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Schalke 04

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Re: Schalke 04

Postby tuscanybayern » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:20 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Or maybe if you have better owners you'll invest better, or can even maybe try to keep players rather than selling them, but I don't know :coffee: Hey, at least the Germans can still take pride in something that very clearly make German football shit!


There are no "better owners" only richer owners.

The 50+1 rule prevent the rise of oil/gas football clubs. And yet, for every PSG there is an Anzhi Makhachkala, for every Manchester City an Hull City and for every Srivaddhanaprabha (former owner of Leicester City) there is an Erick Thohir (former owner of Inter Milan,).

You can have better managers, chairmen, sporting directors etc....regardless of the 50+1.
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby Dumbledore7 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:54 pm

tuscanybayern wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Or maybe if you have better owners you'll invest better, or can even maybe try to keep players rather than selling them, but I don't know :coffee: Hey, at least the Germans can still take pride in something that very clearly make German football shit!


There are no "better owners" only richer owners.

Yeah and in all likelihood, rich owners are probably better at running a business which is what a football club is. Also performing under higher financial expectations means you can afford less floppy decisions which can only be better.

tuscanybayern wrote:The 50+1 rule prevent the rise of oil/gas football clubs. And yet, for every PSG there is an Anzhi Makhachkala, for every Manchester City an Hull City and for every Srivaddhanaprabha (former owner of Leicester City) there is an Erick Thohir (former owner of Inter Milan,).

You mean preventing rise of oil clubs in Germany. Besides, opening up to corporate ownership in Germany in particular may not imply oil/gas owners as much as it would in other places. Germany already have some of the world's most powerful corporations who can diversify to football - in fact it's virtually happened with the likes of Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim, both relatively new yet consistent clubs.

Also I wouldn't worry about there being a new Anzhi, because 1) there's a risk in everything 2) the Bundesliga is already dangerously close to that level anyways

tuscanybayern wrote:You can have better managers, chairmen, sporting directors etc....regardless of the 50+1.

If you keep having to sell players every season, refresh the squad every season, not possible to get good results even for the best coach in the world.

Keep in mind that Leipzig had practically circumvented 50+1 and they're the best performing club in Germany for their size.
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby RedQueen » Mon Mar 04, 2019 5:27 pm

Tedesco stays for now because they've bottled the contract situation with their new sports chairman Jochen Schneider. They can't formally appoint Schneider until March 14th, because they missed some deadline. Wit Heidel gone there's literally nobody at the club who can dismiss Tedesco.

I wonder whether Schneider already regrets having taking the job.
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Mar 04, 2019 8:21 pm

According to reports in Germany in December, several Schalke players were frustrated at the amount of rotation from game to game while others thought Tedesco too academic and unable to communicate his ideas correctly.

+ Mark Uth, Sebastian Rudy, Omar Mascarell, Suat Serdar, Steven Skrzybski and Salif Sané.

- Leon Goretzka, Max Meyer and Thilo Kehrer.

And there is nothing left from their solid defense last season.
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby Fénix » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:15 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:According to reports in Germany in December, several Schalke players were frustrated at the amount of rotation from game to game while others thought Tedesco too academic and unable to communicate his ideas correctly.

+ Mark Uth, Sebastian Rudy, Omar Mascarell, Suat Serdar, Steven Skrzybski and Salif Sané.

- Leon Goretzka, Max Meyer and Thilo Kehrer.

And there is nothing left from their solid defense last season.

Their recent transfer policy was disgusting and add to that their retarded mentality - you get this.

They serve quite well as a farmville and that's it. They are a club who perform and impress in flashes once in a while, every 4-5 years. Their "golden era" in Bundesliga is late 90's and early 2000's, but they failed to win 2000/2001(we took them that joy in Hamburg that incredible, wonderful sunny afternoon <3 :P ). They have had their chances with Neuer, Höwedes, Raúl, Farfan, Draxler between 2010 and 2012, they failed as always. Historic semifinal in 2011 vs United and later an instant decline.

Schalke are one of the most disgusting stories of modern football and they can't simply change their ID of an ethernal loser. Whenever they make 1 or 2 steps forward, play an excellent season, in the next 2 seasons they make 7 steps back.

Who still hasn't learned what kind of a club is S04, he is never going to learn. There's no cure for them, not even almost a decade long Gazprom sponsorship nor players like Raúl, Neuer, Goretzka, Draxler, Höwedes, Sané, Kehrer, etc.

I pity their fans because every 1-2 years they must be so humiliated by their club, management, players, etc.
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Mar 04, 2019 9:35 pm

Fénix wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:According to reports in Germany in December, several Schalke players were frustrated at the amount of rotation from game to game while others thought Tedesco too academic and unable to communicate his ideas correctly.

+ Mark Uth, Sebastian Rudy, Omar Mascarell, Suat Serdar, Steven Skrzybski and Salif Sané.

