You are not logged in or registered. Please login or register to use the full functionality of BayernForum.com

General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
3
9%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
6
18%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
13
39%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
11
33%
 
Total votes : 33

Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:26 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I think Loew won't be calling up Sandro Wagner anymore after what happened in June.

Well, he retired from the NT. It would be quite weird if Loew called him again.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 50355
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 9139 times
Been thanked: 14964 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:52 pm

What about Kevin Volland?

As for the striker crises...

I can't remember the last time Germany had a German leading the attack...

Thank God Klose's parents decided to cross the border...

Then there was Gomez ok ... no comment..

Klinsmann
Voller
Riedle
Kuntz
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 53213
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 34457 times
Been thanked: 7527 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby pyrasur » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:08 pm

I thought you were all about nationality being bloodline regardless of birth and spoken language? Shouldn’t matter that Klose speaks Polish at home.

I’m sensing inconsistency
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
User avatar
pyrasur
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4528
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:05 am
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 3119 times
Been thanked: 2055 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Aug 29, 2018 8:30 pm

pyrasur wrote:I thought you were all about nationality being bloodline regardless of birth and spoken language? Shouldn’t matter that Klose speaks Polish at home.

I’m sensing inconsistency

Everyone knows it's hip to try and claim a player isn't German unless up to ten generations before were all born in Germany and never lived outside of Germany except for holidays.
User avatar
MUTU
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
Site Admin & EURO 2016, 2017/18 and World Cup 2018 Prediction Game Winner
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 50355
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:00 pm
Location: L-Imqabba, Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 9139 times
Been thanked: 14964 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:50 am

YlonenXabi wrote:Petersen again?

I think Loew won't be calling up Sandro Wagner anymore after what happened in June. It's sad cause Germany needs a proper #9 at least on the bench and Petersen is way too mediocre.


Didn't Wagner retire in response? Or am I confusing things...
User avatar
FCBayernMunchen
Moderator
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 42244
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:54 pm
Location: Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 14699 times
Been thanked: 11702 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member
BayernForum.com donator: Yes

Re: General German national team thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:16 pm

:oops:
- Hansi Legend Flick -
User avatar
YlonenXabi
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 13388
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 1:53 am
Location: Guernsey
National Flag:
Spain
Has thanked: 4577 times
Been thanked: 4430 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Wed Sep 05, 2018 1:51 pm

These are great news! It should have happened a few years ago, then nobody would have cared about his social media pictures.
Mesut Ozil return to Germany team not expected by coach Joachim Low [source]
User avatar
Jorge
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2579
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Nashville, USA
National Flag:
Åland Islands
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1499 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Fri Sep 07, 2018 4:25 am

Karl Marx once said that history repeats itself "the first time as a tragedy, the second time as a farce." At this point, with Joachim Low's handling of the National Team's offense, we're well beyond the farce and into whatever lies next. The National Team seems stuck in a time warp, doomed to eternally repeat what failed in the past and never learning from the experience. The only changes which are permitted to take place are cosmetic ones(oh, look, Kimmich in the midfield. How radical!) which serve to keep the masses distracted from the fact that the National Team, unlike every good club team in the world, still plays without a striker.

It's been like this for half a decade at this point, and, no, the excuse that "it's only because Germany hasn't produced any WC strikers" doesn't fly because even when Low had good options(Mario Gomez, Sandro Wagner), he still didn't use them. I feel like it will only end when Low gets sacked.
User avatar
Manchu
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:34 am
Has thanked: 348 times
Been thanked: 507 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby pyrasur » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:15 am

Come on you've suddenly gone from loving the way Loew ran the German national team to considering him a joke? Before the world cup you loved the way Germany ran their offense.

Mario Gomez and Sandro Wagner are not the problem for Germany right now. They would be nice options to have on the bench but they are not the difference makers who could make the squad a top team.
而剑法的最高境界,则是手中无剑,心中也无剑,是以大胸怀,包容一切。那便是不杀,便是和平。-英雄
User avatar
pyrasur
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 4528
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 3:05 am
National Flag:
United States of America
Has thanked: 3119 times
Been thanked: 2055 times
Gender: Male
BayernForum.com fan club: Active member

Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:00 am

I am really disappointed by Werner...

Up until a few months before the World Cup he was doing great and many including me were satisfied and assured that there was going to be a lethal striker ...

But what happened next?

A black hole....
...
...
...
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 53213
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 34457 times
Been thanked: 7527 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:10 am

pyrasur wrote:Come on you've suddenly gone from loving the way Loew ran the German national team to considering him a joke? Before the world cup you loved the way Germany ran their offense.

Mario Gomez and Sandro Wagner are not the problem for Germany right now. They would be nice options to have on the bench but they are not the difference makers who could make the squad a top team.

