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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
2
9%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
5
23%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
9
41%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
6
27%
 
Total votes : 22

Re: General German national team thread

Postby aterford » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:15 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:According to @SPORT1, Hummels, Boateng and Müller didn't know about Löw decision until this morning when he met them in Munich. The players were surprised as they didn't expect this decision. Bayern bosses offered their support to the players, a support that was well received.


Yeah, tbh it seems to me like the handling of the situation is my biggest issue.
You wanna drop Hummels, Boa, and Müller from the squad, okay. I don't necessarily agree with timing and perhaps reasoning, but I can get that decision. But the manner in which it has done has looked really bad IMO.
It's basically been Jogi saying "Hey, you're retired now" and then the DFB goes ahead and announces this at the same time or before any of the players have had a chance to 'break the news' themselves.
At very least I'd like to have seen the players given the courtesy of being allowed to announce their own "retirement," I think for three guys who have been the core of the national team for years they're at least owed that.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:16 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:Bayern bosses offered their support to the players, a support that was well received.

Still playing the devil's advocate, I'm more worried about what this means.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:18 pm

The problem now are fullbacks.

There is not a single decent German fullback besides Kimmich and maybe Max?
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:25 pm

On the other hand I can understand what Löw is doing.

The next Euro will be in summer of 2020 and it is highly unlikely that Hummels, Boateng and Müller would be in a better form than they are now. So Löw knows he has to start developing the new young core asap.

In the short term they could still be better than other options, but not in summer 2020.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby zozon » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:28 pm

Summer 2020 is just one season away, duh.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:47 pm

We've seen how those 3 have declined in less than 1 year.

It's sad for me too as Boateng has always been one of my favourite players and I've always rated Hummels very high. Boateng was for me the best CB in the world while coached by Pep and Hummels positioning and tactical awarness have always been world class.

But sadly both are on a steep decline and I'm not surprised by Löw's decision. I'd agree the timing hasn't been the best though.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby kod2600 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:49 pm

In the same sense, Low himself should be sacked as well. I mean, managing the team almost since 2006 isn't as "fresh" as it should be, is it?

The coach himself had numerous tactical mistakes so it's only fair for him to leave with those 3.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby shpati_L1 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:03 pm

What I don't get is why only those 3 specifically? What about Kroos and Neuer? At least for Neuer there is already a world class goalkeeper waiting in line. Can't say the same about center backs.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby aterford » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:18 pm

shpati_L1 wrote:What I don't get is why only those 3 specifically? What about Kroos and Neuer? At least for Neuer there is already a world class goalkeeper waiting in line. Can't say the same about center backs.


That's part of my issue. There's just more depth elsewhere. Löw has been playing with 3 at the back more, and Kimmich is a midfielder for him and Kehrer a fullback. So provided they're gonna play that way going forward (which seems like the intention!), then you've got to pick three of Süle, Tah, Rüdiger, Ginter, Mustafi, or I guess Stark to for starting spots.
Meanwhile Neuer the captain keeps his spot even though this season ter Stegen's playing better, and to a greater degree (I.e. the difference in current level/form between ter Stegen and Neuer is greater than the difference between and of the other CBs and Boa/Hummels) and you've got Kroos who's been poor for Germany recently and is at risk of losing his starting spot in Madrid because he's been so poor, and still he avoids criticism...
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby IsiahRashad » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:41 pm

aterford wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:According to @SPORT1, Hummels, Boateng and Müller didn't know about Löw decision until this morning when he met them in Munich. The players were surprised as they didn't expect this decision. Bayern bosses offered their support to the players, a support that was well received.


Yeah, tbh it seems to me like the handling of the situation is my biggest issue.
You wanna drop Hummels, Boa, and Müller from the squad, okay. I don't necessarily agree with timing and perhaps reasoning, but I can get that decision. But the manner in which it has done has looked really bad IMO.
It's basically been Jogi saying "Hey, you're retired now" and then the DFB goes ahead and announces this at the same time or before any of the players have had a chance to 'break the news' themselves.
At very least I'd like to have seen the players given the courtesy of being allowed to announce their own "retirement," I think for three guys who have been the core of the national team for years they're at least owed that.



Well, yeah.. I agree on that.

My personal view of the situation is (sorry if someone already said it, i don't have much time to read everything today) ..

.. we can all agree that Löw has been under pressure to start a regeneration of the national team after going out of the group stage of the WC and finishing last in their Nations League. Looking at the squad of the Germany, somehow leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and my consciousness. Now, without Hummels, Boateng & Müller - look at the guys that should be the "leaders" of the team, and tell me when you find them.

A lot of people have been criticized by others, why they always prefer french or spanish players instead of the young germans. Let's look at the more important players of the national team now:

GK/Defense:
- Neuer - already passed his prime, and ter Stegen is the best GK in the World. If Löw wants to start "the new era", he should start with putting Neuer on the bench.
- Süle, Ginter & Tah - all average defenders in my eyes. Süle the best from this group, still far away from Hummels, Boateng and with Pavard & another CB *Hernandez* coming in the summer, his situation is not going to get better. Ginter nothing impressive, Tah clearly a 3rd or 4th backup.
- Rüdiger & Kehrer the only defenders that i'm excited about. I've never liked Rüdiger before, but now he should be the leader of the defense, and if i had to be honest - he's one of the better players for Chelsea. Kehrer is definetly going to be the guy that Löw should build around in defense.
- Hector, Shulz, Kimmich- Hector was good years ago, now playing the second tier, while Shulz is the "average joe" of the national team. It's allright with Kimmich, just he needs to play him on the RB.

