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[2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:45 pm

Spain will win
1
50%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Germany will win
1
50%
 
Total votes : 2

Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Mani » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:20 pm

MUTU wrote:
Mani wrote:Players like Koch, Max, Tah and Gündogan are the definition of average

I believe Max is the best German LWB.
And Guendogan isn't average. Any coach would take him to Euro 2020.
As for Tah and Koch, well, they're no Hummels or Boateng for sure.

Imo Halstenberg is much better than Max, in both 4atb and 5atb. He might be slow but at least he can defend.
Sure, Gündogan isn’t average if you want a Pep style player that just passes the ball around the midfield with no purpose really. He’s probably decent sub when you want to control the game and protect the lead, I give you that. He shouldn’t be starting but the options were limited yesterday tbh.

Löw is a big problem but the material clearly isn’t the best anymore. It has gone from picking the strongest lineup to picking the least mediocre lineup.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby MUTU » Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:38 pm

I'm not sure the strongest lineup is bad.



Leaving Ter Stegen, Leno, Trapp, Bender, Ginter, Kehrer, Suele/Boateng, Can, Max/Halstenberg, Gosens, Kroos, Guendogan, Havertz, Reus and Brandt on the bench also provides quite some depth.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Fénix » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:10 pm

Ferran Torres won my heart in Valencia and now he destroyed Germany like some Faroe Islands. =D>

Germany NT is an absolute collapse and mess after 0:6. You can't lose against Spain with that kind of result when you have a team to put them 3 goals.

Löw is a hopeless case and Germans once again are confirming my opinion that they lack something as human beings when you defend and tolerate something that can't be tolerated at all. #-o

You simply must fire Löw after 2018 and 2019 and all you do is that you talk complete nonsense about him in post-match interviews, that you allow him less than a year before Euro campaign to make you look like a dead animal.

What's wrong with all those people in DFB and sports media??? Such a football force must have high standards and criteria, therefore - Löw must be attacked from all arsenal and demand publicly his resignation or action to sack him not today, but yesterday. :?

If I ignore the whole defensive line and individual quality, talent etc... Germany have a great and very talented team, extremely dynamic and capable of playing against everyone.

Croatia in Elche in 2018 experienced the worst defeat ever 6:1, we didn't look good, our GK was a total amateur as Subašić's successor and responsible for 2-3 goals minimum while everything they shot on our goal came in.

Germany can't allow themselves since they didn't have an amateur on goal, but to didn't a totally lost and hopeless national coach - doch, doch! :|
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Mani » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:11 pm

Yes that’s the ideal starting lineup and squad if Löw could admit he was wrong and everyone was fit. And it looks pretty great.

The defense is the main weakness at the moment so his decision not to call Hummels and Boateng is pretty catastrophic. Also there have been many injuries so it’s a bit unlucky aswell. Decisions like playing Koch over Ginter at cb and putting Ginter at rb are entirely Löw’s fault though. I just find it funny that the Germany NT start, in a crucial game against Spain, a cb that plays for Leeds and an lb that plays for PSV. And people were calling for Benfica forward to start the game. No offense to those teams.

I guess it’s a mixture of having bad luck and a poor coaching.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Mani » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:25 pm

Manuel Neuer (C) : Hummels, Boateng and Muller ?They can help us." [SportBild]


Yeah Löw has lost the dressing room. Should just leave now
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby MUTU » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:31 pm

Fénix wrote: like some Faroe Islands. =D>


Too soon for Maltese members :(
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby MUTU » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:32 pm

Mani wrote:Manuel Neuer (C) : Hummels, Boateng and Muller ?They can help us." [SportBild]


Yeah Löw has lost the dressing room. Should just leave now

Just what I like to hear.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:47 pm

Mani wrote:Manuel Neuer (C) : Hummels, Boateng and Muller ?They can help us." [SportBild]


Yeah Löw has lost the dressing room. Should just leave now
It might be true then, that the players want Löw sacked. Retiring those three may have been deadly in the locker room given the strength and number of the Bayern group.

Germany has the players to be the best (or second best) NT in the world. No justification for losing 6-0 to a mediocre spain.

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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Fénix » Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:47 pm

Believe me, it's not all lost for Germany. It's just so untypical for the DFB to sack his NT coaches in the middle of some campaign or before Euro, but it's completely justified. We in Croatia sacked 3 NT coaches and every time in worse and worse situation went to the tournaments via play-offs.

Unlike Croatian 2012, 2014 and 2016 cases, Germany are qualified for Euros and they haven't played a single WC qualification match, yet. This all brings DFB in a good situation 7-8 months before the tournament to remove Löw and still find a guy who will shake the team all over again and bring the necessary energy and ideas.

