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[2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

What is your prediction for this match?

Poll ended at Thu Jun 28, 2012 8:45 pm

Germany will reach the final after 90 minutes
28
85%
Germany will reach the final after extra time
1
3%
Germany will reach the final after penalties
0
No votes
Italy will reach the final after penalties
0
No votes
Italy will reach the final after extra time
0
No votes
Italy will reach the final after 90 minutes
4
12%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby MUTU » Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:31 pm

Kicker is predicting the same formation as in the group stage but with Klose instead of Gomez, which means that I am not amused.
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby Jorge » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:32 pm

Ballack, Lehman, McMannaman and a few TV analysts as last night predicted Joachim Low to revert the line-up back to the group stage (Podolski and Muller starting) with the exception of Klose for Gomez because Klose familiarity with the Italian players and his chemistry with Özil. The only other name that can come as a surprise is Reus in for Podolski.

The most convincing explanation that I heard is that JLow’s changes versus Greece had two objectives: 1) to surprise Greece (which it did) and 2) to give some minutes to a group of players that might be needed in the last two games, so if through suspension, injuries or offensive needs Reus, Schurrle or Gotze are needed they will jump on the field with more confidence after having played already. Roberto Martinez made the point of a clueless Trochowski against Spain at the World Cup after Muller’s suspension indicating how much more seasoned as international manager Joachim Low is today.

The case for Podolski over Reus is experience and shot from long range based on the fact that Joachim Low is obsessed with having a wide range of weapons to make Germany unpredictable.

Personally I prefer Reus over Podolski to start because I believe Germany has more changes of dismantling the Italian defense dribbling and passing through rather than forcing the back line to step out to cover the shots from the edge of the area which also opens space on the back of the defenders.

But both approaches are valid, if Podolski comes having a good day he can send a couple of missiles to the back of the net and give a couple of killer passes as well.

If Klose starts I also can see Gomez jumping in at the 60th min mark regardless of the scoreline.
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby pierino » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:39 pm

you are the favorites

but you always fear ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

for you would be great to win .. :lol: :lol: for us it is normal :D :D
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby MUTU » Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:44 pm

pierino wrote:you are the favorites

but you always fear ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

for you would be great to win .. :lol: :lol: for us it is normal :D :D

So it will hurt you more when you lose your record against us :lol:
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby Jorge » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:04 pm

Somehow since I learned that Germany's SF opponent was Italy instead of thinking of the many times they denied Germany I can't get this goal at U21 level out of my head:
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby AvatarX » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:24 pm

One of the first matches I have watched was the WC1982 bitter final between Germany and Italy. We lost in Spain then, but at least we hold the trophy in their own ground 8 years later.

Today the best generation of German players after those of the early 90s will end an unlucky history against Italians and start our domination in European football.

Go Germany!
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby AvatarX » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:26 pm

pierino wrote:you are the favorites

but you always fear ...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

for you would be great to win .. :lol: :lol: for us it is normal :D :D


So, you stopped watching football in 2006?
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby Manjucri » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:45 pm

I feel for Kroos because this tournament could have been the stage to announce himself to the world. As it is, Khedira is playing well and it looks like he will sit out the whole tournament. Hopefully he takes this in his stride and works hard to improve his game.

I see 4 potential future tier 1 players (ie top 3-5 at their position in the world, at the peak of their career) coming up the ranks of the German NT - Oezil, Goetze, Kroos and Reus (Muller just missing out). Would have loved to see them gain experience and combine on the pitch during the Euros but other than Oezil, it looks like they will have to wait their turn. Hopefully Reus gets a good run out in place of Podolski.

Is it just me or is Poldi a major disappointment? He shows desire on the defensive end but his offensive game has stagnated. Cant dribbe or take on defenders, same old cut in penalty area and launch his trademark caveman rocket shot. Everytime Podolski plays on left mid that flank just shuts down. I think Reus is a far better option, even at this fledging stage of his career.
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby Jorge » Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:49 pm

AvatarX wrote:One of the first matches I have watched was the WC1982 bitter final between Germany and Italy. We lost in Spain then, but at least we hold the trophy in their own ground 8 years later.

Today the best generation of German players after those of the early 90s will end an unlucky history against Italians and start our domination in European football.

Go Germany!


