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[2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:45 pm

Germany will win
10
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Sweden will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 10

Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Commodore » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:57 pm

So all it takes to win when it really matters is leadership type players that have the right "Winning Mentality", right?

Would guys like these fit the bill in your eyes?

the12th wrote:growing up i watched player like kahn, matheus, effe, basler


Let's see...

Spoiler: show


Remember that lineup? Right! It's the one we fielded one fateful Wednesday night in Barcelona in 1999. It includes each and everyone of the players from that quote of the12th. I'm sure you bunch of know-it-alls will have an explanation for our loss that night, won't you?

Was it all of the accumulated "Leadership Skills" somehow negating each other so we lost our "Winning Mentality"?
Did ManU simply have even more of these kinds of "Super Humans" in their squad and did they "Out Lead" us?
Was it our sucky coach (clearly one of the worst in history, no?) who wasn't able to instill into us that will to go the extra inch?

Please tell me what happened that night, because with all these great leaders on the pitch losing was an impossibility, wasn't it? I seriously wonder how our loss that night did not cause a rift in the space-time-continuum.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Commodore » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:02 pm

AvatarX wrote:I still remember watching WC 1990 or Euro 1996 and despite that in some matches we were losing I WAS DAMN SURE that we WILL bounce back.


Do you also remember the World Cup 1986 (Schumacher, Brehme, Matthäus, Briegel, Berthold, Allofs, Rummenigge)?
Do you also remember the EURO 1988 (Matthäus, Kohler, Brehme, KLinsmann)?
Do you also remember the EURO 1992 (Brehme, Buchwald, Helmer, Kohler, Sammer, Effenberg, Klinsmann)?
Do you also remember the World Cup 1994 (Matthäus, Berthold, Kohler, Helmer, Buchwald)?
Do you also remember the World Cup 1998 (Matthäus, Hamann, Klinsmann, Jeremies)?
Do you also remember the EURO 2000 (Kahn, Matthäus, Hamann, Ballack)?

What happened in these tournaments?
What did our "Great Leaders" do in those?
Were they "Mislead"?
Were their legs full of "Lead"?
"There are two things I am afraid of: War and Oliver Kahn."

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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Commodore » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:07 pm

The Spyware wrote:it's six years of EPIC FAILURE not just six years of Failure

This is pure denial to defend this bunch of losers , No need to write , analyze or write some fat words about this losing team
Captains = Losers
Coach = Loser
Mentality = Losing

We are now worse than England , they are always in my eyes the team that always have a false halo and saga about them and everytime they fail
Now we are a worse copy of that as also the supporters live in the same illusion

Enough


I'm sure supporting Germany was a conscious choice you made because they looked like "Winners" to you or whatever. Just go ahead, make another conscious choice and support England instead. At least then you wouldn't be supporting a team anymore that's even shittier than them. Or even better, pick the team you support for each competition after the competition is over and just support the winners.

Because, face it, what you're showing isn't support. Far from it. It's blatant hate and entitlement like the team owes you something.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby ballackfcb » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:14 pm

Commodore wrote:
AvatarX wrote:I still remember watching WC 1990 or Euro 1996 and despite that in some matches we were losing I WAS DAMN SURE that we WILL bounce back.


Do you also remember the World Cup 1986 (Schumacher, Brehme, Matthäus, Briegel, Berthold, Allofs, Rummenigge)?
Do you also remember the EURO 1988 (Matthäus, Kohler, Brehme, KLinsmann)?
Do you also remember the EURO 1992 (Brehme, Buchwald, Helmer, Kohler, Sammer, Effenberg, Klinsmann)?
Do you also remember the World Cup 1994 (Matthäus, Berthold, Kohler, Helmer, Buchwald)?
Do you also remember the World Cup 1998 (Matthäus, Hamann, Klinsmann, Jeremies)?
Do you also remember the EURO 2000 (Kahn, Matthäus, Hamann, Ballack)?

What happened in these tournaments?
What did our "Great Leaders" do in those?
Were they "Mislead"?

Were their legs full of "Lead"?


Ballack played less than 30 mins at euro 2000. :wink:
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby the12th » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:23 pm

Commodore wrote:
The Spyware wrote:it's six years of EPIC FAILURE not just six years of Failure

This is pure denial to defend this bunch of losers , No need to write , analyze or write some fat words about this losing team
Captains = Losers
Coach = Loser
Mentality = Losing

We are now worse than England , they are always in my eyes the team that always have a false halo and saga about them and everytime they fail
Now we are a worse copy of that as also the supporters live in the same illusion

Enough


I'm sure supporting Germany was a conscious choice you made because they looked like "Winners" to you or whatever. Just go ahead, make another conscious choice and support England instead. At least then you wouldn't be supporting a team anymore that's even shittier than them. Or even better, pick the team you support for each competition after the competition is over and just support the winners.

Because, face it, what you're showing isn't support. Far from it. It's blatant hate and entitlement like the team owes you something.




Ok let's see, 1999, everything went south when lothar was subbed, and then again bayern bounced back by winning champions league in '01. every single time national team failed, they still bounced back in couple of years.

for fcuk's sake COMMODORE, it's not about supporting a winning team. GERMANY always had it's own style of play, calculative, stonecold, and I hate the fact that right now it feels like they are a bunch of hopeless kids.
the match when I understood that I would support bayern for life was '99 final, even though they lost they where the team that deserved respect.