It's crystal clear that Flick and Klopp aren't going to be NT coaches anytime soon because you don't leave so early such great and fantastic clubs and you still have 10-15 years of top coaching career in club football.

Tuchel, Nagelsmann, Rose are guys with whom you can try to ask if they are interested. Ralf Rangnick as well. Roger Schmidt is in Eindhoven and he isn't the candidate.
Maybe just to make a phone call Jupp Heynckes and see if some miracle can happen that Jupp says he is out of nowhere attracted to become a Bundestrainer even though it's so clear he isn't going to return.


Anyway, just sack the very lost case already and find one proper guy to take charge. It's not a shame to fire him.
5 Croatian coaches lost their jobs after the one Euro/World Cup campaign, 1 didn't want to continue and only 3 of them managed to stay more than one tournament since 1994.

Germany has had 4 coaches in the mentioned period of 26 years(Vogts, Völler, Klinsmann and Löw).
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby icewizard » Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:05 pm

MUTU wrote:I'm not sure the strongest lineup is bad.



Leaving Ter Stegen, Leno, Trapp, Bender, Ginter, Kehrer, Suele/Boateng, Can, Max/Halstenberg, Gosens, Kroos, Guendogan, Havertz, Reus and Brandt on the bench also provides quite some depth.


I think you meant Sané on the right wing, not Suele. :lol:

But yes i like this selection, it's the most that makes sense.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby MUTU » Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:39 pm

icewizard wrote:
MUTU wrote:I'm not sure the strongest lineup is bad.



Leaving Ter Stegen, Leno, Trapp, Bender, Ginter, Kehrer, Suele/Boateng, Can, Max/Halstenberg, Gosens, Kroos, Guendogan, Havertz, Reus and Brandt on the bench also provides quite some depth.


I think you meant Sané on the right wing, not Suele.

But yes i like this selection, it's the most that makes sense.

Haha woops, yeah.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Jorge » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:47 pm

icewizard wrote:
I think you meant Sané on the right wing, not Suele. :lol:


I think Suele on the right wing under Joachim Jogi Löw makes perfect sense.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Jorge » Thu Nov 19, 2020 2:51 pm

Manchu wrote:5. Loew's decision not to sub on Julian Brandt at half time was inexplicable (like all his decisions). If there is one thing Brandt has shown in his time at Dortmund, it's the ability to act as a gamechanger as a sub. Germany would have almost certainly still lost, but probably not so badly.


Do you really think that Brandt would have changed anything? Once a promising skillful young player, Brandt development is stagnant, I would say he had declined big time after his move to Dortmund. He is a bench warmer for a reason.
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Fénix » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:27 pm

Jorge wrote:
Manchu wrote:5. Loew's decision not to sub on Julian Brandt at half time was inexplicable (like all his decisions). If there is one thing Brandt has shown in his time at Dortmund, it's the ability to act as a gamechanger as a sub. Germany would have almost certainly still lost, but probably not so badly.


Do you really think that Brandt would have changed anything? Once a promising skillful young player, Brandt development is stagnant, I would say he had declined big time after his move to Dortmund. He is a bench warmer for a reason.

He is nowhere near what he was supposed to be by now. The same thing we can say for Ginter and Kramer yet they were nowhere near Brandt.

Then again we have Götze, Özil, Draxler and Schürrle - the most tragic crew who disappeared immediately after 2014. We can add Max Meyer and Julian Weigl, too.

Germany went off the cliff totally after 2014 in less than 2 years. :|
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Re: [2020-11-17] Spain vs Germany

Postby Jorge » Thu Nov 19, 2020 6:42 pm

Fénix wrote:He is nowhere near what he was supposed to be by now. The same thing we can say for Ginter and Kramer yet they were nowhere near Brandt.

Then again we have Götze, Özil, Draxler and Schürrle - the most tragic crew who disappeared immediately after 2014. We can add Max Meyer and Julian Weigl, too.

Germany went off the cliff totally after 2014 in less than 2 years. :|


It is interesting how Dortmund is the place where certain players become precocious assets, while other youngsters fail miserably. Many times we pay attention to the former, and not the latter.

Julian Weigl! I had lost track of him, we even once salivated the idea of bringing young Weigl back to his birthplace neighborhood, then he landed 2000 km away in Lisbon (well at least he is not freezing his nuts in the Russian league like Schürrle, but outside the pitch I gave Andre that he has a hot Russian wife).
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