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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
2
8%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
6
23%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
11
42%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
7
27%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:25 pm

Just noticed, as Jorge said, that No Dortmund players have been called up. Strange because I was expecting Schurrle and Gotze to make it and I wanted to see the latter against Spain!
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:43 pm

MUTU wrote:What about Faehrmann?

To tell you the truth I personally believe that none of the 3 goalkeepers is at Germany's level.
1) I have never considered MATS a world class keeper worthy of a team like Germany or Barcelona.
2) Trapp could have been better if he had chosen to go elsewhere and play regularly.
3) I put Leno at the same level of MATS, decent but not exceptional to fill the gloves of an absent Neuer.
Sven, Horn and Faehrmann a better trio in general.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:46 pm

America USA wrote:Just noticed, as Jorge said, that No Dortmund players have been called up. Strange because I was expecting Schurrle and Gotze to make it and I wanted to see the latter against Spain!

I think Loew saw the match last night and he's saving the Dortmund players for the 2nd June friendly against Austria :mrgreen:
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:00 am

I've never been a huge fan of Ter Stegen either, but you can't deny the fact that he is playing world class with Barcelona this year
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Isabella » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:28 am

YlonenXabi wrote:I've never been a huge fan of Ter Stegen either, but you can't deny the fact that he is playing world class with Barcelona this year

Exactly. I like him and think he is rightfully the second best German goalkeeper, while Färmann, Horn and Ulreich are about on the same level of Leno and all of them better and more deserving than Trapp (who need to swap the PSG bench with a starter place in another team)
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Sat Mar 17, 2018 7:31 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I've never been a huge fan of Ter Stegen either, but you can't deny the fact that he is playing world class with Barcelona this year

You have a point although he has never shown that level with Germany. I was not particularly impressed by him at last year's Conf Cup when he was average at best besides Germany winning the tournament and before that when he was given the gloves he was more in the mediocre side.
Let's not forget that hitting top form for a summer tournament is not necessarily the same as being in form at club level.
But I concede that testing Horn or Farhmann who probably don't look as impressive because they play for more modest sides could be a gamble.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:57 pm

Image

I am so glad that they replace the stupid stripped gray away jersey

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:58 pm

Can't see tweet? Click here!
Interestingly, goalimpact sees Khedira as still good enough to start for the NT.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:11 am

Manchu wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!
Interestingly, goalimpact sees Khedira as still good enough to start for the NT.
Pretty predictable, except for Khedira. Only surprises are Wagner instead of Werner. Wonder if the algorithm would produce want surprises if they included all German players (thus also Reus and Gündogan) and it were done for viable formations only.

Leftback is the only gap, I guess.

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:04 am

On present form Rudy, Khedira and Trapp have no business being in the NT. Arnold, Meyer and Ulreich are currently better than those three.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Dumbledore7 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:12 pm

Manchu wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!
Interestingly, goalimpact sees Khedira as still good enough to start for the NT.


No surprises. For his lack of footballing skills, Khedira is in the top 5 most intelligent players in the national team. Very useful player and hardly ever put a foot wrong under Löw. Far better than Rudy may even be more impactful than Weigl.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:40 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:Only surprises are Wagner instead of Werner.


Werner has a GI of 121, which was "surprisingly low" as I commented earlier on @Manchu 's post. At this number he shouldn't even make it to the 23-men roster of the NT.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:07 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Only surprises are Wagner instead of Werner.


Werner has a GI of 121, which was "surprisingly low" as I commented earlier on @Manchu 's post. At this number he shouldn't even make it to the 23-men roster of the NT.
Pretty sure that Loew does not choose the squad from Goalimpact.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:55 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Only surprises are Wagner instead of Werner.


Werner has a GI of 121, which was "surprisingly low" as I commented earlier on @Manchu 's post. At this number he shouldn't even make it to the 23-men roster of the NT.

It's probably higher than that now because he's gotten older and(presumably) developed, but you're exactly. on point However, he's actually considered to be a pretty good talent(although not sure Lewandowski material), it's just that he's still very young. For better or worse, goalimpact will almost always chooses an older and more mature(but less talented) player over a young talent. You might notice that even the much more talented and slightly older Sane couldn't even get in the "goalimpact choice" lineup and the only player under 23 who made it in was Brandt, who is, for better or worse, still seen as absolutely phenomenal talent by goalimpact; the only other German talents just about ever (other than Brandt) who probably would have been able to get into this particular lineup on a goalimpact basis alone shortly after turning 22 were the young Thomas Muller and the young Mario Gotze.

Of course, the current national team is incredibly hard to break into due to the shear ability of the current players.

Moreover, goalimpact sees Wagner as an excellent player who would start for all but a small handful of club teams(I'm not exactly certain, but I'm guessing with ~172 he might be within the top 10 strikers in the world by goalimpact). A lot of people would be surprised with that, but he's impressed me so far. He scores a ton of goals and works very hard defensively, and I believe those to be good characteristics for a striker.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Pretty predictable, except for Khedira. Only surprises are Wagner instead of Werner. Wonder if the algorithm would produce want surprises if they included all German players (thus also Reus and Gündogan) and it were done for viable formations only.

Leftback is the only gap, I guess.

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Gundogan was called up. It seems like Kimmich barely edged him for a "starting spot." Generally, across multiple algorithms(being rated similarly across multiple algorithms increases my confidence that goalimpact is rating a player correctly) he tends to be seen as an excellent player, but always somewhat short of being one of the truly elite midfielders like Kroos, Busquets, or Thiago. Of course, the current algorithm might somewhat underrate him.

Reus is unlikely to make the starting 11 purely based on his goalimpact, although he would if his current performance level(measured by the blue line) was used instead, as he has been performing at a vert high level ever since he joined Dortmund, but hasn't seen his career based goalimpact rise too much because he was seen as pretty dismal before he joined Dortmund and because his playing time at Dortmund has been limited by his many injuries, giving him less playing time performing at a high level to raise his average : Can't see tweet? Click here!
I think Reus' case does illustrate the limits of goalimpact in that it doesn't always respond fast enough to a dramatic improvement in performance level.

The three players who, if they were called up, would by their goalimacts, instantly walk into this starting lineup are Gotze, Neuer, and Badstuber. With Badstuber, as the vast majority of his playing time is pre-injury, it's unclear if his performance level is accurately measured, but the other two cases are clear cut.

Finally, the starting lineup that I could think of which combines some remote viability(and only players who have been called up within the recent past) with goalimpact maximization is this:
Image

I'm not sure how well it would work, but it would be interesting to see it tried. It seems like it would be good against teams that park the bus(one forward with tremendous aerial ability inside, two excellent crossers on the outside, Khedira and Kimmich looking to pop up and cause chaos, Boateng and Kimmich delivering long balls from deep out wide, Hummels and Kroos controlling the tempo of play, Neuer playing like a midfielder).
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby #12 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:37 pm

That right there is a group stage exit crew
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