- Leon Goretzka, Max Meyer and Thilo Kehrer.

And there is nothing left from their solid defense last season.

Their recent transfer policy was disgusting and add to that their retarded mentality - you get this.

They serve quite well as a farmville and that's it. They are a club who perform and impress in flashes once in a while, every 4-5 years. Their "golden era" in Bundesliga is late 90's and early 2000's, but they failed to win 2000/2001(we took them that joy in Hamburg that incredible, wonderful sunny afternoon <3 :P ). They have had their chances with Neuer, Höwedes, Raúl, Farfan, Draxler between 2010 and 2012, they failed as always. Historic semifinal in 2011 vs United and later an instant decline.

Schalke are one of the most disgusting stories of modern football and they can't simply change their ID of an ethernal loser. Whenever they make 1 or 2 steps forward, play an excellent season, in the next 2 seasons they make 7 steps back.

Who still hasn't learned what kind of a club is S04, he is never going to learn. There's no cure for them, not even almost a decade long Gazprom sponsorship nor players like Raúl, Neuer, Goretzka, Draxler, Höwedes, Sané, Kehrer, etc.

I pity their fans because every 1-2 years they must be so humiliated by their club, management, players, etc.


Well, imagine Shalke with this team:



:roll:
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:12 pm

That 50+1 rule is one of the problems, but not the main one IMO


Not so long ago (until 2012/2013) German teams were doing superb in terms of transfers and finance. I thought the Bundesliga CL final in Wembley was the beginning of a new era where German football could take over bigger leagues like Premier League or La Liga.

But it has been the total opposite. I really don't know what has happened, but most of the clubs that were doing well made plenty of retarded decisions and the quality of the league has dropped massively

I fail to comprehend how teams like Schalke or Leverkusen have failed to establish themselved in the top 4. Not even that, they've become a laughing stock in Europe and in Germany as well :?
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:16 pm

Just have a look at the transfers that Schalke have been doing in the last few seasons. I mean what the f*** ??? Random, mediocre and unknown players that nobody probably had heard of before. It's no surprise that they are an absolute joke. Who's scouting players for them? A BVB fan in disguise? #-o
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby IsiahRashad » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:22 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Just have a look at the transfers that Schalke have been doing in the last few seasons. I mean what the f*** ??? Random, mediocre and unknown players that nobody probably had heard of before. It's no surprise that they are an absolute joke. Who's scouting players for them? A BVB fan in disguise? #-o


Probably #12 in uniform. :)
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby Fénix » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:55 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:Well, imagine Shalke with this team:



:roll:

I'm still very convinced that even this team would fail. I guess wrong manager and coaching staff would be there to be a strong reason to screw everything. It's always something.

Rakitić would have never become a great player if he hadn't joined Sevilla and especially disgrace himself on Euro 12' in the 3rd match vs Spain with that header in front of Casillas. That awful, disgraceful miss changed his whole life and career.

Özil had to leave to play and become a real player at Werder Bremen and later sold to Real Madrid. The rest are more or less the part of the mentioned story and mentality, but we would always see some epic fail either with transfer policy or coach selection or both.

That's just Schalke - a club with an excellent youth academy that has given so many great German players over the last 15 years but also something like a cursed club - can't simply move to the next level every 2-3 years or at least stay on the same level constantly for 10 years.

I would start deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeply analyzing the history of the club after 2000/2001 and see why almost every 2-3 years they must both instantly and radically decline after one great season, for their standards a very successful one, in terms of season squad, results, business and immediately after the next one or two seasons are total tsunami, an earthquake of 20°C Richter degrees, etc.
Why picking idiots and amateurs of coaches in moments when you have great squad or extremely talented with a very high potential on the continent to ruin that all? Why big coaching name and investments and attracting top players? So much chaos and wandering in a labyrinth. :|

Atletico's slight fall was obvious after very successful 2013/2014 season, sold 2 vital players(Costa and Filipe to Chelsea) but still didn't cost them a CL spot, they only finished 4th and stabilized themselves that they immediately season after in 2015/2016 played another CL final and finished 2nd or 3rd in La Liga.

In the last 8 years, Schalke and Gladbach simply can't manage to perform something like that. Every time when they finished 3rd or 4th(2nd in Schalke's case), they would degraded themselves 5-10 spots lower next season.
In serious leagues and clubs this can't happen, specially in the league where a term "club competition" looks ridiculous.


Wolfsburg owners decided after two fantastic and extremely successful seasons(2013/2014 and 2014/2015) to destroy their own team and sold out everything what brought them great campaigns and results for the first time after their historic moment in 2008/2009.

