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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
1
7%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
3
21%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
6
43%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
4
29%
 
Total votes : 14

Re: General German national team thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:42 pm

BTW, I'm watching Germany Peru...

Who da fvck is this Nico Schultz guy and what is he doing playing for the German NT? He's bad.

Why hasn't Löw called Phillipp Max for a try???

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:55 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:BTW, I'm watching Germany Peru...

Who da fvck is this Nico Schultz guy and what is he doing playing for the German NT? He's bad.

Why hasn't Löw called Phillipp Max for a try???

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Sep 09, 2018 8:57 pm

L O L
Beautiful I was not aware that the match was today...

Vamos Peru
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:01 pm

I'm so tired of Werner being the most protected player on the team. He occasionally gets(and usually misses) some decent chances but he does absolutely nothing to create them or help buildup play.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Mon Sep 10, 2018 6:38 am

Re: CF hunt

Manchu, this is what I found. Also from Hannover, Hendrik Weydandt (23) had 2 goals in 15' in the Pokal, one goal in 8' in the BL. One of the goals in the Pokal was pretty nice. 1.95m, so he can bully a lot of Mexican / Korean defenders. (If that's what Germany was looking for, but hey, Dzyuba scored quite some goals for Russia).

Here's his GI: 120, around Werner's (122 iirc).

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Mon Sep 10, 2018 7:26 am

FCB12Forever wrote:Re: CF hunt

Manchu, this is what I found. Also from Hannover, Hendrik Weydandt (23) had 2 goals in 15' in the Pokal, one goal in 8' in the BL. One of the goals in the Pokal was pretty nice. 1.95m, so he can bully a lot of Mexican / Korean defenders. (If that's what Germany was looking for, but hey, Dzyuba scored quite some goals for Russia).

Here's his GI: 120, around Werner's (122 iirc).

Can't see tweet? Click here!

It's an interesting idea, but if we go by Goalimpact Werner really should never have been playing for the NT. For a player other a U21 talent, ~122 is really too low to justify being called up at all,* and Goalimpact really never rated Werner in the same category as young talents like Brandt, Sane, Kimmich, Sule, Max Meyer, etc.

Weydandt, despite having spent nearly his entire career in unprofessional leagues, is obviously good enough for the Bundesliga, has shown very impressive determination to get from the former to the latter, and might improve even more now that he has access to professional coaching, but, if we go by GI, he's a long way from a call up because there are probably at least a half dozen German CFs, even excluding Wagner and Gomez, with GI's over 150. I just don't know who they are(well, at least other than Marvin Ducksch) because I never really asked.
*For comparison Ozil had ~150 at 22, T. Muller had ~160, and even the infamously lately developing Wagner had ~130. Also, to put into prospective how out of place Werner is by GI, if Germany played all its best players(including ones like Badstuber who haven't been called up in a long time but are still good) in a starting 11, it would have an average of over 180 GI points.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Mon Sep 10, 2018 4:04 pm

Manchu wrote:It's an interesting idea, but if we go by Goalimpact Werner really should never have been playing for the NT. For a player other a U21 talent, ~122 is really too low to justify being called up at all,* and Goalimpact really never rated Werner in the same category as young talents like Brandt, Sane, Kimmich, Sule, Max Meyer, etc.


Probably true, but thing is this CF does not have to be very good. If you look at how clumsy big guys like Giroud, Poulsen and Dzyuba fared for their respective teams, they all carried out their jobs pretty well. Not even mentioning two days ago, U21 was playing Mexico, and managed to score 2, hit the post twice (4 shots on goal at least) after Aaron Seydel (1.99m) came on.


It seems in 2018's tactic system you don't need a good CF, you just need a tall and strong stick up front. Say, a 2m tall stick. If he could at least cause some distraction in the opponents' defense, we eating good tonight.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Tue Sep 11, 2018 10:50 pm

The pressing and defensive tracking back has been good me so far in the two post World Cup games. That’s the big positive. The Negative? The attacking play is still very predictable and one dimensional and Löw stil hasn’t got the balance in the team right.

I think Löw is still sticking with possession based football and trusting his old winners. Peru had some really good chances to punish Germany on the counter when once again the Central defenders were caught high up the pitch.

