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[2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:45 pm

Spain will win
1
50%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Germany will win
1
50%
 
Total votes : 2

Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:44 pm

Also Dahoud.... he went into hiding
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby #12 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:36 pm

nm462272 wrote:
#12 wrote:Don’t think it‘s just cause he’s bad - he’s not THAT bad... Honestly think they want to get rid of him...


Löw, you mean? You think they want to get rid of him? Do you think they're just waiting until after the Euros?
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby nm462272 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:37 pm

i can picture that, it seems like the undisputed best players (as in, those who would play regardless of coach) are no where near as close with Jogi as previous generations were. Maybe I'm just imagining that though.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Jorge » Thu Nov 19, 2020 8:58 pm

NT coaches do not train players week-in and week-out. They observe the players, layout tactical plans and when they bring the group in, they work on implementing those schemes.

I give it to anyone that France or Belgium can probably field a more decisive starting XI than Germany, but I do not see a player pool crisis that some mention, Germany's depth (not the starting XI) is actually better than in 2010 and even comparable to 2014. A good coach should be able to assemble a better team out of this group. If anyone was not convinced, after a long string of unconvincing results that span over a 2-3 year period, the game vs Spain was the last nail in the coffin; if the DFB refuses to acknowledge it, wait and see: if Low remains coach until the Euros, I see a major spanking coming, can you imagine the group stage vs the talented and well tuned France and Portugal. I will not even bet my money vs Hungary because it is the 3rd game and by then, Germany might be already shredded in pieces.

On the other hand, the DFB put all the eggs in one basket: it is probably too late for a U turn and fire Löw: there are no more international dates before the final prep for the tournament. As some say, maybe Stefan Kuntz could a good interim coach, you tell him to go out there and do whatever and maybe without pressure he can get some results. At the end of the day it will not be the first time: Denmark won the 92 Euros calling back the players from vacation without having time to prepare the team.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Fénix » Thu Nov 19, 2020 9:52 pm

Jorge wrote:
Fénix wrote:He is nowhere near what he was supposed to be by now. The same thing we can say for Ginter and Kramer yet they were nowhere near Brandt.

Then again we have Götze, Özil, Draxler and Schürrle - the most tragic crew who disappeared immediately after 2014. We can add Max Meyer and Julian Weigl, too.

Germany went off the cliff totally after 2014 in less than 2 years. :|


It is interesting how Dortmund is the place where certain players become precocious assets, while other youngsters fail miserably. Many times we pay attention to the former, and not the latter.

Julian Weigl! I had lost track of him, we even once salivated the idea of bringing young Weigl back to his birthplace neighborhood, then he landed 2000 km away in Lisbon (well at least he is not freezing his nuts in the Russian league like Schürrle, but outside the pitch I gave Andre that he has a hot Russian wife).

La belleza eslava :D You want to have a Slavic wife just like Donald Trump. He knew where's the best or one of 2 best. :mrgreen:

Btw, Weigl is fed up of Benfica and Portugal according to what I have read today in SportBild. But he is a lost case.

1860 talents didn't shine to world class level. Bender twins became from DMs to CBs and one even RB.
Moritz Leitner was a total disappointment in BVB and Stuttgart, Volland nothing big, Weigl as I have mentioned, Neuhaus is now actual but I think he'll keep the same trend from the blue side of Munich.
There are 1-2 more name that I can't recall atm, but the same case as those above.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby #12 » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:07 pm

Jorge wrote:NT coaches do not train players week-in and week-out. They observe the players, layout tactical plans and when they bring the group in, they work on implementing those schemes.

I give it to anyone that France or Belgium can probably field a more decisive starting XI than Germany, but I do not see a player pool crisis that some mention, Germany's depth (not the starting XI) is actually better than in 2010 and even comparable to 2014. A good coach should be able to assemble a better team out of this group. If anyone was not convinced, after a long string of unconvincing results that span over a 2-3 year period, the game vs Spain was the last nail in the coffin; if the DFB refuses to acknowledge it, wait and see: if Low remains coach until the Euros, I see a major spanking coming, can you imagine the group stage vs the talented and well tuned France and Portugal. I will not even bet my money vs Hungary because it is the 3rd game and by then, Germany might be already shredded in pieces.

On the other hand, the DFB put all the eggs in one basket: it is probably too late for a U turn and fire Löw: there are no more international dates before the final prep for the tournament. As some say, maybe Stefan Kuntz could a good interim coach, you tell him to go out there and do whatever and maybe without pressure he can get some results. At the end of the day it will not be the first time: Denmark won the 92 Euros calling back the players from vacation without having time to prepare the team.
The talent pool is not that bad but it lacks a few very decisive positions... If you add Löw, the mix is bad... If you eliminate him, I still don’t see a top 3 nation though... Maybe top 5...
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Jorge » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:30 pm

#12 wrote:If you eliminate him, I still don’t see a top 3 nation though... Maybe top 5...


I take a top 5 over what I have seen in the last 2 1/2 years. Just think that Low couldn't figure out a Korean side in 2018 that included quite a few Koreans playing in their domestic league, what is the level of the K-League? 3. Liga? One player was from the K-League's 2nd Division, what is that? Regionalliga level? Germany can have a few positions lacking cutting edge, as a whole (a team) it should function better.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Manchu » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:39 am

Jorge wrote:
Manchu wrote:5. Loew's decision not to sub on Julian Brandt at half time was inexplicable (like all his decisions). If there is one thing Brandt has shown in his time at Dortmund, it's the ability to act as a gamechanger as a sub. Germany would have almost certainly still lost, but probably not so badly.


Do you really think that Brandt would have changed anything? Once a promising skillful young player, Brandt development is stagnant, I would say he had declined big time after his move to Dortmund. He is a bench warmer for a reason.

To clarify, Brandt's time at Dortmund has been up and down to say the least and I think Favre's system is a very bad fit for him, but one thing he has shown, as he did in his later years at Leverkusen, is the ability to come on as a sub and change a game. The reason why not subbing Brandt on was inexcusable was that of all the players on Germany's bench(Bernd Leno, Kevin Trapp, Niklas Stark, Jonathan Tah, Felix Uduokhai, Benjamin Henrichs, Mahmoud Dahoud, Florian Neuhaus, Nadiem Amiri,Julian Brandt, Luca Waldschmidt), Brandt was only one with any potential to change the shape of the game and maybe gain back some control in the midfield. Obviously if you have Thomas Muller on the bench in that situation you sub him on instead, but if you have Thomas Muller he's probably already starting and your team is probably not down 3-0 at halftime with 0 shots on target.

In general, when you're down 3-0 at halftime and your only change is to sub off a centerback in favor of putting on a worse centerback, you are being willfully negligent at your job.

Fénix wrote:He is nowhere near what he was supposed to be by now. The same thing we can say for Ginter and Kramer yet they were nowhere near Brandt.

Then again we have Götze, Özil, Draxler and Schürrle - the most tragic crew who disappeared immediately after 2014. We can add Max Meyer and Julian Weigl, too.

Germany went off the cliff totally after 2014 in less than 2 years. :|


Some players haven't developed as well as was hoped, but others have clearly fulfilled their potential and some (like Gnabry, Kimmich, and Sule) have proven to be unexpectedly good. Talent development is very iffy and as a rule only about half of world class talents fulfill their potential. And Germany has not necessarily been cursed in this aspect in recent years. If you look at the 2017 Confederations Cup squad, you'd find that, of the 7 players 22 and younger(Goretzka, Kimmich, Sule, Werner, Brandt, Sane, and Henrichs), 6 have them turned out to be somewhere between very good and absolute world class.
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