I am a little older so I have some history before that but that loss against Italy in 1982 hurt.
Italy came out of nowhere because they had great players but not a cohesive team having survived the Group phase with 3 draws vs Poland, Peru and Cameroon (typical Italy), they actually were level with Cameroon on points and GD but edged Cameroon on goals scored in the group (only 2). In 1982 after the Group phase there was no knockout (I love that format) but another Group stage with stronger teams: Italy ended up with Brazil and Argentina and beat them both. Then beat the great Poland team in the SF easily, Germany instead went to play one of the best matches ever vs France, coming back from 3-1 in extra time to tie and win on PK's.
3 days later in the final the German team was not its own self after being drained out in the SF while Italy was at its best.
In 1990 the stage was set up for the rematch in Rome but a mediocre Argentina managed to knock the Italians out in the SF.
Last edited by Jorge on Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby BayernLeb » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:08 pm

We need Gomez in this game and Klose v.s Spain.

Gomez is physical and Italy's back line play more smart than tough, they will close a lot of gaps so what we saw against Greece (Klose+Ozil) wont work.
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby pierino » Thu Jun 28, 2012 3:24 pm

Jorge wrote:
AvatarX wrote:One of the first matches I have watched was the WC1982 bitter final between Germany and Italy. We lost in Spain then, but at least we hold the trophy in their own ground 8 years later.

Today the best generation of German players after those of the early 90s will end an unlucky history against Italians and start our domination in European football.

Go Germany!


I am a little older so I have some history before that but that lost against Italy in 1982 hurt.
Italy came out of nowhere because they had great players but not a cohesive team having survived the Group phase with 3 draws vs Poland, Peru and Cameroon (typical Italy), they actually were level with Cameroon on points and GD but edged Cameroon on goals scored in the group (only 2). Then in 1982 after the Group phase there was no knockout (I love that format) but another Group stage with stronger teams: Italy ended up with Brazil and Argentina and beat them both. Then beat the great Poland team in the SF easily, Germany instead went to play one of the best matches ever vs France, coming back from 3-1 in extra time to tie and win on PK's.
3 days later in the final the German team was not its own self after being drained out in the SF while Italy was at its best.
In 1990 the stage was set up for the rematch in Rome but a mediocre Argentina managed to knock the Italians out in the SF.


=D>

nice

that italy was invincible. one of the best victory in a world cup history.

[-o< Tardelli, Rossi, Cabrini, Zoff, Gentile, Scirea [-o< the Old Lady and her Knights =D> All italians heroes that year, all from Juventus
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby walter » Thu Jun 28, 2012 4:03 pm

Kicker is predicting the same formation as in the group stage but with Klose instead of Gomez, which means that I am not amused.


No worries, Mutu. Loew is saving Gomez for a tired Italian team in the second half, I think that is part of the plan. In the second half the going into extra time against England will starting taking its toll on the Italians at which point bringing a fresh Gomez would be great, especially because of the physicality in his game.
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby Jorge » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:04 pm

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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby MUTU » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:11 pm

walter wrote:
Kicker is predicting the same formation as in the group stage but with Klose instead of Gomez, which means that I am not amused.


No worries, Mutu. Loew is saving Gomez for a tired Italian team in the second half, I think that is part of the plan. In the second half the going into extra time against England will starting taking its toll on the Italians at which point bringing a fresh Gomez would be great, especially because of the physicality in his game.

Gomez doesn't need to rest. He only played around a quarter of an hour against Greece, and hasn't yet played a full match.

If you check the odds, Gomez is 5th favourite player for the Player of the Tournament award. Yet inexplicably he's ommitted and replaced by someone who's well past his expiry date and who in minutes amounting to more than 90 minutes failed to show anything dangerous bar a goal against a very weak Greek side when the keeper decided he should go out of his goal, leaving Klose to nod it in an empty net. It was arguably the easiest scoring chance that Germany had during all the Euro 2012.

This is no longer an experience game. Despite the Italians being older, the Germans are more experienced at the highest levels. How many Italian players have played in a Champions League final? Seven German players have played in 2 CL finals. Another two (Klose and Neuer) played in 1 CL final each.
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Re: [2012-06-28] Germany vs Italy

Postby MUTU » Thu Jun 28, 2012 5:11 pm

Jorge wrote:Image

Two balls on the pitch? :P
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