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[2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Fri Sep 06, 2019 7:45 pm

Germany will win
1
100%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Netherlands will win
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 1

Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby #12 » Sun Sep 08, 2019 10:41 am

Ed. wrote:
#12 wrote:Nope, probably not even them, so what?

and 96 they were VERY lucky


You mean the Euro winning side? Really?, I thought they were exceptional. If you mean the squad was average, then yes, Kuntz, eilts, a lot of the squad were mediocre but the performances were not. I think they won the tournament without a single defeat, beat the hosts and a very good Czech side in the final.

Now, the 2002 WC team, that was probably the most average and luckiest german NT, not least because they had a moron for a manager.


Well, they won on penalties and golden goal, player very badly, but yes, often turned around the games... IMHO largely to 2-3 players and mentality, so yeah, lucky
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby Jorge » Sun Sep 08, 2019 11:06 pm

Bayernbazi wrote:and Koemann wipes his ass with the German shirt after he exchanges his with Olaf Thon...if there was a stadium and a manager against whom they needed to fight tooth and nail this was it !Image


And the question is, do the current players care? Most likely not. Times have changed, passion in football still exists but it does not boil like back them. can you imagine if a Dutch player wipes his ass with a German shirt in 2019? There will a bunch a people crying like pussies: "he offended us" "he is mean", "he is racist", and so on. Back them the gesture was meant to offend, the recipient for sure got offended but that was the driver to go stronger for the next encounter.

I can't imagine a player like Ozil (just one example) growing balls if a Dutch offended the Mannschaft in a similar way in recent years.
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby #12 » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:23 pm

Good to know that was the reason they won and not desire to win the gold medal! Glad we cleared that up
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby Jorge » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:50 am

#12 wrote:Good to know that was the reason they won and not desire to win the gold medal! Glad we cleared that up

I get the sarcasm, but if you ever played the game you should know that it is not always black and white.

I clearly remember an Interview with Ruud Gullit after the Group stage in Italy 1990. The Netherlands had finished in a 3 way tied in first place with England and Ireland, so they did not know their rivals in the round of 16th and the possible options were: Romania, Belgium and Germany. When asked about which one he preferred Gullit was categorical: Germany.

While I am sure that he wanted to lift the trophy in Rome, I am convinced about the reasons why he wanted to play the strongest of the 3 that early, even at the expense of risking an early exit.
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:08 pm

Jorge wrote:
#12 wrote:Good to know that was the reason they won and not desire to win the gold medal! Glad we cleared that up

I get the sarcasm, but if you ever played the game you should know that it is not always black and white.

I clearly remember an Interview with Ruud Gullit after the Group stage in Italy 1990. The Netherlands had finished in a 3 way tied in first place with England and Ireland, so they did not know their rivals in the round of 16th and the possible options were: Romania, Belgium and Germany. When asked about which one he preferred Gullit was categorical: Germany.

While I am sure that he wanted to lift the trophy in Rome, I am convinced about the reasons why he wanted to play the strongest of the 3 that early, even at the expense of risking an early exit.
Men of yesteryear
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:22 pm

Jorge wrote:
#12 wrote:Good to know that was the reason they won and not desire to win the gold medal! Glad we cleared that up

I get the sarcasm, but if you ever played the game you should know that it is not always black and white.

I clearly remember an Interview with Ruud Gullit after the Group stage in Italy 1990. The Netherlands had finished in a 3 way tied in first place with England and Ireland, so they did not know their rivals in the round of 16th and the possible options were: Romania, Belgium and Germany. When asked about which one he preferred Gullit was categorical: Germany.

While I am sure that he wanted to lift the trophy in Rome, I am convinced about the reasons why he wanted to play the strongest of the 3 that early, even at the expense of risking an early exit.


Being? Hate? Feud? Vendetta?
I think being civil does not exclude rivalry... Maybe it HAS changed but not the way you guys portray it here...

And I've played the game long enough to know attitude is decisive... Hatred is not...
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:22 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
Jorge wrote:
#12 wrote:Good to know that was the reason they won and not desire to win the gold medal! Glad we cleared that up

I get the sarcasm, but if you ever played the game you should know that it is not always black and white.

