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General German football thread

Discussions on German clubs and football. Want to hear more about Borussia Dortmund, Schalke, Bayer Leverkusen and other Bundesliga teams? Find it all here.
 

Re: General German football thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:47 pm

Fénix wrote:If all traditional teams need to end up relegated in the 2nd division, then so be it. Maybe then Germans figure out what the hell is wrong with their country when it comes to football and why just Bayern is the only top club in the richest European country.

German handball league/Die Handball Bundesliga is the handball Premier League of the world, almost the NBA. In case of football, it's quite a different story.
Handball? XD It probably is the only league in the world xD

Anyway it is no wonder that the German league is falling behind. The radical "artisanal" "mom and pop" anticommercial attitude to football is not going to produce competitive teams.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby Lukas » Mon Dec 28, 2020 5:53 pm

So in handball is there a rule where “football” is an illegal play and a foul is given? :-k
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Mon Dec 28, 2020 6:18 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:It would be nice if Özil could return to Schalke this winter to save them from hell. Maybe there he could find some motivation again.


As much as I dislike Schalke, I don't think it's good for German football to see them relegated
And you think Özil could save them?
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Re: General German football thread

Postby Fénix » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:16 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:Handball? XD It probably is the only league in the world xD

Spoiler: show
Not really.
Spain and France are also handball nations and all Scandinavian countries(Denmark, Norway, Iceland, Sweden) and of course - Croatia. 8) :mrgreen:
French are the most successful ever and the last 15 years are colored in Tricolore total domination. We are also great and tried many times to end this domination, but they are in black cat in handball as well as in football. :) There are few North African teams that are also very good.
The sport is still very far from being popular like both football and basketball promotion of it by IHF is pathetic, ridiculous, something so childish how incompetent they are in IHF and EHF.


Lukas wrote:So in handball is there a rule where “football” is an illegal play and a foul is given? :-k

Spoiler: show
In forthcoming January you can see how it works in this sport. :D In fact, you can get 2 minutes if you intentionally prevented with your leg or foot the ball coming to the opponent's teammate. 3x you receive 2 minutes or one yellow card and 2x 2 minutes - red card.


#12 wrote:And you think Özil could save them?

@Xabi probably thought about a psychological effect of that move - with one top name to have something like Ibrahimović effect in Milan since in the past these moves sometimes knew to shake the whole club and turn everything in a positive direction and mood.


But if you ask me since this the thread about German football in general, Germany isn't going to lose absolutely anything with S04's being Absteiger just as the Bundesliga both domestically and internationally haven't lost anything at all with Stuttgart and HSV relegations in the last 3-4 years, previously Hannover, Kaiserslautern, 1860 München, etc.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby DRvad14 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:53 pm

2020: A stellar year for German coaches
2020 was a groundbreaking year for Jürgen Klopp, Julian Nagelsmann, Hansi Flick, Marco Rose and Thomas Tuchel. With German coaching seemingly at its zenith, what are the reasons behind such extraordinary success?
2020 was a year of unrelenting success for German coaches. Jürgen Klopp ended Liverpool’s 30-year wait for an English league title, Julian Nagelsmann and Thomas Tuchel spearheaded long runs in the Champions League, Marco Rose broke new ground with Borussia Mönchengladbach and Hansi Flick achieved the seemingly impossible with Bayern Munich: five trophies in his first season — including the coveted league, cup and Champions League treble.

While Klopp’s success has been years, if not decades, in the making, 2020 was more about breaking glass ceilings for Tuchel, Nagelsmann and Rose.

Charisma is key

Besides embracing cutting-edge analysis technologies and honing their crafts in the Bundesliga, there's something else that all of these coaches have in common: charisma.

Each has come through the DFB’s "Fussball-Lehrer" — Football Education — course, which has built a reputation as one of the most prestigious courses of its type in Europe. It is located in the town of Hennef, near Cologne, and admits just 25 coaches each year, a number whittled down from over 100 applicants. That will change in late 2021 when the course moves to a new state-of-the-art facility in Frankfurt and will admit just 20 applicants each year, making it even more exclusive.An engaging personality is a prerequisite for the course, which counts Nagelsmann and Rose among its more recent graduates. Daniel Niedzkowski, 44, has led the course since 2018, and as he explains, identifying which coaches possess charisma isn’t always easy.

“We spend time assessing each potential coach's football structure, analytical skills and ability to plan and perfom a training session,“ Niedzkowski tells DW.

"But we also look closely at their personalities and whether they have charisma. Do you look at coaches and believe and trust what they say? It's about how they project themselves, and it's very important for coaches to be able to convince their players of their methods. The trouble for us is that charisma is a very subjective thing."

