I was arguing more from the perspective of the Anglophone world I am more exposed to, and I believe also Malta. Malta had its own issues back then (being a colony and all) but I think those born from the '50s to the '70s had it much better. For instance you could easily build a house with just 1-2 years of wages whereas a young person wanting to buy their own place today would spend 20-40 years paying off just a small apartment. Then climate of course which affects us more than most places, being an island and further south than much of the developed world. The environment in general, not just climate, has been destroyed almost beyond repair here, mostly by those same people born from the '50s to the '70s.

It's not all bad, of course. Young people nowadays have way more opportunities than they did back then. The main problem is when the older generation act without much consideration for what happens after they are gone, and the younger generation have to deal with potentially life-threatening situations which they are not at fault for. There is a cost to the economic prosperity and opportunities young and old now have (in Malta and beyond) and the price is probably not worth it for those who will have to deal with the consequences, whereas the rest couldn't care less.

So yeah, from one perspective, of course good for them for building up the economy and making life better for us all. But there is life beyond the next 30-50 years too, or we hope so. From this perspective I think the younger generation have been dealt a worse hand even if they have a better economy. Now consider the fact that practically two consecutive young generations have entered the working world during global recessions (2008 and now) and even that economic silver lining starts to look very bleak. The younger generation have a present threatened by economic crises, and a future threatened by climate and automation. I don't think it is us simply playing the victim.

This isn't to take away anything from the suffering of past generations: war, famine, plagues, lack of medical knowledge, and all that. But I don't think any other generation has realistically faced the massive threat of a changed human identity and potential extinction before, except perhaps that same generation I am targeting with the threat of nuclear warfare, which seems more easily averted than the threats of climate and automation as these come under the guise of progress.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby RedQueen » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:02 pm

We've been threatened with extinction many times before, starting with Thomas Malthus in the 18th century, followed by the Club of Rome in the 1970s predicting we'd run out of oil by 1990, at about the same time a new ice age was certain to be imminent and science was debating how to successfully melt the pole caps, about 10 to 20 years later we were to run out of oil by the year 2000, just to mention what comes to mind immediately. There's a saying in Germany, "the science of today is the error of tomorrow". That's not to say climate change isn't a huge challenge, but there's no need for doomsday prophecies.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby kod2600 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:34 pm

It came back strong over here. Around 70 cases today and yesterday.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:44 pm

RedQueen wrote:We've been threatened with extinction many times before, starting with Thomas Malthus in the 18th century, followed by the Club of Rome in the 1970s predicting we'd run out of oil by 1990, at about the same time a new ice age was certain to be imminent and science was debating how to successfully melt the pole caps, about 10 to 20 years later we were to run out of oil by the year 2000, just to mention what comes to mind immediately. There's a saying in Germany, "the science of today is the error of tomorrow". That's not to say climate change isn't a huge challenge, but there's no need for doomsday prophecies.
Perhaps. All I can say in this case is may you be right.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:51 pm

kod2600 wrote:It came back strong over here. Around 70 cases today and yesterday.
Israel has closed the schools after three weeks.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby kod2600 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 4:54 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
kod2600 wrote:It came back strong over here. Around 70 cases today and yesterday.
Israel has closed the schools after three weeks.


At the the beginning of the whole thing, Palestinian government handled it better than Israel and closed earlier than Israel. However, they intentionally opened their checkpoints for Palestinian workers who work in Israel to get in freely which was the the main cause of the 1st wave in Palestine.

In the end, politics aside, we're technically the same land and their numbers been crazy again. Recording around 250 new cases since yesterday.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 5:11 pm

kod2600 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
kod2600 wrote:It came back strong over here. Around 70 cases today and yesterday.
Israel has closed the schools after three weeks.


At the the beginning of the whole thing, Palestinian government handled it better than Israel and closed earlier than Israel. However, they intentionally opened their checkpoints for Palestinian workers who work in Israel to get in freely which was the the main cause of the 1st wave in Palestine.

In the end, politics aside, we're technically the same land and their numbers been crazy again. Recording around 250 new cases since yesterday.


but how are the hospitals coping... ? do they help you in it ?
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 6:46 pm

https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ ... who.799755

The World Health Organization warned on Friday of a "new and dangerous phase" of the coronavirus pandemic with people tiring of lockdowns despite the disease's accelerating spread.