I clearly remember an Interview with Ruud Gullit after the Group stage in Italy 1990. The Netherlands had finished in a 3 way tied in first place with England and Ireland, so they did not know their rivals in the round of 16th and the possible options were: Romania, Belgium and Germany. When asked about which one he preferred Gullit was categorical: Germany.

While I am sure that he wanted to lift the trophy in Rome, I am convinced about the reasons why he wanted to play the strongest of the 3 that early, even at the expense of risking an early exit.
Men of yesteryear


Tell us about it grandpa
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:53 pm

#12 wrote:
Jorge wrote:
#12 wrote:Good to know that was the reason they won and not desire to win the gold medal! Glad we cleared that up

I get the sarcasm, but if you ever played the game you should know that it is not always black and white.

I clearly remember an Interview with Ruud Gullit after the Group stage in Italy 1990. The Netherlands had finished in a 3 way tied in first place with England and Ireland, so they did not know their rivals in the round of 16th and the possible options were: Romania, Belgium and Germany. When asked about which one he preferred Gullit was categorical: Germany.

While I am sure that he wanted to lift the trophy in Rome, I am convinced about the reasons why he wanted to play the strongest of the 3 that early, even at the expense of risking an early exit.


Being? Hate? Feud? Vendetta?
I think being civil does not exclude rivalry... Maybe it HAS changed but not the way you guys portray it here...

And I've played the game long enough to know attitude is decisive... Hatred is not...
The Dutch, French, Italians, English, Russians, Belgians, Austrians,

The all...
hate Germans....

But Germans don't hate back (maybe the Italians)
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:10 pm

ramsej84 wrote:
#12 wrote:
Jorge wrote:[quote="#12"]Good to know that was the reason they won and not desire to win the gold medal! Glad we cleared that up

I get the sarcasm, but if you ever played the game you should know that it is not always black and white.

I clearly remember an Interview with Ruud Gullit after the Group stage in Italy 1990. The Netherlands had finished in a 3 way tied in first place with England and Ireland, so they did not know their rivals in the round of 16th and the possible options were: Romania, Belgium and Germany. When asked about which one he preferred Gullit was categorical: Germany.

While I am sure that he wanted to lift the trophy in Rome, I am convinced about the reasons why he wanted to play the strongest of the 3 that early, even at the expense of risking an early exit.


Being? Hate? Feud? Vendetta?
I think being civil does not exclude rivalry... Maybe it HAS changed but not the way you guys portray it here...

And I've played the game long enough to know attitude is decisive... Hatred is not...
The Dutch, French, Italians, English, Russians, Belgians, Austrians,

The all...
hate Germans....

But Germans don't hate back (maybe the Italians)[/quote]

Wrong and wronger

I don’t need to hate people... But I hate the English NT... First and most important objective in every WC or EC is: if Germany can’t win, the dutch and the tommies shouldn’t either... Italians, well, not hate, think they were scum 2006... The rest is too insignificant for me to bother... Especially those weirdos that can’t speak German...

Also, what would hate grabt me/us?

Hate only generates hate... Maybe someday in your life you will actually listen to the teachings of that book you allegedly read and live by...
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby MUTU » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:19 pm

#12 wrote:Maybe someday in your life you will actually listen to the teachings of that book you allegedly read and live by...

This one? :mrgreen:

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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby r10 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:19 pm

#12 wrote:[...]
Pls learn quoting first.
If you pretend to be German.
Ordnung muß sein
and
Arbeit macht frei.
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:23 pm

Works for me, even off cell... Must be you learning to read then...
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby Jorge » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:01 pm

I do not think that disliking is the same as hatred, and that's the limit for me (and the way I saw it at the time) Maybe because I am not German or Dutch, maybe because I do not take nationalism to that extreme and I put humankind and rationale above flags.

When Koeman wiped his ass with the German flag he wasn't expressing hatred. Hatred blinds people to the point that they kill. Koeman would't have killed Olaf Thon or any of the German players; but he wouldn't hesitate to show his displeasure.
Part of the rivalry not being as heated today has to do with both countries and the players being more diverse and inclusive. Those references to times of national interests and political manipulation of the masses leading to violence are not directly connected to the bloodline of most of the players, in some cases because their ancestry is not rooted in these countries, or because they are 3rd or 4th generation and have lived all their lives in a different world.

