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[2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:00 pm

Germany will win
6
75%
It will end in a draw
0
No votes
Mexico will win
2
25%
 
Total votes : 8

Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:11 pm

tflags wrote:
icewizard wrote:
AvatarX wrote:Kroos is used to have a destroyer DM besides him. Either Kasemiro or Bastian in the past. Khedira is not that type. We have to use someone else to help defenders. Maybe Rudy or Goretska can help more.


Back in 2014, Toni Kroos was a CAM, not a CM or CDM. He made Özil slide on the left with Müller on the right... Starting CDMs were Schweinsteiger and Khedira...

That was a much more stable formation even if Özil is not a pacey winger and Müller is usually ineffective on the right... Still we managed to score more.


Not sure about that. Kroos hasn't played with two guys behind him since 2013.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA ... al#Details
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:14 pm

tflags wrote:So let me get this straight. Germany used computers to analyze statistics dating back to México 1970; experts to observe every player movement on and off the ball. Video analysis to compute passes and crosses between the lines. They trained the hell out of players and subs. Psychologists to care for everyone's mental well-being.

México brought 20 prostitutes to the hotel pool. Gotta love their training conditioning. :lol:

Haha, make it 30 actually! At the same time, Loew ruled out sex during the World Cup. Ironically, 90 minutes later and the Germans were well and truly f**ked anyway :) :lol:
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby tflags » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:19 pm

MUTU wrote:Not sure about that. Kroos hasn't played with two guys behind him since 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA ... al#Details


Oh. Did he play that game? Man I forgot he was there.
tflags

 

Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:26 pm

tflags wrote:
MUTU wrote:Not sure about that. Kroos hasn't played with two guys behind him since 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA ... al#Details


Oh. Did he play that game? Man I forgot he was there.

Oh yes, he was only the Castrol Player of the Tournament during that World Cup.

It's easy to forget and dismiss players who left Bayern, isn't it? In the meantime, this was you when he played for us:
kroos.PNG


Also in a match in which Thiago started alongside him ;)
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:27 pm

he also made a would be famous assist for Gonzalo Higuain
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:30 pm

ramsej84 wrote:he also made a would be famous assist for Gonzalo Higuain

It's never an assist when you pass to Higuain in a final. It's called trolling 8)
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby tflags » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:31 pm

MUTU wrote:
tflags wrote:
MUTU wrote:Not sure about that. Kroos hasn't played with two guys behind him since 2013.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIFA ... al#Details


Oh. Did he play that game? Man I forgot he was there.

Oh yes, he was only the Castrol Player of the Tournament during that World Cup.

It's easy to forget and dismiss players who left Bayern, isn't it? In the meantime, this was you when he played for us:
kroos.PNG


Also in a match in which Thiago started alongside him ;)


Castrol ratings? LOOOOL. Weren't those the ones which rated Gómez better than Messi? And yes, Kroos DID have a good game vs Arsenal and Villarreal (and Madrid) when I praised him. vs Argentina; not sure I saw him play.
tflags

 

Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:52 pm

tflags wrote:Castrol ratings? LOOOOL. Weren't those the ones which rated Gómez better than Messi?

Yes, that's why every time Gomez faced Messi he came out on top.

Sometimes, quite literally. Food for thought. 8)
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby tflags » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:30 pm

Well, Mario did score vs Barza while Messi didn't that year. (and it wasn't offside!!)
tflags

 

Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby DerKaiser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:40 pm

icewizard wrote:
AvatarX wrote:Kroos is used to have a destroyer DM besides him. Either Kasemiro or Bastian in the past. Khedira is not that type. We have to use someone else to help defenders. Maybe Rudy or Goretska can help more.


Back in 2014, Toni Kroos was a CAM, not a CM or CDM. He made Özil slide on the left with Müller on the right... Starting CDMs were Schweinsteiger and Khedira...

That was a much more stable formation even if Özil is not a pacey winger and Müller is usually ineffective on the right... Still we managed to score more.