Also of the 2014 batch I’d only keep Neuer, Kroos and Hummels around. Reus too if he can hit good form and remain fit.

The Germans might have to drop Müller for good and look ahead because at the moment Thomas is sticking out like a sore thumb while attacking! Löw is obsessed with playing Thomas on the right where he’s pretty damn useless. He can’t take on players and inadvertently tends to stop attacks by passing back or trying to pass it to somebody else rather than carry the ball forward.

Germany have better attacking wingers than Muller: Reus, Sane, Brandt, Gnabry, Philipp and even Schurrle.

I think a fast paced attacking three of Brandt-Werner-Sane is the way forward and sadly Muller does not have a place is that system because Germany have decent midfielders in Kroos, Gundogan, Goretzka, Can, Kimmich, etc.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:31 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
Manchu wrote:It's an interesting idea, but if we go by Goalimpact Werner really should never have been playing for the NT. For a player other a U21 talent, ~122 is really too low to justify being called up at all,* and Goalimpact really never rated Werner in the same category as young talents like Brandt, Sane, Kimmich, Sule, Max Meyer, etc.


Probably true, but thing is this CF does not have to be very good. If you look at how clumsy big guys like Giroud, Poulsen and Dzyuba fared for their respective teams, they all carried out their jobs pretty well. Not even mentioning two days ago, U21 was playing Mexico, and managed to score 2, hit the post twice (4 shots on goal at least) after Aaron Seydel (1.99m) came on.


It seems in 2018's tactic system you don't need a good CF, you just need a tall and strong stick up front. Say, a 2m tall stick. If he could at least cause some distraction in the opponents' defense, we eating good tonight.

Well, I think you're making a little mistake when you pronounce these tall and strong CFs as "not very good." It's true that, since tall and strong CFs don't play in an aesthetically pleasing fashion, the general public, fans, and most coaches don't think that they are good players.

However, if we're judging players by Goalimpact, many "destroyer" type strikers have good to excellent Goalimpacts, most notably for our purposes Sandro Wagner who has Goalimpact around that of James Rodriguez. This makes sense because Goalimpact measures contribution to winning, and, as you correctly pointed out, strikers who have a massive presence in the box tend to help goal scoring a lot.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Wed Sep 12, 2018 2:33 pm

America USA wrote:The pressing and defensive tracking back has been good me so far in the two post World Cup games. That’s the big positive. The Negative? The attacking play is still very predictable and one dimensional and Löw stil hasn’t got the balance in the team right.

I think Löw is still sticking with possession based football and trusting his old winners. Peru had some really good chances to punish Germany on the counter when once again the Central defenders were caught high up the pitch.

Also of the 2014 batch I’d only keep Neuer, Kroos and Hummels around. Reus too if he can hit good form and remain fit.

The Germans might have to drop Müller for good and look ahead because at the moment Thomas is sticking out like a sore thumb while attacking! Löw is obsessed with playing Thomas on the right where he’s pretty damn useless. He can’t take on players and inadvertently tends to stop attacks by passing back or trying to pass it to somebody else rather than carry the ball forward.

Germany have better attacking wingers than Muller: Reus, Sane, Brandt, Gnabry, Philipp and even Schurrle.

I think a fast paced attacking three of Brandt-Werner-Sane is the way forward and sadly Muller does not have a place is that system because Germany have decent midfielders in Kroos, Gundogan, Goretzka, Can, Kimmich, etc.

I have been saying the same, it is time to put aside most of the old guard, keep a minimum essential core of players and fill the squad with players that can serve the NT for the next 10 years, then on a case by case basis start bring back some of the oldtimers.

I disagree that Muller has no place in a new revamped Germany, he should be dropped but with the door open for a return. He can be a 2nd striker/ No.10 easily if Kimmich plays RB. Kroos-Goretzka as double pivots alternating roles when going forward and Muller as a free floater between the wingers and on the back of a center forward; but this works only in a more direct style with possession football reserved only for when the score is in Germany's favor.

The style of play should be quick passes forward-high press immediately when the ball is lost then retreating if the ball is not taken back to reset again from the back. With a favorable score then more ball rotation to force the opponent out of their half and open spaces.

