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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
2
8%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
6
23%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
11
42%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
7
27%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:12 am

America USA wrote:Look Müller might have played at RW for Germany’s for a long time but times change and those who fail to adapt will perish. Teams have worked him out now, since Klose’s retirement he’s not interchanging with the other forwards as often to make him effective. He doesn’t have the pace, technique or strength to take defenders on 1v1. He has to play behind the striker or with one to play his role of Raumdeuter.


I think you've hit the problem on its head, but you haven't quite completely defined it completely. The problem with Muller and the entire German offense is bound up in the center-forward question.

The team that roared to life in 2010 relied on Klose as a versatile and complete center forward who let the other players in the attack function. That generally worked well with either him or Gomez fulfilling the role until 2012.

Unfortunately, Klose was getting old and Mario Gomez had his (injury) problems, so Low decided the team had to switch to playing with Gotze as a false 9. That worked OK against weaker opponents but crashed and burned at the World Cup and the team generally failed to consistently create good chances until Low switched to using Klose again, at which point the team proceeded to crush its opponents.

After the World Cup, Klose retired and Gomez full of the face of the Earth, so Low switched back to a false 9 approach. That completely failed at the Euros, with Germany creating only two big chances from open play in the first two games against Poland and Ukraine, so he abandoned it for the third game against Northern Ireland and the offense(and Muller) massively improved(5 big chances in one games). It didn't work out in the end because Gomez got injured against Italy and there were no more center forwards.

Finally, after the Euros Low basically switched back to a false 9 again with Werner playing the role(he's not officially that, but has the same deficiencies). Predictably, that worked OK against small teams but completely failed against a big opponent and the entire offense, including Muller, was toothless and created 0 big chances, especially since the left flank was nonexistent.

The remedy is clear: drop Werner, start Gomez. We can't counter attack against a team that parks the bus on us.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Mon Jun 18, 2018 1:38 am

Every game is a Cup final from now on for Die Mannschaft. The Germans need 6 wins in 6 games to retain the World Cup. No two ways about it. The mental strength of the coach and the players will now be put to a thorough test.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby #12 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:22 am

Manchu wrote:
America USA wrote:Look Müller might have played at RW for Germany’s for a long time but times change and those who fail to adapt will perish. Teams have worked him out now, since Klose’s retirement he’s not interchanging with the other forwards as often to make him effective. He doesn’t have the pace, technique or strength to take defenders on 1v1. He has to play behind the striker or with one to play his role of Raumdeuter.


I think you've hit the problem on its head, but you haven't quite completely defined it completely. The problem with Muller and the entire German offense is bound up in the center-forward question.

The team that roared to life in 2010 relied on Klose as a versatile and complete center forward who let the other players in the attack function. That generally worked well with either him or Gomez fulfilling the role until 2012.

Unfortunately, Klose was getting old and Mario Gomez had his (injury) problems, so Low decided the team had to switch to playing with Gotze as a false 9. That worked OK against weaker opponents but crashed and burned at the World Cup and the team generally failed to consistently create good chances until Low switched to using Klose again, at which point the team proceeded to crush its opponents.

After the World Cup, Klose retired and Gomez full of the face of the Earth, so Low switched back to a false 9 approach. That completely failed at the Euros, with Germany creating only two big chances from open play in the first two games against Poland and Ukraine, so he abandoned it for the third game against Northern Ireland and the offense(and Muller) massively improved(5 big chances in one games). It didn't work out in the end because Gomez got injured against Italy and there were no more center forwards.

Finally, after the Euros Low basically switched back to a false 9 again with Werner playing the role(he's not officially that, but has the same deficiencies). Predictably, that worked OK against small teams but completely failed against a big opponent and the entire offense, including Muller, was toothless and created 0 big chances, especially since the left flank was nonexistent.

The remedy is clear: drop Werner, start Gomez. We can't counter attack against a team that parks the bus on us.