I miss the more provocative rivalry, the display of balls to the opponent, I do not miss the violence for a minute. I miss the display of distaste recounted above, I do not miss the scenes of the Heysel Stadium. This while I detest the pussy-like attitude of some players that do not embrace their adoptive country when they wear the jersey.

BTW, I am not a grandpa; just old enough that I do not eat 3 liquid meals a day or take my dog to the office.
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby Fénix » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:55 am

Jorge wrote:I miss the more provocative rivalry, the display of balls to the opponent,

The whole definition of a football rivalry was all about display of balls, clashes, arguments, fights on and off the pitch, 4-5 weeks of preparations before club derbies as well as NT derbies.
Wimps took control, men's testosterone significantly decreased in the last 2 decades, money corrupted everything and took all attention and control thus eliminating the pure joy, but above everything - 1995 and Bosman/EU had changed absolutely everything in European football when foreigners started to be a driving force in big clubs.
As we can see, in Latin America it's still red-hot, River - Boca in Copa Libertadores was a pure example how passion is still very active unlike in Europe where you no longer can see 7-9 domestic players and of that 4-5 homegrown players from the city and near area in the starting line-ups to represent their city, way of life, culture, values, etc. In Brazil they even use weapons, ie guns and even rifles which is absolutely insane and has nothing to do with life, not football.
Older generations and my generation really misses the whole spectacle we used to have 15-20-25 years ago, because football was more than just sport, but today it is literally more than just sport, however no longer for fans and ordinary mortals, but for players who earn at the age of 18 that older players needed to piss blood in late 20's and 30's despite their qualities, even world-class quality and reputation.
Basically every World Cup in the last 21 years was a messenger of changes in football, especially after Korea and Japan 2002. The last real football World Cup was in Germany 2006 and the last Euro was 2008.

I also remember what Frank Rijkaard did to Rudi Völler in 1990, he spat on him.
Image

But then again few years later...

Image

World Cup stunning moments: Frank Rijkaard and Rudi Völler [source]


Spoiler: show
The rivalry between Holland and West Germany, as they were then known, was and remains notoriously fierce. Its roots are in the second world war and the mutual loathing of both teams and sets of fans intensified after “The Mother of all Defeats”, when the Germans famously triumphed over the Dutch in the 1974 World Cup final.

At the 1980 European Championships, the German goalkeeper Toni Schumacher was assaulted by the Dutchman Huub Stevens in another German victory, while the Dutch exacted some measure of revenge eight years later, when Marco van Basten sent Holland through to the final at Germany’s expense on a night when his team-mate Ronald Koeman enraged German sensibilities by pretending to wipe his backside with Olaf Thon’s shirt. The following year they were further incited during a qualifier for Italia 90 in Rotterdam, when Dutch fans unfurled a giant banner comparing the German captain, Lothar Matthäus, to Adolf Hitler. One did not need to be a rune-reader to predict their meeting in the second round of Italia 90 was likely to be spicy.

Like most matches between West Germany and the Netherlands it was a bad-tempered affair. Having topped Group D ahead of Yugoslavia and Colombia in second and third place, Völler and his team-mates, who would go on to win the match and the tournament, had earned a berth in a decidedly tricky second-round eliminator against their old foes in Milan’s San Siro. The format of Italia 90 meant the top two teams in each of the six groups progressed to the second round, where they were joined by the four best third-placed teams from the group stages. With Ruud Gullit and Mick McCarthy having agreed, with 20 minutes or so to go, to play out a draw in their final group game at Palermo’s Stadio La Favorita to shaft Egypt and ensure they both went through, the Dutch and Jack Charlton’s Republic of Ireland finished with identical records behind England in Group F. It was the Dutch who drew the short straw that pitted them against Germany, while the Republic of Ireland advanced to play against and beat Romania.


This used to be football and for the last 10-11 years we have seen wimps, models and rich immature, unproven players with 4-16 million € netto crying because they failed to qualify to the CL group stage. :lol: :lol: :lol: Football has definitely changed a lot in the last 15 years. :)
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Re: [2019-09-06] Germany vs Netherlands

Postby #12 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:17 pm

Another "the good old days dude"... Tell you what: a **** that spits on me will never ever see me reconcile... wimp me this!
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