The way Germany plays now is the less effective system that any coach can use. Most teams, including powerhouses retreat and hit with counterattacks and Germany looks boring, predictable and the system brings the worst out of each player.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:14 pm

Manchu wrote:Well, I think you're making a little mistake when you pronounce these tall and strong CFs as "not very good." It's true that, since tall and strong CFs don't play in an aesthetically pleasing fashion, the general public, fans, and most coaches don't think that they are good players.


I think we had a miscommunication about the definition of "very good". When I referred to "very good" CF's, I was referring to Lewa, Kane and Icardi level players. I assume Low's plan was "if we don't have a Kane, I'd rather bring nobody rather than those 'bums'.".

However, you don't need a Lewa, Kane or Icardi to help you score. At the modern CF role a workhorse that inflict pain on the opposition defense will work. He has to be a diligent person that carries out tactical orders, but does not have to be able to score 5 goals in 9 minutes. The level of Poulsen, Dzyuba, Fullkrug, or even Seydel and Teuchert might all suffice.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Wed Sep 12, 2018 5:51 pm

FCB12Forever wrote:
Manchu wrote:Well, I think you're making a little mistake when you pronounce these tall and strong CFs as "not very good." It's true that, since tall and strong CFs don't play in an aesthetically pleasing fashion, the general public, fans, and most coaches don't think that they are good players.


I think we had a miscommunication about the definition of "very good". When I referred to "very good" CF's, I was referring to Lewa, Kane and Icardi level players. I assume Low's plan was "if we don't have a Kane, I'd rather bring nobody rather than those 'bums'.".

However, you don't need a Lewa, Kane or Icardi to help you score. At the modern CF role a workhorse that inflict pain on the opposition defense will work. He has to be a diligent person that carries out tactical orders, but does not have to be able to score 5 goals in 9 minutes. The level of Poulsen, Dzyuba, Fullkrug, or even Seydel and Teuchert might all suffice.

I agree 100%. Playing without a CF has been repeatedly proven over the last few years to be as stupid as playing without CBs.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:54 pm

Can't see tweet? Click here!

Honigstein doesn't seem to realize the problem. He still thinks the CF line of Muller, Reus and Werner can serve well. It's just "a tactical problem".

Well If the DFB and Low think this way, the only thing I can think of is they need to be spanked harder so they can finally realize where the problem really lies. Probably losing to Moldova or a similar team will finally do the good deed.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:45 pm

Meyer can’t get games at Crystal Palace. What an idiot he is to leave Schalke (a CL club) to go and rot on a relegation level PL club’s bench!

Can is still not a regular starter for Juventus.

Favre hates Weigl (and Götze but that’s for another post) and doesn’t prefer him at all!

Only Rudy is the one who will potentially be getting regular games at Schalke.

Germany’s defensive midfield future is looking pretty dark at the moment. Taking Kimmich out from the RB might be a temporary fix but Kimmich is more productive at RB and without him as a Full back Germany will have one less attacking outlet!

Löw the idiot said that he wanted more “specialists” in specific positions after the World Cup. So how is playing a guy who plays RB every game for his club as the DM adhering to the “specialist” theory that he was espousing?

Playing Kimmich as DM might solve one problem but creates another (zero attacking productivity from either fullbacks)
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:11 pm

America USA wrote:Meyer can’t get games at Crystal Palace. What an idiot he is to leave Schalke (a CL club) to go and rot on a relegation level PL club’s bench!

Can is still not a regular starter for Juventus.

Favre hates Weigl (and Götze but that’s for another post) and doesn’t prefer him at all!

Only Rudy is the one who will potentially be getting regular games at Schalke.

Germany’s defensive midfield future is looking pretty dark at the moment. Taking Kimmich out from the RB might be a temporary fix but Kimmich is more productive at RB and without him as a Full back Germany will have one less attacking outlet!

Löw the idiot said that he wanted more “specialists” in specific positions after the World Cup. So how is playing a guy who plays RB every game for his club as the DM adhering to the “specialist” theory that he was espousing?

Playing Kimmich as DM might solve one problem but creates another (zero attacking productivity from either fullbacks)



It will get worse before it gets better.
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