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General German national team thread

Discussions on international matches played by Germany's senior national team and youth teams.
 

Should Joachim Löw remain the German coach?

Yes, he is a great coach.
1
7%
Yes, because at the moment there's not many options.
3
21%
No, he should resign as Germany needs a new direction.
6
43%
No, he should be fired as he's doing a terrible job.
4
29%
 
Total votes : 14

Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Wed Mar 14, 2018 6:02 am

America USA wrote:https://www.bundesliga.com/en/news/Bundesliga/joachim-low-s-germany-world-cup-squad-philipp-max-sven-ulreich-dark-horses-468852.jsp?smartformat=true%26utm_source=smartformat%26utm_medium=products%26utm_term=english%26utm_content=article

^ Interesting names but I think only Sven and maybe Uth have a serious case from the names on that list.


Based on depth by position Sven and Philipp Max. If Neuer does not recover he is competing against two distant "seconds" and based on his current form I take him over MATS. Philip Max basically has only Hector ahead of him as leftback, the others that Low tried are not anything near a lock.

Uth and Füllkrug are a long shot with Werner, Wagner and Gomez ahead of them for this one position.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:06 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:For example; France has a brilliant young attack (Dembele, Mbappe and Griezmann) but then their midfield and defense are suspect while their keeper... Who even is their keeper?


Lloris is not bad imo.

PunkCapitalist wrote:Spain has some brilliant defenders and midfielders but I don't think they can conjure even a single WC attacker.


They are now playing like the pre-08 Spain. A great example of how this plays out is the U21 final, where Asensio and Saul were outclassed by a bunch of "farmers" (as they said lol!).
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Thu Mar 15, 2018 12:57 am

FCB12Forever wrote:They are now playing like the pre-08 Spain. A great example of how this plays out is the U21 final, where Asensio and Saul were outclassed by a bunch of "farmers" (as they said lol!).

I'm not sure how that proves that Spain has become a bunch of bottlers. The U21 German team despite not having:
Can't see tweet? Click here!(not to mention Can and Weigl)
was actually significantly better
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:37 am

Manchu wrote:was actually significantly better


After FC Bayern had given up on Brandt, I have grown more skeptical about GoalImpact. I'm not saying GI's completely bullshit, but you clearly cannot put Brandt (GI = 140 iirc) above Mbappe (GI = 114). I 100% agree with you that Brandt has a genius' head, where he could analyze and sometimes even predict what happens on pitch. But from what I have observed, Brandt's "hardware" (i.e. physicality, speed) has severly limited his potential, to the extent that 1) Bayern gave up on him; 2) Herrlich rarely starts him. Brandt could still become a very good player, and considering his smartness he might even surpass some of the hyped superstar teenagers (given they eat a lot of junk food and do some stupid stuff, like Dembele), but I doubt he would become a super star himself. Simple: his physicality does not allow him to. But he might become a great coach after he retires!

As for Germany U21 and Spain U21, I see no reason that German U21 is stronger than the Spanish team with Saul, Asensio and Ceballos. You really don't compare Max Arnold with Asensio, Haberer with Ceballos. The reason Germany won, I think, was due to Kuntz's tactics.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:52 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
Manchu wrote:was actually significantly better


After FC Bayern had given up on Brandt, I have grown more skeptical about GoalImpact. I'm not saying GI's completely bullshit, but you clearly cannot put Brandt (GI = 140 iirc) above Mbappe (GI = 114). I 100% agree with you that Brandt has a genius' head, where he could analyze and sometimes even predict what happens on pitch. But from what I have observed, Brandt's "hardware" (i.e. physicality, speed) has severly limited his potential, to the extent that 1) Bayern gave up on him; 2) Herrlich rarely starts him. Brandt could still become a very good player, and considering his smartness he might even surpass some of the hyped superstar teenagers (given they eat a lot of junk food and do some stupid stuff, like Dembele), but I doubt he would become a super star himself. Simple: his physicality does not allow him to. But he might become a great coach after he retires!

As for Germany U21 and Spain U21, I see no reason that German U21 is stronger than the Spanish team with Saul, Asensio and Ceballos. You really don't compare Max Arnold with Asensio, Haberer with Ceballos. The reason Germany won, I think, was due to Kuntz's tactics.
???

And what, Müller does have that amazing hardware you talk about?

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:04 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:??

And what, Müller does have that amazing hardware you talk about?


His potential has already been limited, but still he is a very good player. I partially blame Ancelotti for exploiting his limitation.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:15 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:??

And what, Müller does have that amazing hardware you talk about?


His potential has already been limited, but still he is a very good player. I partially blame Ancelotti for exploiting his limitation.
Wait, what?

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby FCB12Forever » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:20 am

PunkCapitalist wrote:Wait, what?


If Muller had the desired physicality, probably he would be the one who wins 4 - 5 Ballon d'or 's.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:44 pm

FCB12Forever wrote:
PunkCapitalist wrote:Wait, what?


If Muller had the desired physicality, probably he would be the one who wins 4 - 5 Ballon d'or 's.
Ok, then.