Midfield:
- Draxler, Rudy - for me - waste of space.
- Kroos, Goretzka, Havertz - even Löw cannot **** up with playing Kroos and Havertz together.

Wingers/Attack:
- Reus, Sane - I'm happy with Reus, too bad that he's probably going to miss some major games with injury. Sane - great player.
- Brandt, Gnabry, Werner - i don't expect too much from Brandt, while Gnabry, Werner & Sane are probably going to start for the NT in the coming years.

So, overall i don't think that we're going to see a major success in the next years with this team. That's why the EURO 2020 should be the last tournament of Löw, because the "new era" had to start with another coach, not with the retirement of couple of players. In the same thoughts, who are the guys that can find place in the national team - Henrichs, Klostermann, Eggestein and probably Neuhaus. There is almost 0 talent coming from the youth teams, and i don't know how the leaders of the German football are seeing the future of the Bundesliga, National team, etc..
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:56 am

I said after the World Cup that Löw needed to drop most senior players from the National Team and go into the UEFA Nations League with a young team looking at a 4-8 year cycle. The main reason: most likely Germany was going to finish bottom in a group with a much better French Team and a good rejuvenated and energetic Netherlands Team, so it served no purpose to maintain the old players.

In the same lines I expressed that the doors should have remained open for all those players to win their place back, the USA after being eliminated from the World Cup took this approach, Germany itself took this approach after Euro 2004.

It is a simple concept: all younger players that would have been given the opportunity would have felt empowered and at risk knowing that the "owners" of those positions were out there getting ready to be back. Then, it was better to assess what senior players were needed back on a case by case basis, this process would have sorted out fairly when was the right time to cut Boateng, Hummels or Muller.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Wed Mar 06, 2019 7:52 am

I’m confused if this is simply dropping these guys or banishing them from the NT (like Khedira). If it’s the former than that’s fine but if it’s the latter then that IMO is wrong. Hummels is still decent enough to be in the CB fold as a third choice.

Also, totally agree with the feeling that Neuer and Kroos getting a free pass is ridiculous. Ter Stegen has been much better than Neuer for two seasons now and Kroos is having a terrible season with RM since the World Cup. Whereas Gudogan is bossing the Man City midfield. Why are Neuer and Kroos not being dropped in favor of better performing players? Why are those two immune?

—————

IMO This talk of “zero talent” is exaggerated. Germany still can put out a (i)top class starting eleven but the key is to play (ii)guys in their natural position and build a team chemistry and (iii)have a coach with smart tactics.

Now the third element is already lacking because Löw is still here. If elements one and two are combined then this could be the starting eleven:

That’s a very good statting eleven and with players in their natural positions. Over the qualifying period, if they remain fit and healthy, they will develop good chemistry.

I get the feeling that users on this website are too biased and stubborn in their views on certain players. Once the guys here form an internal opinion about a guy being shit, it won’t matter if said player plays outstanding football for the next six months, in their eyes he will always be shit because that’s their unyielding internalized opinion and there’s no changing it! Conversely if a user here think Player X is top class, it doesn’t matter if Player X plays like an amateur for the next twelve months, he’ll still remain top class in the person’s unyielding opinion and excuses like “Form is temporary, class is permanent”, “Player X just needs more time” and “it’s only a dry spell” will roll out.

Now I’ll concede that I too have my favorites and players I don’t like but I’ve routinely called out my favorites (Neuer, Goretzka, James, Hummels, Kroos, etc.) when they have performed badly instead of using deflection. Hell I went from pro-Thomas Muller to being highly against him after the World Cup! I’ve also praised Boateng when he puts in a decent shift.

Guess I’m asking guys here to be a bit too magnanimous.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Mar 06, 2019 8:03 am

The problem is that it's not so clear what Loew's intentions are. If there was a World Cup very soon and Loew needed to provide a list of 23 players, which central defenders would he choose providing everyone is fit (because this is obviously also a factor)? He had Ginter (can play on the side), Hummels, Suele, Boateng and Ruediger last World Cup so he will need 2 new names instead of Hummels and Boateng... Tah? Mustafi? Vogt?
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby longeleven » Wed Mar 06, 2019 9:09 am

MUTU wrote:The problem is that it's not so clear what Loew's intentions are. If there was a World Cup very soon and Loew needed to provide a list of 23 players, which central defenders would he choose providing everyone is fit (because this is obviously also a factor)? He had Ginter (can play on the side), Hummels, Suele, Boateng and Ruediger last World Cup so he will need 2 new names instead of Hummels and Boateng... Tah? Mustafi? Vogt?


I asked myself this question too. And the only reason makes sense at this moment is he wants to boot young player's morale in next call-up (18.03?)
He wants to tell them "This is your time, go make it" "no more veteran to block your way".
I can see it in Kimmich's eyes, he do wants more authority on and off the pitch.

With Hummels, Mueller or Boateng, young generation couldn't go further.

Kroos, in another way, still useful with his mastermind and fame with Real Madrid ( you don't want a top team without any star. don't you?)

Neuer, I have no idea, I still have faith in this man, he can get back his old form, otherwise, Stegen still there on the line.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Wed Mar 06, 2019 10:32 am

If Löw continues to call up Petersen and Hector and insistently keeps starting Neuer and Kroos then this decision of his would make zero fücking sense!

Excellent article on Löw’s arrogance. If the failures continue after all the scapegoats are sacrificed then the buck will sooner or later stop with Joachim Löw who is the man behind all this mess.

Hope Mats and Müller use this snub as a motivation to do well for the remainder of the season. As for Boateng, sadly this was long coming because he’s finished at the top level. He should go to MLS or China for a final big paycheck.
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