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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
1
6%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
4
24%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
8
47%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
4
24%
 
Total votes : 17

Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:53 am

Pretty sure the 2014 slogan included "Vier".

Edit: actually no, but I remember seeing some kind of hashtag on all social media posts with vier, either in the WC or EURO 2016.

Anyway, I don't see anything wrong with the slogan.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:59 am

MUTU wrote:Saying you're the best is reminiscent of the Deutschland über alles*, and is another way of saying that others are inferior. That's not aspiring, that's downright egotistical and arrogant. Whichever way you see it, you'll agree it's anything but humble.

Well, Germany are heading into the world cup as defending champions and as the number 1 ranked team in FIFA rankings. By both official measures, they ARE the best.

This slogan also includes a sort of warning to the players: don't get complacent. I think it's very clever
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB general » Tue Jun 12, 2018 3:36 pm



After 3 missed tournaments in row, now it's time to get ready for action. :)
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby #12 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:30 pm

MUTU wrote:
#12 wrote:
MUTU wrote:I want to talk about that arrogant motto that the German national team used. Days later, I still cannot comprehend why anyone would be so arrogant.

Best NeVer Rest with the Roman V for 5? What, they're claiming that they're the best and they're going to win the 5th World Cup? Seriously? As a Germany supporter it embarrasses me to use it!

Usually things don't work out well for Germans when they use a number in the title, like The Third Reich :twisted:


See, cultural thing... Cause I don’t think it’s arrogant to be aspiring...

And also, there are several ways to read and understand that slogan...

Also, no one will care once Manu raises the cup into the Moscow night...

Saying you're the best is reminiscent of the Deutschland über alles*, and is another way of saying that others are inferior. That's not aspiring, that's downright egotistical and arrogant. Whichever way you see it, you'll agree it's anything but humble.

* EDIT: I read that the Deutschland über alles is mostly misunderstood and is supposed to mean to put your country above everything. Supposedly, and perhaps conveniently ;)


1.) you can be THE best or one of the best... It could also mean it is best to never rest... and so on...

2.) of course it is... Above all... And it was coined before there was an actual state of Germany... Has to be just that, not just convenience...
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby RedQueen » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:40 pm

The text of the German national anthem is a bit older than you think, @MUTU.
In 1841, the German linguist and poet Hoffmann von Fallersleben wrote the lyrics of "Das Lied der Deutschen" as a new text for that music, counterposing the national unification of Germany to the eulogy of a monarch, lyrics that were considered revolutionary at the time.

So yes, your comment is way off the mark.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jun 12, 2018 11:21 pm


https://twitter.com/iMiaSanMia/status/1 ... 78496?s=19

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Last edited by ramsej84 on Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby 1911 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:36 am

Relax guys. The slogan came from someone in marketing, probably from Adidas. It’s not coming from the players or coaches themselves.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:24 am

#12 wrote:1.) you can be THE best or one of the best... It could also mean it is best to never rest... and so on...

What? I can't make any sense from your sentence.
It doesn't matter, it's cringeworthy if you claim you're the best. If it's cringeworthy when Ronaldo says he's the best player in the world, or Wagner saying he's the best German striker, it's cringeworthy when Germany says they're the best national team in the world, especially when they're not even the top bookmaker favourites to win the World Cup. And it doesn't even matter if they are. Even if bookmakers were giving them a 99% chance of winning the World Cup, they should just be humble, in my opinion; that's the way to gain respect not by praising yourself.

#12 wrote:2.) of course it is... Above all... And it was coined before there was an actual state of Germany... Has to be just that, not just convenience...

Thing is, the lyrics are very ambiguous.

Practically every non-German who doesn't know will assume "Germany above all" means "Germany IS above all" rather than "Put Germany above all".

In any case, that V in the middle is similar to Real Madrid hunting 'La Decima' when they had won 9 CLs. We used to find it cringeworthy even when the fans were talking about it. Imagine if it was an official Real Madrid slogan or something (actually, it might have been, but I don't recall it being)

FCBayernMunchen wrote:Well, Germany are heading into the world cup as defending champions and as the number 1 ranked team in FIFA rankings. By both official measures, they ARE the best.

If winning 6 matches four years ago allows you to claim you're the best now, then Bayern should claim they're the best now on virtue of having won several CL matches five years ago.

FIFA rankings are a joke. They took a scientific, world-approved, standard algorithm (Elo) and simplified it terribly just so that the man in the street could understand how it's being worked out. Simply ridiculous.
The Elo ranking puts Brazil in first place, which makes more sense given they're bookmaker favourites to win the World Cup. [source]


FCBayernMunchen wrote:This slogan also includes a sort of warning to the players: don't get complacent. I think it's very clever

If any of the players require a slogan in order to avoid complacency in the biggest tournament relevant to their career, then they'd better be as far away from Russia as possible!

