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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
2
8%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
6
23%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
11
42%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
7
27%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:18 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
FCB12Forever wrote:
Manchu wrote:However, he's actually considered to be a pretty good talent(although not sure Lewandowski material), it's just that he's still very young.


Thiago said Werner reminds him of a younger version of Torres. So you are right, not Lewa material.

Torres was phenomenal, what are you on about?


Not the type for Lewa. But yes he has enormous potential. I would be happy if he really walks down the road of Torres.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:18 am

America USA wrote:
America USA wrote:Serious Question: If Reus is fit by the Schlake game (04/15/2018) and then plays in the remaining five Dortmund games till the season ends and manages to play decently and somehow stays injury free till June. Should he be in the final 23 man squad?

Personally I think Yes. Why? Because Reus seems like a smart player who can adapt to the NT team system within a few games.


Thoughts?


No questions asked. He should go to Russia.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:46 am

YlonenXabi wrote:I might be forgetting someone :twisted:

GK: Neuer, Ter Stegen, Ulreich
Defenders: Kimmich, Hummels, Boateng, Sule, Ruediger, Hector, Plattenhardt
Midfield: Kroos, Khedira, Guendogan, Goretzka, Rudy
Attacking Midfield: Mueller, Oezil, Goetze, Reus, Draxler, Schuerrle
Forwards: Wagner, Werner


Goetze or Sane based on their form at the end of the season

Can deserves to be there ahead of both Khedira and Rudy, in my opinion.
I'd take Sane over Schuerrle hands down.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:35 pm

MUTU wrote:
Can deserves to be there ahead of both Khedira and Rudy, in my opinion.
I'd take Sane over Schuerrle hands down.


Agree on Can over Khedira/Rudy but Sane (for all his talent) has been BAD for the NT. If Schurrle has a decent end to the season with Dortmund, I would take him over Sane.

Sometimes certain players play better for the NT (Podolski?) and that is true for Schurrle I guess. As for Sane, he is still Young and maybe Low can get him more involved into the NT setup post WC and get him ready for Euro 2020.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:54 pm

Probably Loew believes in this ...
A team over a team of players

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:36 pm

You lot are seriously underrating Khedira. He's the only German player on the planet capable of playing alongside and complementing the indispensable Kroos, which also makes him indispensable.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:18 pm

Can is currently better than Khedira in the DM role alongside Kroos. I still hope that Khedira can finish the season better especially with two good displays against Real Madrid.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:39 pm

Can is not a DM, and neither is he good.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:29 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:Can is not a DM, and neither is he good.

Look dude I think that you have your favourites (Khedira, Dahoud in the BVB thread) and that is fine!

However, Can does primarily play as a DM for his club Liverpool and has on occasion played there for Germany as well. Even Wikipedia and Transfermarkt say so.

And “Good” is a subjective term. For example if a person has his/her favourites then for him/her that favourite player will always remain “Good”. For instance, for Roonzil, Thiago will always remain good, for MUTU, Gomez and for me it is Müller.

The truth is that the majority of Juventus fans online don’t have a favourable opinion of Khedira. Check out Valerio’s (our resident Juve fan) first post on page 156 of the Italian football thread. I don’t watch Juve too often but whenever I have seen him play for Juve in a big game he has been completely ineffective in the midfield. The ugliest illustration of this was in the CL final last season when Khedira was non-existent in midfield in that second half and Real were absolutely dominating Juventus. As a DM he should have committed a few tactical fouls to try and break Madrid’s rhythm. In both legs against Tottenham this season it was more of the same, apart from a brief 20 minute spell when he assisted Higuain.

It is the same with the NT, he is nowhere near as a DM what he was four years ago.

IMO Khedira has been getting worse since Euro 2016. He has never been the same player since he went off with injury against Italy in the QF. Expecting him to do the dirty defensive work is not possible nowadays because of how fragile he has become. In a 50-50 challenge with Thiago against Spain he came out worse.

I’m not saying Can is amongst the elite DMs like Kante, Busquets, Casemiro or De Rossi but neither is Khedira.

This season I’ve seen Can do the defensive dirty work for Liverpool in midfield playing alongside other guys like Coutinho, Wijnaldum, Henderson, Milner and Oxlade-Chamberlain. He has done a decent job in that role.

If transfer rumours are to be believed then Can is likely to replace Khedira at Juventus next season and the latter is likely to go to MLS.

If Weigl can step up with Dortmund then IMO, Can and Weigl should be picked ahead of Khedira and Rudy.

Dumbledore7 wrote:You lot are seriously underrating Khedira.