Look, I'm not going to get into this in detail because I wrote several thousand words about this for our blog, but there's a lot of evidence which suggests proper center forwards are absolutely crucial to breaking down low blocks, both due to their own action and the fear their presence imposes on the defense. Certainly Bayern has had a very bad record whenever we try to go up against against a parked bus without starting a proper striker. The same principles certainly apply to the NT and I doubt it will ever be able to consistently create chances against a good defense with a strikerless formation.

Also, Mario Gomez and (particularly) Sandro Wagner are far better than you give them credit for, and they both have a history of people underrating them because they play with brutal efficiency rather than beauty. It's very unlikely that Germany would have gone out at the group stages if one of them had started all three games.

Finally, I liked Low because his squad management was so good compared to other NT coaches. I knew he made mistakes, but I thought he could learn from them(for instance, I thought he had learned his lessons about screwing around with false 9s at the 2016 Euros). Now I am much less certain of it.
User avatar
Manchu
I'm a chatterbox!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 778
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:34 am
Has thanked: 348 times
Been thanked: 507 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 7:47 am

Manchu wrote:
pyrasur wrote:Come on you've suddenly gone from loving the way Loew ran the German national team to considering him a joke? Before the world cup you loved the way Germany ran their offense.

Mario Gomez and Sandro Wagner are not the problem for Germany right now. They would be nice options to have on the bench but they are not the difference makers who could make the squad a top team.

Look, I'm not going to get into this in detail because I wrote several thousand words about this for our blog, but there's a lot of evidence which suggests proper center forwards are absolutely crucial to breaking down low blocks, both due to their own action and the fear their presence imposes on the defense. Certainly Bayern has had a very bad record whenever we try to go up against against a parked bus without starting a proper striker. The same principles certainly apply to the NT and I doubt it will ever be able to consistently create chances against a good defense with a strikerless formation.

Also, Mario Gomez and (particularly) Sandro Wagner are far better than you give them credit for, and they both have a history of people underrating them because they play with brutal efficiency rather than beauty. It's very unlikely that Germany would have gone out at the group stages if one of them had started all three games.

Finally, I liked Low because his squad management was so good compared to other NT coaches. I knew he made mistakes, but I thought he could learn from them(for instance, I thought he had learned his lessons about screwing around with false 9s at the 2016 Euros). Now I am much less certain of it.
Loew is an arrogant and an idiotic man
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 53213
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 34457 times
Been thanked: 7527 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:24 pm

First of all, I am sorry for the long post but I would like to vent some frustrations.

I am a firm believer that Germany needed to shake the tree after the World Cup debacle. I still think that Löw needs to step aside and bring in someone with fresher ideas and I still believe that the National Team needs to be stripped to a basic core with many senior players momentarily stepping aside then start bringing them back on a case by case as the team takes shape.

There is a degree of dysfunction that borderlines crisis and a new cycle needs to start, similar to 2004-2006. Where are the new names thinking long term? Even those young enough to be around for the next 10 years are being contaminated by the current process.

The only positive of the "new era" is that the defensive problems seem to be solved, a defensive block looked impenetrable for the most part with better timing on the flanks going up even with fullbacks of limited skills and a defensive midfielder next to Kroos, even during the insipid first half Germany looked solid on defensive mode, without the spaces and holes shown at the world cup when losing possession.

The big negative: the team has no teeth. Germany in offensive mode looks regional league football.

1) Löw decides to play with a #9 (Reus) who is not a #9 and without a #10, because Goretzka is not a #10. The whole tactical approach made all 3 of Leon, Thomas and Marco highly isolated and ineffective in a possession oriented system, simply because the back of the team moving up as a unit allows the opponent to close all spaces for any of them to get unmarked. Of the offensive players, the most mobile was Werner but it was him against the world on the left wing and Werner will never be a Messi.
2) I can’t believe that some still do not recognize that Germany’s problem starts with the emphasis in possession football. I do not believe that Germany needs to implement a park and counter mode for 90 minutes, but possession should be a component, not the style. In the good days of Löw’s Germany the team had flare with counterattacking bursts based on quick one touch passing forward, mixed with spells of ball circulation; that made Germany unpredictable and effective. I invite anyone to replay the games vs England and Argentina in WC 2010, or any game between 2010 and 2012 for that matter. Possession alone makes the team unwatchable.
3) Ironically, the underperformers of the team will be highly effective in a more direct style. Both Reus and Werner play like that in their clubs. Muller’s best times in the German shirt coincide with this type of tactics. Add Sane’s speed or Brandt’s 1v1 breakthroughs. Leon not being a good dribbler but a powerful force showing up from the midfield will become an extra weapon.
4) Some claim that fielding Gomez or Wagner instead of Werner or Reus will fix the problems: it won’t. They will be isolated and ineffective as well, the only benefit will be the aerial game and I do not want to see cross after cross from the wings trying to find a lucky header.
5) My big question remains the same: Is Guardiola’s ghost still hovering over Germany? Where did Löw get the idea that passing the ball around for 90 minutes will give you a result? The bad news is that even Guardiola himself renounced to this tactics. And I am not talking about possession only, although I am also talking about possession. I am talking about creating an abstract concept and force the players to play that system. Good coaches identify the strengths of the players that conform their national team and build a system that suits them. A system that do not suppress those strengths but unleashes the potential. A tactical approach centered on possession does not suit the type of players that Germany has, a more direct type of football does.
Last edited by Jorge on Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Jorge
I'm a post king!
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 2579
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 7:32 pm
Location: Nashville, USA
National Flag:
Åland Islands
Has thanked: 169 times
Been thanked: 1499 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Sep 07, 2018 2:54 pm

Jorge wrote:First of all, I am sorry for the long post but I would like to vent some frustrations.