RedQueen wrote:So yes, your comment is way off the mark.

Hey sorry, I did make the edit though, didn't I? It's not my fault that it's so ambiguous. Actually, scratch that, it's almost impossible to not fall into the assumption. Does "FC Bayern Forever Number One" mean that FC Bayern fans should forever regard their club as the number one?

1911 wrote:Relax guys. The slogan came from someone in marketing, probably from Adidas. It’s not coming from the players or coaches themselves.

You think it didn't need approval from the DFB? Do you, for a second, think that if Loew didn't like it they wouldn't have changed it?

I'll just leave it at this:
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCBayernMunchen » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:12 am

MUTU wrote:Thing is, the lyrics are very ambiguous.

Practically every non-German who doesn't know will assume "Germany above all" means "Germany IS above all" rather than "Put Germany above all".

I disagree, or rather, I don't disagree but I don't see anything wrong with it. So many national anthems glorify their nation above all others or promote violence. No one really cares. The German lyrics are only emphasised because of Nazism's belief that Germans are indeed above all.

National anthems are like prayers: people learn them by heart and most don't even think twice about what they are singing. Take the Maltese anthem. It asks God to enlighten its conquerers yet the Maltese still proudly sang it as a sign of defiance in a football match in 1945 vs Yugoslavia, protesting that they had played God Save the King, the anthem of said conquerers. And the same lyrics are still there in our anthem after almost 44 years of being a Republic.

MUTU wrote:If winning 6 matches four years ago allows you to claim you're the best now, then Bayern should claim they're the best now on virtue of having won several CL matches five years ago.

FIFA rankings are a joke. They took a scientific, world-approved, standard algorithm (Elo) and simplified it terribly just so that the man in the street could understand how it's being worked out. Simply ridiculous.

As I said, the only two official measures. Doesn't mean they are objective.

There hasn't been a world cup since 2014 so Germany are the world champions and therefore, for official purposes, the best. There have been several CLs since Bayern won.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:25 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
MUTU wrote:If winning 6 matches four years ago allows you to claim you're the best now, then Bayern should claim they're the best now on virtue of having won several CL matches five years ago.

FIFA rankings are a joke. They took a scientific, world-approved, standard algorithm (Elo) and simplified it terribly just so that the man in the street could understand how it's being worked out. Simply ridiculous.

As I said, the only two official measures. Doesn't mean they are objective.

There hasn't been a world cup since 2014 so Germany are the world champions and therefore, for official purposes, the best. There have been several CLs since Bayern won.

I don't think being champions and being the best are the same thing.

However even if you believe they are the same thing, and you want to go 'official': in the last major tournament participated in, Germany weren't crowned champions of Europe in EURO 2016. If that for you translates to them not being the best in Europe in 2016, then by extension they cannot be the best in the world 2 years later without playing in a major tournament (Confederations Cup is a joke).

Even if you still think they're the best, despite what I explained above, I still don't think they should push it into others' faces. I for one would really have hated seeing an Italian slogan in 2010 saying they were the best, even if it wasn't official :lol:

To me the slogan translates to: "You're inferior to us. We're going to win the World Cup again."
Perhaps that's why I'm seeing it so arrogant.

It's not the first time, either. Germans infuriated the Italians in 2006 with this:
Image

Then in 2012 with this:
Image
and
Image

So I don't know, perhaps they can try being humble for a change. It definitely helps gain respect and make friends.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:35 am

the past holders have all been eliminated in the group phase... will Germany follow the trend ?
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:48 am

ramsej84 wrote:the past holders have all been eliminated in the group phase... will Germany follow the trend ?

"all", "trend". Meh.

It's happened a few times lately, but that's not "all".

In 1958, West Germany finished 4th.
In 1978, West Germany reached the 2nd round, though that was also a group at the time.
In 1994, Germany reached the QFs
In 2006, Germany finished 3rd.

Germany not qualifying from the group phase would mean that 2 or 3 out of Mexico, Sweden and South Korea need to score better. While entirely possible, it looks highly unlikely.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby 1911 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:15 pm

Well Spain’s chances just took a hit after firing their coach.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:17 pm

1911 wrote:Well Spain’s chances just took a hit after firing their coach.
Who knows..?

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby tflags » Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:22 pm

ramsej84 wrote:the past holders have all been eliminated in the group phase... will Germany follow the trend ?


Argentina won in Maradona '86 and went on to the finals in Italia '90. Not so sure about that one.

And I'm pretty sure Brazil has won two back to back titles at least once. With or without Pelé.

And of course no European team has won the Cup in South American soil nor have they beaten Italy in a competitive match before so these spells can't be broken of course.
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