FC Bayern Forum

MatchBot · by **MatchBot** » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:15 pm

Competition: UEFA Nations League
Venue: Veltins-Arena, Gelsenkirchen
Kick off:

Previous encounters:

[2018-10-13] Netherlands 3 - 0 Germany (UEFA Nations League)
[2012-11-14] Netherlands 0 - 0 Germany (International Friendly)
[2012-06-13] Netherlands 1 - 2 Germany (UEFA EURO 2012) — neutral venue
[2011-11-15] Germany 3 - 0 Netherlands (International Friendly)

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:49 am

Players available:

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:51 am

Roonzil · by **Roonzil** » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:42 pm

Soooooo, relegated eh? :coffee:

icewizard · by **icewizard** » Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:59 pm

Well we'll come back stronger. Just a matter of time.

Sent from my H8324 using Tapatalk

America USA · by **America USA** » Sat Nov 17, 2018 1:18 am

I want Netherlands to win the Group so just this one time I will be rooting against Germany.

Also maybe a home defeat against main rivals will hopefully be the final nail in Löw’s Bundestrainer coffin :twisted:

bmguy · by **bmguy** » Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:00 am

it's not only his fault, bundesliga have no longer produced good attacking players

Lukas · by **Lukas** » Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:17 am

Won't be watching. Third Germany match in a row I have no interest in. Hope the dutch humiliate them again though

#notmygermany

bmguy · by **bmguy** » Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:17 am

MUTU wrote:

3-4-3 from now on man :mrgreen:

America USA · by **America USA** » Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:48 pm

bmguy wrote:it's not only his fault, bundesliga have no longer produced good attacking players

Germany still have decent enough players to NOT finish bottom of a World Cup Group that included Korea and Mexico and to NOT get relegated.

See my second post on Page No. 217 in the General German National Team Discussion Thread. Germany have pretty damn good players to play quick vertical football with a back three system. There’s enough pace and talented forwards to score and defensive solidity to win. However, it is Löw’s fault for his bullshit high line tactics (with slow CBs and the FBs playing near the opponents goal) and mindless possession with backwards and sideways passing with no forward looking passes. Löw is an incompetent fraud. Germany won the 2014 World Cup despite him not because of him. The brainiac tried to screw it up at the beginning with Lahm in midfield and Götze as false 9. With the talent that Germany had between 2008-2016, Germany really should’ve won one Euro. 2012 loss to Italy is on him although the 2016 defeat can be attributed to various factors.

I keep reading your posts about how Germany have pathetic attacking players yet yesterday Mbappe and Griezmann flopped hard! Netherlands’ Depay who was considered finished has turned it around. Spain are doing nothing with guys like Saul, Asensio, Pedro and Costa in attack.

IMO Germany is still producing decent enough talent (maybe not Messi level if that’s your definition of the Gold Standard for “good attacking players”) to compete at the very top level in major tournaments. Just a few positions need to be fixed before the Mannschaft can challenge France, Belgium, Spain, etc.

FCB12Forever · by **FCB12Forever** » Sat Nov 17, 2018 11:16 pm

Lukas wrote:Won't be watching. Third Germany match in a row I have no interest in. Hope the dutch humiliate them again though

#notmygermany

Jovic 5 goals in 8 minutes in the b league incoming

My two cents: humiliation incoming if Kroos starts. He does not mix with the pace of Sane/Werner/Gnabry

It will be a team struggling between two systems and can barely beat Vietnam.

bmguy · by **bmguy** » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:32 am

America USA wrote:
bmguy wrote:it's not only his fault, bundesliga have no longer produced good attacking players

Germany still have decent enough players to NOT finish bottom of a World Cup Group that included Korea and Mexico and to NOT get relegated.

See my second post on Page No. 217 in the General German National Team Discussion Thread. Germany have pretty damn good players to play quick vertical football with a back three system. There’s enough pace and talented forwards to score and defensive solidity to win. However, it is Löw’s fault for his bullshit high line tactics (with slow CBs and the FBs playing near the opponents goal) and mindless possession with backwards and sideways passing with no forward looking passes. Löw is an incompetent fraud. Germany won the 2014 World Cup despite him not because of him. The brainiac tried to screw it up at the beginning with Lahm in midfield and Götze as false 9. With the talent that Germany had between 2008-2016, Germany really should’ve won one Euro. 2012 loss to Italy is on him although the 2016 defeat can be attributed to various factors.

I keep reading your posts about how Germany have pathetic attacking players yet yesterday Mbappe and Griezmann flopped hard! Netherlands’ Depay who was considered finished has turned it around. Spain are doing nothing with guys like Saul, Asensio, Pedro and Costa in attack.

IMO Germany is still producing decent enough talent (maybe not Messi level if that’s your definition of the Gold Standard for “good attacking players”) to compete at the very top level in major tournaments. Just a few positions need to be fixed before the Mannschaft can challenge France, Belgium, Spain, etc.

Maybe you forgot that at the wc time, Gnabry was injured, Sane was given time to adapt to the team playing style but he couldn't make it in time. What else on the wing Loew could have called up, nothing. Mark Uth might not be better than Gomez and at such a big stage, it's too risky to roll a luck without any trial. And with the ozil nonsense turmoil, you cannot concentrate enough at such high intense tournament.