Open-mindedness

In Nagelsmann’s case, it's not only charisma that has got him so far. His faith in technology is well documented, with his "video wall" at Hoffenheim having been replicated as an analytical tool at many clubs in Germany, but his collaborative approach and ability to critique his own methods also sets him apart.

"As far as I can tell, Julian Nagelsmann is always keen to find anything that can help him become a better coach," says Niedzkowski, who was also assistant coach at Bayer Leverkusen between 2013 and 2016.

"That is part of the reason why he has made this incredible progress: because he is very open to self-reflection and the input of others. There's an open-mindedness that is key to their development. That's not to say that older coaches aren't curious, but it's a big factor in why some of the coaches of the younger generation have risen so quickly."In a youthful league like the Bundesliga, a coach's ability to connect with young players is also of fundamental importance — not only in the first team but in academies. It’' a characteristic that each of these coach’s share.

"The Bundesliga is a league where a lot of young players get experience to play," says Niedzkowski.

"It’s very important that coaches in Germany know how to deal with that generation of player, many of whom are just teenagers. Sometimes — but not always — this comes easier to coaches who have come up through the youth ranks themselves."

Disciples of Klopp and Rangnick

At 53, Klopp is one of the older generation. His influence and that of Ralf Rangnick, who has worked closely with Nagelsmann and Rose, can be seen in the younger coaches that are on the rise — in their methods, personalities and footballing philosophies.

"Klopp and Rangnick have almost redefined what football should look like, and if you're not prepared to coach that way, most clubs in Germany are not interested," prominent German football writer Raphael Honigstein tells DW.

Much of the best work in German football is being done at Red Bull, both in Leipzig and in Salzburg, their two European hubs. They have assembled some of the brightest minds in coaching, and it's little surprise that most of Germany’s top coaches pass through there.

"Red Bull are working with incredible people who all understand football," Honigstein says. “If you are successful in that kind of environment, then it sets you up to be successful almost anywhere. It’s like the finishing school of German football — the Oxford or Cambridge of coaching. There is a culture of excellence."The Flick Factor

The most successful German coach of all in 2020 has undoubtedly been Bayern's Hansi Flick. He ends the year with more trophies than defeats in a quite astonishing year of success that no one saw coming, stepping out of the shadows in emphatic fashion.

With Bayern sensing that Niko Kovac's reign might come off the rails, Flick was installed as assistant coach in mid-2019 to be there in case he was required. He was required, and Flick was able to instantly connect with Bayern's German contingent, some of whom were not getting regular playing time under Kovac. Flick's technical work with Germany hadn't gone unnoticed, but his ability to win consistently and in a style not seen in Munich since the Pep Guardiola era surprised everyone.

"Flick kept such a low profile as an assistant coach that people assumed he didn't have the personality necessary to pull this off," Honigstein says.

"We like to think of coaches as these larger-than-life figures, and Flick had never really been that type."

Unlike Klopp, Flick may not fill a room with his persona. But alongside his technical abilities as a coach, Flick's ability to charm has allowed him to build a bond with his players and, in a matter of months, quietly transform Bayern into Europe's most thrilling and successful team. Proof, perhaps, that charisma can come in many different forms.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 3:03 pm

DRvad14 wrote:2020: A stellar year for German coaches
2020 was a groundbreaking year for Jürgen Klopp, Julian Nagelsmann, Hansi Flick, Marco Rose and Thomas Tuchel. With German coaching seemingly at its zenith, what are the reasons behind such extraordinary success?
2020 was a year of unrelenting success for German coaches. Jürgen Klopp ended Liverpool’s 30-year wait for an English league title, Julian Nagelsmann and Thomas Tuchel spearheaded long runs in the Champions League, Marco Rose broke new ground with Borussia Mönchengladbach and Hansi Flick achieved the seemingly impossible with Bayern Munich: five trophies in his first season — including the coveted league, cup and Champions League treble.

While Klopp’s success has been years, if not decades, in the making, 2020 was more about breaking glass ceilings for Tuchel, Nagelsmann and Rose.

Charisma is key

Besides embracing cutting-edge analysis technologies and honing their crafts in the Bundesliga, there's something else that all of these coaches have in common: charisma.

Each has come through the DFB’s "Fussball-Lehrer" — Football Education — course, which has built a reputation as one of the most prestigious courses of its type in Europe. It is located in the town of Hennef, near Cologne, and admits just 25 coaches each year, a number whittled down from over 100 applicants. That will change in late 2021 when the course moves to a new state-of-the-art facility in Frankfurt and will admit just 20 applicants each year, making it even more exclusive.An engaging personality is a prerequisite for the course, which counts Nagelsmann and Rose among its more recent graduates. Daniel Niedzkowski, 44, has led the course since 2018, and as he explains, identifying which coaches possess charisma isn’t always easy.