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby #12 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:18 pm

Müller is faster, mire intelligent, has a better shot and foot than Brandt... Brandt is more skilled technically but that’s about it...
JUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPPJUPP
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Manchu » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:44 am

FCB12Forever wrote:
Manchu wrote:was actually significantly better


After FC Bayern had given up on Brandt, I have grown more skeptical about GoalImpact. I'm not saying GI's completely bullshit, but you clearly cannot put Brandt (GI = 140 iirc) above Mbappe (GI = 114). I 100% agree with you that Brandt has a genius' head, where he could analyze and sometimes even predict what happens on pitch. But from what I have observed, Brandt's "hardware" (i.e. physicality, speed) has severly limited his potential, to the extent that 1) Bayern gave up on him; 2) Herrlich rarely starts him. Brandt could still become a very good player, and considering his smartness he might even surpass some of the hyped superstar teenagers (given they eat a lot of junk food and do some stupid stuff, like Dembele), but I doubt he would become a super star himself. Simple: his physicality does not allow him to. But he might become a great coach after he retires!

As for Germany U21 and Spain U21, I see no reason that German U21 is stronger than the Spanish team with Saul, Asensio and Ceballos. You really don't compare Max Arnold with Asensio, Haberer with Ceballos. The reason Germany won, I think, was due to Kuntz's tactics.

Oh, you're right about the U21 team. There is no way you can compare Max Meyer, Max Phillip, and Max Arnold to Asencio, Saul, and Ceballos. After all, the Spanish players have received far more hype(are we still supposed to hype Ceballos now that he's sitting on the bench at Real Madrid?), while the German players(well, other than Sane) seem to repeal it. Ascencio seems to be a good talent, but he seems to have done very little to deserve the treatment he gets as a certain future superstar.

Anyways, the main reasons that goalimpact saw the German players as vastly superior in that match was that they were on average a year older than the Spanish players, giving them a massive advantage in physicality(which you appear to believe is particularly important) and tactical maturity. Purely on talent level, I would guess that the two teams were about equal, which was still a massive achievement for Germany because the best U21 German players were either at the Confederations Cup or injured.

I don't see any point in arguing about the relative merits of Brandt and Mbappe point by point, aside from mentioning that "little things" like correct positioning are very important to the team, that the game has two directions and defense is important to the team(and hence goalimpact), that the two players are playing in leagues of different qualities and for teams of different qualities, and that it is perfectly possible for a player to take actions that makes them look more impressive but are ultimately detrimental to the team. Finally, Brandt is not bad physically in any manner, he's just not incredibly fast, and people would be far more forgiving of him on this matter if he played as a number 10 or deeper in midfield(like many people want, but isn't very possible with Leverkusen's current squad).

Additionally, Brandt has started the vast majority of game this season and probably more often than any attacking player at Leverkusen other than Bailey. He was benched for the last two games, but in each case he scored after coming on late, so I'm taking a wild guess and saying he's probably back in starting 11 for the future.

Finally, all I will say about about your focus on physicality is that you appear to want to take German youth development back to the 90s, where the only thing that mattered was physicality. That system produced such wonderful talents as Michael Ballack and no one else, so I must say I oppose your desires with all my heart, especially after all the riches of the last 8 years.

You are right in that goalimpact would not support such an endeavor as it generally sees more intelligent players as significantly better than more physical players. Muller is seen as much better than Bale, Busquets is seen as much better than Vidal, Pique is seen as much better than Sokratis(the only dumb and physical CB I could think of), and Kimmich is seen as much better than Hector Bellerin.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby DRvad14 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:34 pm

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Re: General German national team thread

Postby America USA » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:44 pm


Heartbreaking for Ulreich to not be selected over one of Leno or Trapp. Not selecting Reus a wise decision IMO.

Three strikers? :-k
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby Jorge » Fri Mar 16, 2018 2:58 pm

It is hard to understand how Kevin Trapp can be picked over Ulreich. Trapp has played in 8 games in the entire season, only 2 if you mean meaningful games because most of them are low profile early rounds of Cup against weak opponents that looked like training. Sven on the other hand has played 33 games including 7 Champions League Games and 21 BL Games.

Other than that hopefully Goretzka's inclusion is to give him a chance to prove himself with Germany because at club level his recent form is a few notches below players that seem to be picking up steam like the Dortmund trio of Schürrle, Weigl and Götze
Last edited by Jorge on Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: General German national team thread

Postby MUTU » Fri Mar 16, 2018 3:03 pm

Jorge wrote:It is hard to understand how Kevin Trapp can be picked over Ulreich. Trapp has played in 8 games in the entire season, only 2 if you mean meaningful games because most of them are low profile early rounds of Cup against weak opponents that looked like training. Sven on the other hand has played 33 games including 7 Champions League Games and 21 BL Games.

Other than that hopefully Goretzka's inclusion is to give him a chance to prove himself with Germany because at club level his recent shape is a few notches below players that seem to be picking up steam like the Dortmund trio of Schürrle, Weigl and Götze
What about Faehrmann?
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