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[2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:45 pm

Germany will win
1
25%
It will end in a draw
1
25%
Spain will win
2
50%
 
Total votes : 4

Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby Manchu » Fri Sep 04, 2020 6:53 am

I have to say, this was about the worst I've ever seen Germany play. The NT has had much worst results but it must be a decade or more since they approached the game in such an awful, cynical, cowardly manner. Low must go. And Draxler doesn't deserve another start, ever. I was apathetic toward the game early on but by the end I was cheering for the Spanish to score since I knew a win would be considered the result of Low's "genius" cynical tactics.

Werner, despite his goal, generally demonstrated why he might become an utter flop at Chelsea, and he didn't even have to face a low block.

I feel like Sane would work much better on the left. He kept trying to bring everything to his left foot and that slowed him down on the right. His lack of a right foot prevented him from driving straight toward the baseline as often as he should have.
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby America USA » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:12 am

Manchu wrote:I have to say, this was about the worst I've ever seen Germany play. The NT has had much worst results but it must be a decade or more since they approached the game in such an awful, cynical, cowardly manner. Low must go. And Draxler doesn't deserve another start, ever. I was apathetic toward the game early on but by the end I was cheering for the Spanish to score since I knew a win would be considered the result of Low's "genius" cynical tactics.

Werner, despite his goal, generally demonstrated why he might become an utter flop at Chelsea, and he didn't even have to face a low block.

I feel like Sane would work much better on the left. He kept trying to bring everything to his left foot and that slowed him down on the right. His lack of a right foot prevented him from driving straight toward the baseline as often as he should have.

Hey man good to have you back. You always have useful insights on Germany/Bayern. I know I’ve sometimes been a jerk to you over here so I apologize for that but I seriously think this forum is a better place because of constructive views like yours. :thumbup:

————

Re: Your analysis.. I agree Werner is super wasteful and not clinical enough. Yes he scored a pretty good chance but that was after missing some seriously good ones.

Although I wasn’t cheering for Spain (one of my top 3 most hated NTs) since despite Löw I still can’t help but cheer for Germany but I do think it was fitting that Löw got exposed yet again for his preposterous tactics and bizarre subs.

Also I agree that Sané is too left footed but so was Robben and he was a super hit RW. Even Sané can cut in and score from the RW position with his left foot (his goal against Real Madrid in 2015 comes to mind) How likely do you think Flick is gonna experiment with Sané at RW and Serge at LW?
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby bmguy » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:20 am

Sane is not better than Coman, and way overrated. The fact that we pay him the highest wage (£385,000-a-week) is ridiculous :roll:

It would cause Lewandowski, Neuer and Cos demand for fair wage and break our wage fund.
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby YlonenXabi » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:22 am

I missed the match, but I don't think many conclusions should be taken from it. Keep in mind that it was Germany and Spain's first football match in a very long time and most of the players are still in the early stages of the pre season.

Being rusty, out of shape or tired after 50 min is perfectly normal.


Also both teams were missing important players. Germany can only get better with Neuer, Kimmich, Goretzka and Gnabry =P~
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby nm462272 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 8:35 am

I believe Sane said in the last week that his preferred position is RW?
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby MUTU » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:07 am

I think yesterday was a case of Loew getting lucky with Trapp. Both keepers were good yesterday, and admittedly De Gea made better saves, but while De Gea is Spain's #1, Trapp played well above himself.

Also, what was that shit with him resting Bayern players when Spain played Thiago for 90 minutes, who is not only tired but also close to getting a transfer? Luckily he didn't get injured or we would have lost him on a free transfer in 10 months' time.
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:20 am

bmguy wrote:Sane is not better than Coman, and way overrated. The fact that we pay him the highest wage (£385,000-a-week) is ridiculous :roll:

It would cause Lewandowski, Neuer and Cos demand for fair wage and break our wage fund.
Judging Sané under Löw doesn’t let you draw conclusions about what he will be like under Flick. Löw has lost the plot. He has no idea what he’s doing and the whole team keeps regressing under him. Meanwhile Flick has gotten the best out of many players and has sound tactics.

I have some doubts too about Sané and I’m sure it’ll take him time to adjust, but I have no doubt that whatever happens, Sané will consistently perform better for Bayern than for the NT.
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:28 am

How Germany should line upImage
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby r10 » Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:00 pm

America USA wrote:If anyone needs to be exiled from the NT then it’s the following players: Reus
Don't forget Reus was 'Kicker' player of the year 2019 :twisted:
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby PunkCapitalist » Fri Sep 04, 2020 3:49 pm

Manchu wrote:I have to say, this was about the worst I've ever seen Germany play. The NT has had much worst results but it must be a decade or more since they approached the game in such an awful, cynical, cowardly manner. Low must go. And Draxler doesn't deserve another start, ever. I was apathetic toward the game early on but by the end I was cheering for the Spanish to score since I knew a win would be considered the result of Low's "genius" cynical tactics.

Werner, despite his goal, generally demonstrated why he might become an utter flop at Chelsea, and he didn't even have to face a low block.

I feel like Sane would work much better on the left. He kept trying to bring everything to his left foot and that slowed him down on the right. His lack of a right foot prevented him from driving straight toward the baseline as often as he should have.
Funny that you mention Sané "having" to run to the baseline. I don't want my inverted wingers to do that very much. That's what modern fullbacks are for. I want my inverted wingers to cut in from the wings to the center, which is easier if they have their stronger foot inside.

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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby IsiahRashad » Fri Sep 04, 2020 7:24 pm

LOOOOL. I can't believe what I'm reading.
Sané started his first game since 16th February 2019 and some of the guys already write him off, since he didn't score or assists or made something spectacular, despite being close to score in the first half, but De Gea made a great save and despite Sané himself claiming that he's at "80% at best".