“We spend time assessing each potential coach's football structure, analytical skills and ability to plan and perfom a training session,“ Niedzkowski tells DW.

"But we also look closely at their personalities and whether they have charisma. Do you look at coaches and believe and trust what they say? It's about how they project themselves, and it's very important for coaches to be able to convince their players of their methods. The trouble for us is that charisma is a very subjective thing."

Open-mindedness

In Nagelsmann’s case, it's not only charisma that has got him so far. His faith in technology is well documented, with his "video wall" at Hoffenheim having been replicated as an analytical tool at many clubs in Germany, but his collaborative approach and ability to critique his own methods also sets him apart.

"As far as I can tell, Julian Nagelsmann is always keen to find anything that can help him become a better coach," says Niedzkowski, who was also assistant coach at Bayer Leverkusen between 2013 and 2016.

"That is part of the reason why he has made this incredible progress: because he is very open to self-reflection and the input of others. There's an open-mindedness that is key to their development. That's not to say that older coaches aren't curious, but it's a big factor in why some of the coaches of the younger generation have risen so quickly."In a youthful league like the Bundesliga, a coach's ability to connect with young players is also of fundamental importance — not only in the first team but in academies. It’' a characteristic that each of these coach’s share.

"The Bundesliga is a league where a lot of young players get experience to play," says Niedzkowski.

"It’s very important that coaches in Germany know how to deal with that generation of player, many of whom are just teenagers. Sometimes — but not always — this comes easier to coaches who have come up through the youth ranks themselves."

Disciples of Klopp and Rangnick

At 53, Klopp is one of the older generation. His influence and that of Ralf Rangnick, who has worked closely with Nagelsmann and Rose, can be seen in the younger coaches that are on the rise — in their methods, personalities and footballing philosophies.

"Klopp and Rangnick have almost redefined what football should look like, and if you're not prepared to coach that way, most clubs in Germany are not interested," prominent German football writer Raphael Honigstein tells DW.

Much of the best work in German football is being done at Red Bull, both in Leipzig and in Salzburg, their two European hubs. They have assembled some of the brightest minds in coaching, and it's little surprise that most of Germany’s top coaches pass through there.

"Red Bull are working with incredible people who all understand football," Honigstein says. “If you are successful in that kind of environment, then it sets you up to be successful almost anywhere. It’s like the finishing school of German football — the Oxford or Cambridge of coaching. There is a culture of excellence."The Flick Factor

The most successful German coach of all in 2020 has undoubtedly been Bayern's Hansi Flick. He ends the year with more trophies than defeats in a quite astonishing year of success that no one saw coming, stepping out of the shadows in emphatic fashion.

With Bayern sensing that Niko Kovac's reign might come off the rails, Flick was installed as assistant coach in mid-2019 to be there in case he was required. He was required, and Flick was able to instantly connect with Bayern's German contingent, some of whom were not getting regular playing time under Kovac. Flick's technical work with Germany hadn't gone unnoticed, but his ability to win consistently and in a style not seen in Munich since the Pep Guardiola era surprised everyone.

"Flick kept such a low profile as an assistant coach that people assumed he didn't have the personality necessary to pull this off," Honigstein says.

"We like to think of coaches as these larger-than-life figures, and Flick had never really been that type."

Unlike Klopp, Flick may not fill a room with his persona. But alongside his technical abilities as a coach, Flick's ability to charm has allowed him to build a bond with his players and, in a matter of months, quietly transform Bayern into Europe's most thrilling and successful team. Proof, perhaps, that charisma can come in many different forms.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Sat Jan 02, 2021 5:37 pm

Close enough
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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:06 pm

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Re: General German football thread

Postby MUTU » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:19 pm

Metzelder faces 29 charges of attempted distribution of child pornography to another person, and one charge of the possession of child and youth pornography. :o
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:54 pm

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Re: General German football thread

Postby Awax » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:23 pm

Hoffenheim crashed out in the R32 of EL, Leverkusen a few minutes away from following them. Leipzig will probably get kicked out, so are Gladbach. That will leave Bayern and Dortmund (if they don't choke against Sevilla) in European Competitions... german football isn't doing so good.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby Fénix » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:29 pm

Awax wrote:Hoffenheim crashed out in the R32 of EL, Leverkusen a few minutes away from following them. Leipzig will probably get kicked out, so are Gladbach. That will leave Bayern and Dortmund (if they don't choke against Sevilla) in European Competitions... german football isn't doing so good.