I can say that I love bayern and germany, and when i see that there are very small stupid thing keeping them from winning I get angry. and if you think that the teams don't owe anything to the fans, you just miss the idea of competitive sport.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby MUTU » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:25 pm

Lol I am now convinced that ballackfcb's browser homepage is a search on BayernForum.com for the search term "ballack". Hardly any mention of him gets by him.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby quaazi » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:36 pm

Commodore wrote:So all it takes to win when it really matters is leadership type players that have the right "Winning Mentality", right?


No, the difference is that technically, physically and tactically, these players are better than ever before. The mythical "winning generation" was not always superior or even equal to their peers, but they had a strength they could bank on.

It's a change in style more than anything else, really. A style that brought many people to be fans of Germany, and now that it is changing, they are distraught.

Stop with the fallacy that "winning mentality" = "winning", though.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby walter » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:48 pm

Commodore wrote:So all it takes to win when it really matters is leadership type players that have the right "Winning Mentality", right?

Would guys like these fit the bill in your eyes?

the12th wrote:growing up i watched player like kahn, matheus, effe, basler


Let's see...

Spoiler: show


Remember that lineup? Right! It's the one we fielded one fateful Wednesday night in Barcelona in 1999. It includes each and everyone of the players from that quote of the12th. I'm sure you bunch of know-it-alls will have an explanation for our loss that night, won't you?

Was it all of the accumulated "Leadership Skills" somehow negating each other so we lost our "Winning Mentality"?
Did ManU simply have even more of these kinds of "Super Humans" in their squad and did they "Out Lead" us?
Was it our sucky coach (clearly one of the worst in history, no?) who wasn't able to instill into us that will to go the extra inch?

Please tell me what happened that night, because with all these great leaders on the pitch losing was an impossibility, wasn't it? I seriously wonder how our loss that night did not cause a rift in the space-time-continuum.


not to rain on your parade, but Matthaus got subbed out before ManUre turned the game around. Big NO-NO there!
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby MUTU » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:05 pm

quaazi wrote:
Commodore wrote:So all it takes to win when it really matters is leadership type players that have the right "Winning Mentality", right?


No, the difference is that technically, physically and tactically, these players are better than ever before. The mythical "winning generation" was not always superior or even equal to their peers, but they had a strength they could bank on.

It's a change in style more than anything else, really. A style that brought many people to be fans of Germany, and now that it is changing, they are distraught.

Stop with the fallacy that "winning mentality" = "winning", though.

Agreed. Let's use "giving their 200 percent when it matters most" instead. Those legends that Commodore mentioned lost matches, but they didn't just throw them away either. They went down fighting, (almost) always. You would never have called them a bunch of pussies.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby MaCk0y » Wed Oct 17, 2012 4:36 pm



If anyone wants to see the second half horror show, tell me.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby AvatarX » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:48 pm

Commodore wrote:
AvatarX wrote:I still remember watching WC 1990 or Euro 1996 and despite that in some matches we were losing I WAS DAMN SURE that we WILL bounce back.


Do you also remember the World Cup 1986 (Schumacher, Brehme, Matthäus, Briegel, Berthold, Allofs, Rummenigge)?
Do you also remember the EURO 1988 (Matthäus, Kohler, Brehme, KLinsmann)?
Do you also remember the EURO 1992 (Brehme, Buchwald, Helmer, Kohler, Sammer, Effenberg, Klinsmann)?
Do you also remember the World Cup 1994 (Matthäus, Berthold, Kohler, Helmer, Buchwald)?
Do you also remember the World Cup 1998 (Matthäus, Hamann, Klinsmann, Jeremies)?
Do you also remember the EURO 2000 (Kahn, Matthäus, Hamann, Ballack)?

What happened in these tournaments?
What did our "Great Leaders" do in those?
Were they "Mislead"?
Were their legs full of "Lead"?


Actually yes, I remember those along with WC 1982 - the first tournament I watched.

Great leadership and fighting spirit does not mean ALWAYS winning titles (no one always does), but sometimes you win - like in 1990 and 1996.

But when for several years you lose in critical matches and do not win a trophy, or you let Sweden equalize with 4 goals in 30 min (with hands down), then IMO you have a problem in those areas...
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby The Spyware » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:57 pm

Commodore wrote:
I'm sure supporting Germany was a conscious choice you made because they looked like "Winners" to you or whatever. Just go ahead, make another conscious choice and support England instead. At least then you wouldn't be supporting a team anymore that's even shittier than them. Or even better, pick the team you support for each competition after the competition is over and just support the winners.

Because, face it, what you're showing isn't support. Far from it. It's blatant hate and entitlement like the team owes you something.


You are playing out of tune you went completely for an imaginary point not related at all to my post
and it's false also btw

You have to make a conscious decision your self and take a look at the truth instead of continuing that denial
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Commodore » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:05 pm

Pierson from bavarianfootballworks just posted this article:

Some Numbers from the German National Team

Apart from the Klinsmann stuff, this could as well have been penned by me. Not because I want Klinsmann back, but because I didn't think there were actual people who did, lol. Apparently a few people in his comments section were calling for Klinsmann back, though.

bavarianfootballworks wrote: We MUST win every match, or it's time to panic and fire the coach. Is that what we should understand here?
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby quaazi » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:16 pm

Like I said there, almost 1 goal per game conceded is NOT a record to be proud of.
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Re: [2012-10-16] Germany vs Sweden

Postby Commodore » Wed Oct 17, 2012 7:04 pm

Winning 21 of 24 is though (I know, "when it really matters" blabla).
And whatever our defensive record, the notion that we must win every match is a ridiculous one.

I can't post over there right now, as they have to approve my account first (and how the **** is "Commodore" taken?), but I'd be interested who in the last 30 years you think was a bad coach to win the World Cup?
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