Yes, I agree, Loew was responsible for some of his weird team picks and his outdated playing style, but do you have any other nominees to replace him at the moment ? All decent German coaches are not available and not yet ready for the job. maybe a guy from U21 team but it's such a risk that noone dares to take.

You keep saying Germany is still producing decent enough attacking talent, give me some names that can start and make good impact in any Bundesliga 1 or bundesliga 2 team, please. The fact that teams in the country are afraid of giving opportunities to youngsters become a norm nowadays. Look at what Hamburg have done to Arp and former Bayern Wintzheimer, they still put faith on a Lasogga who was one of their biggest culprits to fail last year.

Someone like Jadon Sancho or Jovic phenomenon is almost nonexisting in german football.

America USA · by **America USA** » Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:47 am

bmguy wrote:Maybe you forgot that at the wc time, Gnabry was injured, Sane was given time to adapt to the team playing style but he couldn't make it in time. What else on the wing Loew could have called up, nothing. Mark Uth might not be better than Gomez and at such a big stage, it's too risky to roll a luck without any trial. And with the ozil nonsense turmoil, you cannot concentrate enough at such high intense tournament.

Yes, I agree, Loew was responsible for some of his weird team picks and his outdated playing style, but do you have any other nominees to replace him at the moment ? All decent German coaches are not available and not yet ready for the job. maybe a guy from U21 team but it's such a risk that noone dares to take.

This is bullshit. Löw could’ve done many things differently at/before the WC that would have helped. For starters no favoritism would’ve been great. Khedira and Gomez should never have been selected. Wagner was at the time robbed. Rudy or Meyer at the time should’ve been picked ahead of Khedira. Ozil should never have been in the squad to begin with and Müller on the RW was a colossal disaster. Brandt and Reus should’ve been starting wingers. And lastly selecting freshly recovered players like Neuer and Boateng was a big mistake.

If all that wasn’t enough, his stubbornness to keep playing 4231 and arrogance with the possession based high line was enough to ensure failure of astronomical proportions.

I hope for the good of German football that Netherlands somehow win(or at least draw) on Monday. Löw is the NT version of Wenger who has stayed past his best and must be replaced sooner rather than later!

bmguy wrote:The fact that teams in the country are afraid of giving opportunities to youngsters become a norm nowadays. Look at what Hamburg have done to Arp and former Bayern Wintzheimer, they still put faith on a Lasogga who was one of their biggest culprits to fail last year.

Someone like Jadon Sancho or Jovic phenomenon is almost nonexisting in german football.

This I agree with. German clubs are suffering from this cancerous mentality of ignoring German youth and are following the PL route with recruiting so many foreigners in the roster. Hamburg’s treatment of Arp (and Wintzheimer) is disgusting and so is Bremen’s treatment of Eggestein (choosing Kruse ahead of him)

Right now only Leverkusen and Berlin are giving chances to the German players and props to them for that =D>

Re: You want names? Sane, Gnarby, Brandt, Havertz, Philipp (Dortmund) and Amiri (Hoffenheim) are some really good forward players. That’s enough depth for 2(3?) spots IMO. Add in Reus, Stindl, Demirbay and Hoffman for more decent choices.

#12 · by **#12** » Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:51 am

Brandt

And to be fair Lasogga had no share in HSV's demise...

Löw IS changing things... I don’t know if he will get this team back to the top 3 or anything, but this whole "he’s Wenger" shit and whatnot is premature as well... Put it whichever way you like, the players you mentioned are subpar... And you still have no name except for the ridiculous proposal of Kuntz...

America USA · by **America USA** » Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:28 pm

As aterford sunshine said in Kovac’s Thread. When the only reason you’re keeping a coach is because “there are no options” then you’ve got a problem and that’s no excuse for keeping a mediocre guy in the job.

Also you can “LOL” all you like at Brandt’s band but he looks good every time he plays for the NT. And yes Löw’s tenure as the Bundestrainer is very similar to what Wenger’s tenure at club level turned out with Arsenal. Both started off as great but because of arrogance stayed beyond their sell by date. I’ve followed both Arsenal very closely and Löw’s and Wenger’s drawbacks are eerily similar. Favoritism in selection and lineups, stubbornness in tactics, arrogance in doing the same thing again and expecting different results. The commonness is chillingly accurate.

The only reason why he’s “changed” after the Dutch demolition is because he knew that another demolition in France would’ve sealed his fate. He’s giving the youngsters a chance and not playing Muller/Boateng because of public pressure. This might yield short term results but I’ve lost confidence in his ability as a coach now.

The reality is that coaches who were great in the last decade (00-09) are now becoming dinosaurs as the game changes and moves forward. Wenger, Mourinho, Carlo are all becoming outdated now and time is catching up with Löw at the international level. He’s been in charge for over 12 years that’s a VERY long time to let opponents figure you out and beat you.

Also 12 I won’t respond to your inevitable next post because you love to have the last word. I don’t want to start a squabble with you again on this thread.

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