So now we’ve established Mexico is a "big team"? Neat!
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:41 am

#12 wrote:
America USA wrote:Mexico still had 2-3 very good counter attacks in the second half to kill the game. Also, we could’ve played till midnight but the Germans never really looked like scoring in this game.

What’s the reaction like in the German media? Is Löw being (rightfully) criticized ?


It’s a little too easy to put this all on Löw... We're talking Mexico here, I mean we oughta beat them with our B team playing with 10 men and NO tactics... It’s like Bundesliga-2nd Bundesliga - AT LEAST! There was NO ambition, no focus, and no greed anywhere in that bloodless pile of egomaniacs... Complacency... Just like in the Bayern team...
If the players think as you do , I am happy more than happy that Germany... what is this arrogance? Mexico is a respected tm around the world, a team which always shows great football and does well in the world cup... Four yrs ago it had to be a cruel penalty to eliminate them.

Do you remember France 98? Germany struggled a 1-0 vs Mex

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:48 am

Loew... wake up and smell the coffee
https://twitter.com/iMiaSanMia/status/1 ... 42274?s=19

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Jun 18, 2018 6:51 am

America USA wrote:Mexico still had 2-3 very good counter attacks in the second half to kill the game. Also, we could’ve played till midnight but the Germans never really looked like scoring in this game.

What’s the reaction like in the German media? Is Löw being (rightfully) criticized ?


I'm curious too. The local media are the only ones who can put enough pressure to force changes. They have to criticise every player who deserves it without holding anything back.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:01 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
America USA wrote:Mexico still had 2-3 very good counter attacks in the second half to kill the game. Also, we could’ve played till midnight but the Germans never really looked like scoring in this game.

What’s the reaction like in the German media? Is Löw being (rightfully) criticized ?


I'm curious too. The local media are the only ones who can put enough pressure to force changes. They have to criticise every player who deserves it without holding anything back.
Sweden will be a more difficult opponent than they are ... taking into consideration the pressure under which Germany will be playing...

Germany might still qualify even if they draw vs Swe... ans win vs SKR

But for this to happen Sweden have to lose or draw vs SKR

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:10 am

Yeah... Let's wait to see what happens today. If they draw Germany aren't in too bad a position (even though it puts us last).

Realistically I can see the group ending with three teams on 6 points
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 7:56 am

Yest result made a lot of ppl happy here in Malta since the majority support England and Italy. And also the Germans are hated big time (football wise)
I am playing it cool... but from now on I (hoping that the whole contingent the chef included learned the lesson) want the tm to start to kick asses

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:16 am

ramsej84 wrote:And also the Germans are hated big time (football wise)

Not just football, in general as well.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:19 am

Germany can't take on defenders (Leroy Sane was left at home)
Germany can't protect the defenders from attacks (Bender, Weigl, Can and Kramer were left at home)

So Germany can't dribble and there's nobody in midfield who can destroy.

I predict a struggle against Sweden.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:38 am

Yes I saw Kramer on zdf... why was he left out?


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Re: General German national team thread

Postby tflags » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:29 am

MUTU wrote:So Germany can't dribble and there's nobody in midfield who can destroy.


But.. but... but... Wasn't Kroos the reason why they won three Champion Leagues straight? :lol:

Man you make me laugh.

This, from Honigstein on ESPN:

"The inference of what he said[Hummels], however, was explosive in a number of ways. Either Sami Khedira and Toni Kroos, who were both nominally central midfielders but provided almost no protection for the defence, were simply not up the task or not committed enough to helping out, something the Bayern defender seemed to imply."
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:51 am

...
https://twitter.com/eMiaSanMia/status/1 ... 29376?s=19

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Bayernbazi » Mon Jun 18, 2018 10:31 am

MUTU wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:And also the Germans are hated big time (football wise)

Not just football, in general as well.


That's the BIG reason I stay away from public places showing matches on big screens - I can't stand the 'neutral' haters.

Germany must invent a rallying cry like the Iceland thunderclap - how about this ? Imagine the players doing it after the anthem ? They may even get the opposition staying at safe distance giving them the space needed :lol: :lol:
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