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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed May 20, 2020 6:55 pm

#12 wrote:Don’t agree with everything you say as it comes off a little too careless... But the conclusion is true, if the medical system does not get closer to it's limits, you needn‘t freeze public life... Still reason to be careful though - it’s not just old people...


I can see how it might come across as careless and it is far from a perfect approach, but I believe the more sensible one and the lesser evil. There are no good solutions to a situation that is bad whatever way you look at it, of course.

When I say vulnerable people I don’t mean just the elderly, although for the things I mentioned later, like reserved time slots, age will probably have to be the determining factor. Malta defined what constitutes people at risk weeks ago and ordered them to lock down (something which was technically never ordered for the rest of us btw, so the issue is more whether businesses should reopen). I think it’s a satisfactory definition.

At some point you have to reopen and now is the time to start trusting people to do what is best for them. If you have vulnerable people at home, you should know better than to go out to risky places and activities. Just because things are open you don’t have to go there. For the rest though, the risk is minimal, and it does not seem worth sacrificing everything else for. Of course there ARE the rare cases of serious infections without the usual risk factors, but it’s a risk we are aware of and one that is up to us whether we are willing to take.

Letting the number of cases guide us was the right approach in the beginning and I was the first to express annoyance weeks ago that our government waited to take action when the numbers clearly showed where we were heading. But now the situation has changed and we have many more cases and data to go off on. I think it is time to partially move away from statistics and generalisations and start focusing on the human aspect of the crisis and treat each case individually based on its severity rather than lump them all together as being of equal concern, because whether we like it or not this is not only a medical crisis. Of course statistics and predictive models stil have a role to play, but decisions should now factor in the individualistic as much as the generalising. We are lucky enough in Malta to be able to analyse every case individually since our numbers are in the dozens rather than the hundreds or thousands.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed May 20, 2020 6:55 pm

#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:Wuhan has banned the consumption of wild animals.
They had a vision from a celestial body
Didn’t they already like a month ago?
Different city I think. Guangzhou?
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Wed May 20, 2020 7:52 pm

Maybe...
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Thu May 21, 2020 1:42 pm

Healthcare workers unite against reopening after 15 new COVID-19 cases
'The second wave is with us', doctors and nurses warn [source]
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Sun May 24, 2020 8:51 am

500 foreigners who lost their jobs because of COVID-19 to be repatriated

Foreign Affairs Minister says they are from Columbia, Spain, Albania and Poland


In March alone, a total of 4,200 EU nationals had been provided assistance to return home, Bartolo said


So far, an estimated 1,500 people form Greece, France, Turkey, Spain, the UK, Bulgaria, Albania, Bosnia, Serbia, North Macedonia and Italy have already been returned back home. 


There are also 2,269 EU nationals who have applied to return home together with 350 children. A further 3,131 non-EU nationals together with their 306 children have also sought help to return


https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/ ... -be.794117
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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun May 24, 2020 9:20 am

I hope the European Commission opens infringement procedures against Malta for blatantly violating our rights.

Edit: unless I am misunderstanding and they applied themselves. But this is not what the post suggests with “after losing their jobs”. I haven’t forgotten our government ministers proudly stating that losing their jobs will mean getting kicked out of the country.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Sun May 24, 2020 9:36 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:I hope the European Commission opens infringement procedures against Malta for blatantly violating our rights.

Edit: unless I am misunderstanding and they applied themselves. But this is not what the post suggests with “after losing their jobs”. I haven’t forgotten our government ministers proudly stating that losing their jobs will mean getting kicked out of the country.
They applied themselves. We got them home for free....
EU nationals and not.

We now have more room to take the migrants who come by boat , certain ngos and buonisti must be rubbing their hands while reading this
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun May 24, 2020 9:41 am

How sure are you? I see nothing in his long post that says so. On the contrary he uses phrases like “we sent them away” and explicitly connects it with employment and is celebrating getting rid of people. His numbers regarding how many were sent away and how many applied for repatriation help do not add up. More were sent away.

Overpopulation is a real problem and needs to be tackled it but NOT at the cost of rights. That means not letting people die, but also not sending people who have every right to be here legally. The EU citizens have a right to be here, employed or not, and I will never defend a government that takes away my, your, and their rights.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Sun May 24, 2020 9:46 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:How sure are you? I see nothing in his long post that says so. On the contrary he uses phrases like “we sent them away” and explicitly connects it with employment and is celebrating getting rid of people. His numbers regarding how many were sent away and how many applied for repatriation help do not add up. More were sent away.
I am not seeing that way.
We actually helped them buying a free ticket.
The EU nat could have stayed and I am sure that they had enough euros saved to by a ticket ... anyways.

The non eu; the same, they were aided to go back home after they applied for help.

I see it as a positive thing, do you know how many are going to end up jobless?
Many Maltese as well, we have to take care of our ppl first. And what would their reason to stay here without job?
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun May 24, 2020 10:04 am

ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:How sure are you? I see nothing in his long post that says so. On the contrary he uses phrases like “we sent them away” and explicitly connects it with employment and is celebrating getting rid of people. His numbers regarding how many were sent away and how many applied for repatriation help do not add up. More were sent away.
I am not seeing that way.
We actually helped them buying a free ticket.
The EU nat could have stayed and I am sure that they had enough euros saved to by a ticket ... anyways.

The non eu; the same, they were aided to go back home after they applied for help.

I see it as a positive thing, do you know how many are going to end up jobless?
Many Maltese as well, we have to take care of our ppl first. And what would their reason to stay here without job?