The  warning came as it emerged the virus was present in Italy in December, months before its first confirmed cases and about the same time as the disease was first reported in China.

The world is in a new and dangerous phase. Many people are understandably fed up with being at home... but the virus is still spreading fast," WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told a virtual press conference.

Italian researchers discovered genetic traces of SARS-CoV-2 - as the virus is officially known - in samples of waste water collected in Milan and Turin at the end of last year, and Bologna in January, the ISS institute said.



Chinese authorities said studies of genome data, which it had shared with the WHO , suggest the new outbreak in Beijing "came from Europe", but is different from what is currently spreading there.

"It is older than the virus currently circulating in Europe," Zhang Yong of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) said.

He raised the possibility of the virus lurking in imported frozen food or in the wholesale market itself, resulting in similarities to older strains.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 9:58 pm

RedQueen wrote:
#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:That's why the Govt help.
You mentioned the debts. Live for today then we see what happens.
Another way to put is is that the generations already paying for our exuberance regarding climate change and pollution, have to pay for some of the very generation that got them into said hot water to live a few years longer... I know it’s cynical, but there IS some truth to it...

Sorry, but the ones most in danger of dying are those who rebuilt the economy after the war, who spent their childhood in bunkers and built up the welfare without which there would be neither smartphones nor internet.

Every generation blames the one before. I'd say the kids that grew up during WWII have a lot more to complain about than today's FFF kids, which coincidentally mostly come from wealthy upper-class families.
Sure thing I was merely pointing out another perspective in societal debate...

Still think FFF has a point though...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:03 pm

RedQueen wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:They certainly had more to complain about growing up but which generation had the worst hand dealt to it in general depends a lot on one’s beliefs about climate change. If we are to follow science and its warnings there is no question that future generations are worse off.

Also most of the time it is not the war generation that is targeted by millennials (except on specific issues like Brexit) but those who came after. I think by many measures that generation is the most privileged the world has ever seen.

As far as it goes for Germany, I'm quite certain they haven't been dealt a worse blow than the post-war generation, and that's without denying the reality of climate change. I'm not sure you really appreciate what it means growing up in an occupied country that's been bombed to pieces, stigmatised by the entire world for things you could do nothing about, cursed with post-traumatic stress syndrome my mother wasn't able to recover from for her entire life, living with six persons in a two or three room flat. No TVs, no freezers, no dish washing machines, no 37 hour week, no vacations twice a year. I'm not even sure they are worse off than my generation, because when I grew up, we sure as hell didn't enjoy anywhere near present-day freedoms and luxuries.

They may have to cut down their standard of living, but to nowhere near post-war levels, or even 1970s Germany levels. They'll have their problems to deal with, as every generation has, and most have had far worse starting points than them. They sure as hell won't be starving or live in anything remotely resembling real poverty, which for many families was a reality in post-war Germany.

The best part is when I see millionaire daughters like Reemtsma or Neubauer (nick-named "longdistance-Luisa", for the number of long distance flights she's already been on for vacation in her early twenties, which exceeds the flights most of us have been on in their entire lives) heading the FFF marches, whining about their oh so bleak future. Or when I hear Thunberg's "you stole my childhood"-crap. I'd like to hear them whining after living two weeks in post-war Germany conditions. As far as I'm concerned, they're a bunch of spoiled brats.
OT: What generation are you exactly? I always figured you're generally my age?


Also didn’t know Neubauer was a millionaire's daughter - is that a fact?

She’s cute though...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby kod2600 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:05 pm

ramsej84 wrote:but how are the hospitals coping... ? do they help you in it ?



Our hospitals are handling it well at this point. But if the increasing rate remains they'll lose control so hopefully it won't spread as much in the coming days.

Of course Israel would never help any Palestinian case in the West Bank unless that person is a holder of an Israeli ID then he/she's Israel's responsibility.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:33 pm

kod2600 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:but how are the hospitals coping... ? do they help you in it ?



Our hospitals are handling it well at this point. But if the increasing rate remains they'll lose control so hopefully it won't spread as much in the coming days.

Of course Israel would never help any Palestinian case in the West Bank unless that person is a holder of an Israeli ID then he/she's Israel's responsibility.
May God Help you cause it is not easy to be alone in such crisis.
The most imo thing is to keep social distancing , I know that is not easy especially when we had weeks of a relatively calm sit
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