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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby Jorge » Sat Sep 05, 2020 8:41 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I missed the match, but I don't think many conclusions should be taken from it. Keep in mind that it was Germany and Spain's first football match in a very long time and most of the players are still in the early stages of the pre season.

Being rusty, out of shape or tired after 50 min is perfectly normal.

Also both teams were missing important players. Germany can only get better with Neuer, Kimmich, Goretzka and Gnabry =P~


I am certain about one conclusion: Löw is struggling to figure out the most basic concept: how to finish a game that after 90 minutes is basically in the bag.To put it in context: Germany has not won a single game in the Nations League, which is basically the only competition where Low faced meaningful competition since the 2018 WC fiasco.

Add that he let this win slip away basically with the last kick of the game, and it is not the first time that happens. Remember the last game of the Group stage in Gelsenkirchen vs The Netherlands: Sane and Werner scored within the first 20 minutes and the Dutch hit back with 2 after 85 minutes, the last one also being the last kick of the game, or the game vs France in Saint-Denis with Germany leading 0:1 at halftime only to completely deflate in the second half.

I still can't believe that Low refuses to call Muller back while Draxler has a place in the team. Draxler is basically done as a footballer, he will be 27 this month and a bench warmer at PSG.
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby Manchu » Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:33 am

America USA wrote:Hey man good to have you back. You always have useful insights on Germany/Bayern. I know I’ve sometimes been a jerk to you over here so I apologize for that but I seriously think this forum is a better place because of constructive views like yours. :thumbup:

————

I don't think you've ever been that mean to mean, but thanks for the appology and praise. I read this forum a lot, I just don't post that often.

America USA wrote:Re: Your analysis.. I agree Werner is super wasteful and not clinical enough. Yes he scored a pretty good chance but that was after missing some seriously good ones.

To be clear, that wasn't quite the issue with Werner's game I was talking about. I was thinking more about how his tactical limitations made it very difficult for the German team to attack. Werner can't do holdup play, so the German team had no outlet. Werner can't really impose himself in the center or the box, so he has to drift to the outside to get touches on the ball. But then issue becomes that Werner isn't really a winger and can't really dribble, in addition to lacking a mental approach of a winger. He gets the ball wide and can't really create anything.

All of these problems have generally been very apparent whenever Werner plays outside the confines of RB Lepzig's system, with its counterattacking focus and leading striker for Werner to play off of, and I suspect that they will be even more glaring when he plays for Chelsea. Klopp might have been able utilize him effectively, but Lampard is no Klopp. Also, Werner is a secondary striker, and in general, with one very notable exception, secondary strikers rarely succeed in attacking, possession based systems.

America USA wrote:Also I agree that Sané is too left footed but so was Robben and he was a super hit RW. Even Sané can cut in and score from the RW position with his left foot (his goal against Real Madrid in 2015 comes to mind) How likely do you think Flick is gonna experiment with Sané at RW and Serge at LW?

PunkCapitalist wrote:Funny that you mention Sané "having" to run to the baseline. I don't want my inverted wingers to do that very much. That's what modern fullbacks are for. I want my inverted wingers to cut in from the wings to the center, which is easier if they have their stronger foot inside.

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To make this clear, I generally don't watch that much of the Premier League and I don't like watching Man City(unless they're losing), so I've seen far less of Sane at City than many have. Still, since people are interested, I will offer my two cents on the issue.

So one of things with Robben is that, despite being famous for cutting inside, he also very frequently drove to the endline, often so that he could cut in and whip in a cross with his left foot. Meanwhile, our other inverted winger, Ribery, also often drove to endline, making many deadly crosses with his left foot. Using overlapping fullbacks helps take away the disadvantages of cutting inside, but sometimes, when a defender is showing you too much outside, the rewards of going to the endline are too high to ignore. It was under those circumstances which I noticed Sane was reluctant to use his pace and drive toward the endline. Our experience with Coutinho this season shows the problem with a winger who only wants to and only can cut inside.

Of course, within this game specifically part of the trouble is that Sane never got an overlapping run from his fullback/wingback. But that's a Low issue, not a Sane issue.

Meanwhile, and this is not a knock against Sane, I doubt he has the lethal cut-inside shot to make cutting in so incredibly worthwhile. The only player I can think of other than Robben who has ever had that shot nailed down well enough to form the basis of their tactical use is Messi. Meanwhile Sane has scored very few goals from the right over his career, and only a couple open play goals from outside the box on the right. Of course, part of this issue is lack of opportunity.

That brings me to my next point: during the entire time he's played at a World-class level(from the summer of 2017 onward), Sane has almost exclusively played on the left. I think the easiest way to integrate him is to keep him primarily there for the near future rather than have him try to learn how to play on the right at a top level while he's being integrated. Against Spain he often looked one step away from being world class, and the easiest way to bridge that gap is to put him in a comfortable position.

From a tactical perspective, Sane on the left is very lethal. Isolating him against a defender in the left half space allows him to drive to the baseline and take a dangerous shot or hitting a low cross across the six(Sane can also mix it up a bit, but that's where he's most consistently dangerous). Ironically, where Perisic really shines is under the same circumstances, so we know that kind of play can work within Flick's tactics.

Meanwhile, our other wingers(aside from Perisic, if he stays) play equally well on both sides and even semi-frequently switch sides during a game, so there isn't a real reason why we have to have Sane play on the right. And that brings me to my next point: with Gnabry in particular, we've moved somewhat away from the ideal of inverted wingers over the last few seasons.

I have seen Sane play on the right in Bayern training, so I suspect what will happen is that he will play some on both sides this season, and we'll end up having lively debates about which side he is better on.
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Re: [2020-09-03] Germany vs Spain

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:47 pm

U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
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