Conversely it can be said that you are overrating Khedira :roll:
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:23 am

Favourites? Quick of you to accuse. I was more unconvinced about Arnold than I was hyping up Dahoud. I guarantee I've watched much more of Can and Khedira than you, so please don't link me Wikipedia or Transfermarkt pages.

Just because Can is shown on a static Transfermarkt picture to nominally play DM, doesn't mean he's a DM. He's a player who thrives on chaos, and doesn't have the best discipline in positioning himself. He roams quickly enough to press forward and chase down players. This is good for Liverpool, but shouldn't work in Germany especially when Kroos would be playing next to him. Indeed Can may well be a better fit for Juventus on that note.

I'd almost go as far as saying the Juventus fans don't know what they're talking about, because Khedira's quite obviously the easy scapegoat for them like Alonso for us, being a slow, clean, non-flashy midfielder. Easy to say that he "does nothing or ineffective". But let's just assume the Juventus fans are right.

When Germany is in possession, which is most of the time, the only thing you need is to have a player who's smart enough to position himself just right - far enough from the edge of the box and close enough to Kroos to be an easy passing target when under pressure, and just recirculate the ball. Simple, but need someone very intelligent. Khedira is the only player who can do that. Gündoğan may also be able to, judging from his game against Chelsea in early March, but that's one time. Can, being quite undisciplined, won't be able to and will just piss off Kroos.

As far as the "defensive dirty work" goes, I don't really care and it seems like neither do Löw and Kroos. Mind you that Can only does those work because he's physically able to, being quite strong and fast, but he doesn't have any defensive instinct in his mind. Khedira does, but no longer has the ability. So Germany's screwed either way really.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:46 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:Favourites? Quick of you to accuse. I was more unconvinced about Arnold than I was hyping up Dahoud. I guarantee I've watched much more of Can and Khedira than you, so please don't link me Wikipedia or Transfermarkt pages.

Just because Can is shown on a static Transfermarkt picture to nominally play DM, doesn't mean he's a DM. He's a player who thrives on chaos, and doesn't have the best discipline in positioning himself. He roams quickly enough to press forward and chase down players. This is good for Liverpool, but shouldn't work in Germany especially when Kroos would be playing next to him. Indeed Can may well be a better fit for Juventus on that note.

I'd almost go as far as saying the Juventus fans don't know what they're talking about, because Khedira's quite obviously the easy scapegoat for them like Alonso for us, being a slow, clean, non-flashy midfielder. Easy to say that he "does nothing or ineffective". But let's just assume the Juventus fans are right.

When Germany is in possession, which is most of the time, the only thing you need is to have a player who's smart enough to position himself just right - far enough from the edge of the box and close enough to Kroos to be an easy passing target when under pressure, and just recirculate the ball. Simple, but need someone very intelligent. Khedira is the only player who can do that. Gündoğan may also be able to, judging from his game against Chelsea in early March, but that's one time. Can, being quite undisciplined, won't be able to and will just piss off Kroos.

As far as the "defensive dirty work" goes, I don't really care and it seems like neither do Löw and Kroos. Mind you that Can only does those work because he's physically able to, being quite strong and fast, but he doesn't have any defensive instinct in his mind. Khedira does, but no longer has the ability. So Germany's screwed either way really.

I'm just going to leave these two links here whilst reminding you that one plays for a dominant team in a weaker league and the other for an above-average team in a stronger league...

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/13764 ... mi-Khedira
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/111212/Show/Emre-Can
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:55 am

Juve is above average?

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:43 am

MUTU wrote:I'm just going to leave these two links here whilst reminding you that one plays for a dominant team in a weaker league and the other for an above-average team in a stronger league...

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/13764 ... mi-Khedira
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/111212/Show/Emre-Can

I’ve already said I watch both of them a lot, in fact both Juventus and Liverpool a couple times every month - I do the scorings myself. Your stats are for those who don’t watch. Does WhoScored take into account positioning and intelligence when in possession? Does it indicate who can play better with Kroos? Doesn’t Goalimpact indicate that Khedira should start for Germany, so why don’t I just lazily use that to counter your argument (which is not even yours, it’s WhoScored’s)? How would you know how they’d play for Germany, and not their club teams?

You don’t even seem to have anything to say about either players based off your own subjective opinion.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby ramsej84 » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:17 pm

Let me to decide.
Khedira sings the National Anthem on the other hand Emre Can does not.

Therefore Khedira to Russia Can stays home or else he can go to Turkey for his summer break

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 30, 2018 12:52 pm

ramsej84 wrote:Let me to decide.
Khedira sings the National Anthem on the other hand Emre Can does not.

Therefore Khedira to Russia Can stays home or else he can go Turkey for his summer break

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Hahahahaha guess that's settled then
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