Leverkusen is a total junk. After 2001/2002 they vanished as a serious side, pointless club with a pointless existence, pointless values and everything. An absolute farmville for European top sides and even those which aren't top sides but play in the same leagues as the mentioned ones. Even for Russian clubs in the past and last few years ideal for Chinese.
Great scouting network in South America for a German side, but no reputation, size, name and something that they'll never have - ambitions and vision like Benfica and Porto.
I won't forget what Jupp Heynckes actually did during a 2-year-spell at Bayer Leverkusen in 2009/2010 and 2010/2011, how he actually returned CL football to that city for the first time after 2004/2005 season. If he weren't their coach, they wouldn't see many of things and talents becoming real.

This what Schalke and other German sides offer to today's football is ridiculous. In the last decade it was still awesome because Bayern wasn't nearly as what has become in 2009/2010 and later while in 90's this worked brilliant because Bosman freak monster was just born in 1995 and it took 4-5 years to start shaping football in the way it has been for the last 17 years.

50+1 should have been removed 8-9 years ago, however, that wouldn't automatically change or switch power relations in German football nor those German fans would lose their importance and influence in their beloved clubs.
Germans do know how to create, manage and lead business, economy, banks, stock market, industry, infrastructure... Yet this cannot be said for football, their no. 1 sport.

I become very nostalgic about 90's and 2000's Bundesliga, but in this decade... and after 2013/2014... :? Nope.
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby PunkCapitalist » Tue Mar 05, 2019 3:49 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
tuscanybayern wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Or maybe if you have better owners you'll invest better, or can even maybe try to keep players rather than selling them, but I don't know :coffee: Hey, at least the Germans can still take pride in something that very clearly make German football shit!


There are no "better owners" only richer owners.

Yeah and in all likelihood, rich owners are probably better at running a business which is what a football club is. Also performing under higher financial expectations means you can afford less floppy decisions which can only be better.

tuscanybayern wrote:The 50+1 rule prevent the rise of oil/gas football clubs. And yet, for every PSG there is an Anzhi Makhachkala, for every Manchester City an Hull City and for every Srivaddhanaprabha (former owner of Leicester City) there is an Erick Thohir (former owner of Inter Milan,).

You mean preventing rise of oil clubs in Germany. Besides, opening up to corporate ownership in Germany in particular may not imply oil/gas owners as much as it would in other places. Germany already have some of the world's most powerful corporations who can diversify to football - in fact it's virtually happened with the likes of Wolfsburg and Hoffenheim, both relatively new yet consistent clubs.

Also I wouldn't worry about there being a new Anzhi, because 1) there's a risk in everything 2) the Bundesliga is already dangerously close to that level anyways

tuscanybayern wrote:You can have better managers, chairmen, sporting directors etc....regardless of the 50+1.

If you keep having to sell players every season, refresh the squad every season, not possible to get good results even for the best coach in the world.

Keep in mind that Leipzig had practically circumvented 50+1 and they're the best performing club in Germany for their size.
I honestly think abolishing 50+1 wouldn't even fix the problem. The rise of oil clubs is already a historic thing, nowadays a club attempting to rise the way Shitty or PSG did would be shortly cut shift by FFP. I don't think it's a viable model under current UEFA regulations.

But you do raise a valid point that richer owners might have better management know-how and more ambition. But the lack of ambition might also be an economical thing; BuLi is not attractive worldwide due to cultural issues and the German market isn't very profitable due to the German cultural relationship to football. These circumstances might make BuLi unattractive for an ambitious project.

In the case of the EPL, oil money already did it's thing: teams like Shitty don't need investment from the owners because the league already generates so much money naturally. Oil money kick-started the process, but their league is no longer dependant on it. PSG is different matter... Let's see how that ends, because last thing I read was that they were going to face financial problems once the cost of Neymar and Mbappe entered the books. Let's see how UEFA ends up reacting.

It is very discouraging that even a club with notable ambition and financial backing like RBL isn't able to retain it's key players (Keita, Werner?, Forsberg?).

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Re: Schalke 04

Postby RedQueen » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:43 pm

Schalke as a pure e.V. doesn't even fall under 50+1. Leverkusen and Wolfsburg are not subject to 50+1 either.

Leipzig's problem isn't 50+1 but the FFP restrictions, which somehow seem to apply to them but not the like of ManCity.
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:09 pm

Yes, it seems that FFP rules apply only to certain teams :|
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Re: Schalke 04

Postby Dumbledore7 » Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:14 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:Yes, it seems that FFP rules apply only to certain teams :|

Or more accurately teams do everything in their power to ensure the rules don't apply to them.

A Special Construct

The documents provided by Football Leaks made it clear just how brazen Manchester City was willing to be. Beginning in 2012, the team devised a special construct to systematically circumvent FFP rules, with team executives outsourcing costs to other companies, effectively hiding them from UEFA auditors. If they spent more during a season than intended, they had their sponsors from Abu Dhabi increase the fees they paid to the team andbackdated the money transfers to the beginning of the season. [source]
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