Where to start?
If you are right that they applied, yes of course we helped. I see it like you do, in that case.
But that is not clear at all. The numbers don’t add up and the minister’s rhetoric is suggestive and ambiguous. If people were sent away without applying - like another minister proudly claimed some weeks ago - that is a clear violation of their rights. Telling people to pack up their bags and kicking them out of a country illegally because they’re not welcome at home anymore is not helping, and if it is so, coming from a minister who is more than happy to share his Christian views, it is beyond disgusting.

It is really none of your or my business why they choose to stay here without a job. Why do you live in Attard when you work in another town? Their right to live here has nothing to do with jobs. End of story. If you are aiming at unemployment benefits, they only qualify if they had been working and paying social security contributions here. In other words they’ll get money that would never have gone into Malta’s coffers if they weren’t here in the first place. So you’re ok with taking their money and giving it to Maltese people, who are known to abuse the system and many have been living off benefits for years and years, but not ok with using their own money by helping them out in turn when they need it.

Besides, there will be Maltese people claiming benefits in other countries too.

If you are aiming at the idea that since jobs will be lost Maltese people should get new jobs first, this is inherently flawed because the majority of jobs lost will be in sectors where very few Maltese people work anyway.
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:31 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:How sure are you? I see nothing in his long post that says so. On the contrary he uses phrases like “we sent them away” and explicitly connects it with employment and is celebrating getting rid of people. His numbers regarding how many were sent away and how many applied for repatriation help do not add up. More were sent away.
I am not seeing that way.
We actually helped them buying a free ticket.
The EU nat could have stayed and I am sure that they had enough euros saved to by a ticket ... anyways.

The non eu; the same, they were aided to go back home after they applied for help.

I see it as a positive thing, do you know how many are going to end up jobless?
Many Maltese as well, we have to take care of our ppl first. And what would their reason to stay here without job?


Where to start?
If you are right that they applied, yes of course we helped. I see it like you do, in that case.
But that is not clear at all. The numbers don’t add up and the minister’s rhetoric is suggestive and ambiguous. If people were sent away without applying - like another minister proudly claimed some weeks ago - that is a clear violation of their rights. Telling people to pack up their bags and kicking them out of a country illegally because they’re not welcome at home anymore is not helping, and if it is so, coming from a minister who is more than happy to share his Christian views, it is beyond disgusting.

It is really none of your or my business why they choose to stay here without a job. Why do you live in Attard when you work in another town? Their right to live here has nothing to do with jobs. End of story. If you are aiming at unemployment benefits, they only qualify if they had been working and paying social security contributions here. In other words they’ll get money that would never have gone into Malta’s coffers if they weren’t here in the first place. So you’re ok with taking their money and giving it to Maltese people, who are known to abuse the system and many have been living off benefits for years and years, but not ok with using their own money by helping them out in turn when they need it.

Besides, there will be Maltese people claiming benefits in other countries too.

If you are aiming at the idea that since jobs will be lost Maltese people should get new jobs first, this is inherently flawed because the majority of jobs lost will be in sectors where very few Maltese people work anyway.
Most of those who left most probably work in the tourism sector.

And no it is not healthy to have thousands sitting around without a job.

And I am pretty sure that no one forced them to leave , remember most of them are eu nats.

They returned home, as here they were job less and were renting therefore it did not make sense anymore in staying here.
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby #12 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:45 am

ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:How sure are you? I see nothing in his long post that says so. On the contrary he uses phrases like “we sent them away” and explicitly connects it with employment and is celebrating getting rid of people. His numbers regarding how many were sent away and how many applied for repatriation help do not add up. More were sent away.
I am not seeing that way.
We actually helped them buying a free ticket.
The EU nat could have stayed and I am sure that they had enough euros saved to by a ticket ... anyways.

The non eu; the same, they were aided to go back home after they applied for help.

I see it as a positive thing, do you know how many are going to end up jobless?
Many Maltese as well, we have to take care of our ppl first. And what would their reason to stay here without job?
No one cares what way YOU see it, there are laws...

So yeah:

Oh, fuck off!
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Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun May 24, 2020 10:54 am

Not sure what makes you so confident. It is not that long ago that this or variations of it were sent to foreigners working in Malta, including Italians and presumably other EU nationals:

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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby ramsej84 » Sun May 24, 2020 10:55 am

#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
FCBayernMunchen wrote:How sure are you? I see nothing in his long post that says so. On the contrary he uses phrases like “we sent them away” and explicitly connects it with employment and is celebrating getting rid of people. His numbers regarding how many were sent away and how many applied for repatriation help do not add up. More were sent away.
I am not seeing that way.
We actually helped them buying a free ticket.
The EU nat could have stayed and I am sure that they had enough euros saved to by a ticket ... anyways.

The non eu; the same, they were aided to go back home after they applied for help.

I see it as a positive thing, do you know how many are going to end up jobless?
Many Maltese as well, we have to take care of our ppl first. And what would their reason to stay here without job?
No one cares what way YOU see it, there are laws...

So yeah:

Oh, fuck off!
@#12 Bahnan kollok.... you post without reading as you admitted yest ... you just want to look cool and popular ... how old are you 18?
The govt gave the chance for those who wanted to leave to do so for free... they did not force anyone... and fcbm knows to well I can't understand how you (fcbm) can't understand it
We don't send back all those illegal migrants who just sit idly in hal far or in marsa , let alone forcing out the eu nationals....

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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Re: Coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Sun May 24, 2020 10:59 am

I’m not not understanding it or saying you are wrong. I’m saying it is not clear at all and there is a potential violation of rights. And I’m not the only one saying it.
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