I am a firm believer that Germany needed to shake the tree after the World Cup debacle. I still think that Löw needs to step aside and bring in someone with fresher ideas and I still believe that the National Team needs to be stripped to a basic core with many senior players momentarily stepping aside then start bringing them back on a case by case as the team takes shape.

There is a degree of dysfunction that borderlines crisis and a new cycle needs to start, similar to 2004-2006. Where are the new names thinking long term? Even those young enough to be around for the next 10 years are being contaminated by the current process.

The only positive of the "new era" is that the defensive problems seem to be solved, a defensive block looked impenetrable for the most part with better timing on the flanks going up even with fullbacks of limited skills and a defensive midfielder next to Kroos, even during the insipid first half Germany looked solid on defensive mode, without the spaces and holes shown at the world cup when losing possession.

The big negative: the team has no teeth. Germany in offensive mode looks regional league football.

1) Löw decides to play with a #9 (Reus) who is not a #9 and without a #10, because Goretzka is not a #10. The whole tactical approach made all 3 of Leon, Thomas and Marco highly isolated and ineffective in a possession oriented system, simply because the back of the team moving up as a unit allows the opponent to close all spaces for any of them to get unmarked. Of the offensive players, the most mobile was Werner but it was him against the world on the left wing and Werner will never be a Messi.
2) I can’t believe that some still do not recognize that Germany’s problem starts with the emphasis in possession football. I do not believe that Germany needs to implement a park and counter mode for 90 minutes, but possession should be a component, not the style. In the good days of Löw’s Germany the team had flare with counterattacking bursts based on quick one touch passing forward, mixed with spells of ball circulation; that made Germany unpredictable and effective. I invite anyone to replay the games vs England and Argentina in WC 2010, or any game between 2010 and 2012 for that matter. Possession alone makes the team unwatchable.
3) Ironically, the underperformers of the team will be highly effective in a more direct style. Both Reus and Werner play like that in their clubs. Muller’s best times in the German shirt coincide with this type of tactics. Add Sane’s speed or Brandt’s 1v1 breakthroughs. Leon not being a good dribbler but a powerful force showing up from the midfield will become an extra weapon.
4) Some claim that fielding Gomez or Wagner instead of Werner or Reus will fix the problems: it won’t. They will be isolated and ineffective as well, the only benefit will be the aerial game and I do not want to see cross after cross from the wings trying to find a lucky header.
5) My big question remains the same: Is Guardiola’s ghost still hovering above Germany? Where did Löw get the idea that passing the ball around for 90 minutes will give you a result? The bad news is that even Guardiola himself renounced to this tactics. And I am not talking about possession only, although I am also talking about possession. I am talking about creating an abstract concept and force the players to play that system. Good coaches identify the strengths of the players that conform their national team and build a system that suits them. A system that do not suppress those strengths but unleashes the potential. A tactical approach centered on possession does not suit the type of players that Germany has, a more direct type of football does.
Thanks for the post.

Amen
U l-Kotra qamet f’daqqa – u għajtet: “Jien Maltija!
Miskin min ikasbarni, - miskin min jidħak bija!”
U l-Kotra għanniet f’daqqa – u semmgħet ma’ l-irjieħ
L-Innu ta’ Malta tagħna, – u l-leħen kien rebbieħ,
User avatar
ramsej84
I tattooed BayernForum.com on my ass
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 53213
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:47 pm
Location: Birkirkara - Malta
National Flag:
Malta
Has thanked: 34457 times
Been thanked: 7527 times
Gender: Male

Re: General German national team thread

Postby rthebest » Fri Sep 07, 2018 3:44 pm

Jorge wrote: Is Guardiola’s ghost still hovering over Germany? Where did Löw get the idea that passing the ball around for 90 minutes will give you a result? The bad news is that even Guardiola himself renounced to this tactics. And I am not talking about possession only, although I am also talking about possession. I


I think slow possession game is more Van Gaal idea of football then Pep's. This is something that still haunts Bayern from time to time.
rthebest
I post all the time
 
Years of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membershipYears of membership
 
Posts: 1869
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:45 am
Location: Canada
National Flag:
Canada
Has thanked: 477 times
Been thanked: 523 times
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to German National Team

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: SemrushBot [Bot] and 3 guests