Image

is so correct, kroos does not defend so stop putting him there
As long as no-one scored, it was always going to be close.’ – Arsene Wenger
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:09 pm

DerKaiser wrote:
icewizard wrote:
AvatarX wrote:Kroos is used to have a destroyer DM besides him. Either Kasemiro or Bastian in the past. Khedira is not that type. We have to use someone else to help defenders. Maybe Rudy or Goretska can help more.


Back in 2014, Toni Kroos was a CAM, not a CM or CDM. He made Özil slide on the left with Müller on the right... Starting CDMs were Schweinsteiger and Khedira...

That was a much more stable formation even if Özil is not a pacey winger and Müller is usually ineffective on the right... Still we managed to score more.


Image

is so correct, kroos does not defend so stop putting him there

Putting him 'there' is fine, if he's partnered with someone who's only role is to break down opponent attacks and have great work-rate. There isn't one in Germany's squad so he should play further up the pitch instead.
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:46 pm

Salihamidžić: “Correct. Dayot Upamecano will play for FC Bayern for the next five years."
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby aterford » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:08 pm

MUTU wrote:Putting him 'there' is fine, if he's partnered with someone who's only role is to break down opponent attacks and have great work-rate. There isn't one in Germany's squad so he should play further up the pitch instead.


I don't disagree with this, and ultimately a lot of blame falls on Löw for his tactical setup.

At the same time, you have to play the hand you're dealt, not the hand you wish you had.
Kroos played the whole match looking like he was waiting for Casemiro to show up to put in the defensive work for him. That's a problem. We can say "Kroos should play farther up the pitch" and that's not wrong - I agree with that. But it also doesn't do much good to say "Kroos should play farther up the pitch, so it's okay that he doesn't do the work that was being asked of him". Yeah, it's not his strength, and again I do blame Löw, but the coach getting the tactics/positioning wrong isn't totally an excuse for failing to perform your role as it's asked of you (even if it's not your best role). Dunno if that makes sense or not.
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:12 pm

aterford wrote:
MUTU wrote:Putting him 'there' is fine, if he's partnered with someone who's only role is to break down opponent attacks and have great work-rate. There isn't one in Germany's squad so he should play further up the pitch instead.


I don't disagree with this, and ultimately a lot of blame falls on Löw for his tactical setup.

At the same time, you have to play the hand you're dealt, not the hand you wish you had.
Kroos played the whole match looking like he was waiting for Casemiro to show up to put in the defensive work for him. That's a problem. We can say "Kroos should play farther up the pitch" and that's not wrong - I agree with that. But it also doesn't do much good to say "Kroos should play farther up the pitch, so it's okay that he doesn't do the work that was being asked of him". Yeah, it's not his strength, and again I do blame Löw, but the coach getting the tactics/positioning wrong isn't totally an excuse for failing to perform your role as it's asked of you (even if it's not your best role). Dunno if that makes sense or not.

Well, a lot of blame falls on Löw, I agree. He brought the engine of a Ferrari (Kroos) but has the chassis of a FIAT (Khedira). He could either have brought the chassis of a Ferrari (Can/Bender/Weigl/Kramer) or else he could have brought the engine of a FIAT so he could get something that at least works despite being inferior. Better than having 2 parts that don't work together.

PS: not saying Khedira is bad and Can/Bender/Weigl/Kramer are great, but defensively the latter players are better than Khedira.
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Re: [2018-06-17] Germany vs Mexico

Postby DerKaiser » Mon Jun 18, 2018 4:21 pm

For me this is a loss which is so much more bitter because it seems like half the team were chosen wrongly, its not being out played, although it probably should have been 4-0, but rather the same problem was obvious from the beginning and no changes were made, this is a fake coach who coasted as a top trainer only cause germany has always been so good. Equally disturbing is just seeing players on the pitch not giiving their all and come on, we all agree that confed cup team would have beaten that mexican team.
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