Depends on the angle you are looking from. More or less this is good and typical German European season and campaign. Clubs in Europa League end their competitions in group stages and Round of 16.

In the CL 2-3 teams qualify every season in the Round of 16 and then only FC Bayern progress to the 1/4 finals. Last season was very special and 2 German clubs were semifinalists after 7 years.

Europa League should have been all this time the competition where German clubs whose name isn't FC Bayern chase semifinals and win EL titles every once in a while.

But if we take a look at the last 10 years, Spanish and English dominance is too obvious. The only intruder is Porto from Portugal that won the title(Atlético, Sevilla, Chelsea, Manchester United).

It's always been about Bayern in the CL or no one else.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby PunkCapitalist » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:39 pm

Fénix wrote:
Awax wrote:Hoffenheim crashed out in the R32 of EL, Leverkusen a few minutes away from following them. Leipzig will probably get kicked out, so are Gladbach. That will leave Bayern and Dortmund (if they don't choke against Sevilla) in European Competitions... german football isn't doing so good.

Depends on the angle you are looking from. More or less this is good and typical German European season and campaign. Clubs in Europa League end their competitions in group stages and Round of 16.

In the CL 2-3 teams qualify every season in the Round of 16 and then only FC Bayern progress to the 1/4 finals. Last season was very special and 2 German clubs were semifinalists after 7 years.

Europa League should have been all this time the competition where German clubs whose name isn't FC Bayern chase semifinals and win EL titles every once in a while.

But if we take a look at the last 10 years, Spanish and English dominance is too obvious. The only intruder is Porto from Portugal that won the title(Atlético, Sevilla, Chelsea, Manchester United).

It's always been about Bayern in the CL or no one else.
You're exagerating. Not long ago (2014-2017 more or less), BuLi teams were competitive in Europe. Wolfsburg with KDB and the next season, Klopp and Tuchel's Dortmunds, Leverkusen under Schmidt, Gladbach under Favre. Hell, even Schalke once almost threw Madrid out of the CL (with a goal by Sané). There is a very very clear deterioration since. It is absolutely shameful that Leverkusen and Hoffenheim are losing against a Swiss and Norwegian sides. The English fans keep saying BULi is literal crap, and today there is no way we can say otherwise.

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Re: General German football thread

Postby Fénix » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:04 pm

But that's just one season wonder, flashes, mate. They can't repeat it every season, though.

Exaggerating or not, it's all how each of us set our own expectations from Bundesliga clubs. It can be exaggerating, but it also doesn't have to be. :wink:

Klopp's Dortmund was only 2 seasons great(2012/2013 and 2013/2014), 2 seasons before that(CL 2011/2012 and EL 2010/2011) were disaster, exit in the Hinrunde and 2014/2015 at least he reached the Round of 16 and lost against the finalist Juventus.

Wolfsburg was completely sold out after that 2014/2015 season. They looked fantastic, my hope for a competitive Bundesliga all these years, but after De Bruyne left, one more season when Draxler came was good against Real Madrid in the 1/4 finals and that's it. VW shut down the project.

Schalke are joke overall, 1-2 shiny moments in the history of the club(CL semifinal 2010/2011 vs the last shiny Man United), overall nothing special and Bundesliga campaigns for the last 20 years speak in favor of that.

Loserkusen under Robin Dutt and Roger Schmidt were a trash can to punch real hard. Their glory days ended in 2001/2002 season.

Gladbach for the first time this season managed to reach the CL knockout stage in their club's history. They can't more than this.

Everything else in the Europa League with an exception of Eintracht Frankfurt 2 years ago has been a total disgrace for the last 12 years from German clubs when Werder Bremen lost the final against Shakhtar Donjeck and HSV played the 1/2 final exactly against them.

German football can't put an extra attention if nobody else can win European cups. Europa League precisely is there for them, but they don't do shit. And Sevilla won 6 titles in 15-16 years.

Sevilla success >>> S04, Loserkusen, HSV, Gladbach, Hoffenheim, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart, Werder, Eintracht, Leipzig, BVB... This may be very rude and exaggerating, not trying to be malicious towards something I watched every Saturday and Sunday on German TV stations in the entire 2000's(ARD Sportschau, ZDF Sportstudio, DSF Doppelpass and Bundesliga Pur) but it's my opinion after 20 years of watching German football.

You have to win something in Europe and you can't near Bayern win almost anything in Germany except DFB-Pokal in few occasions. :roll:
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:09 pm

PunkCapitalist wrote:
Fénix wrote:
Awax wrote:Hoffenheim crashed out in the R32 of EL, Leverkusen a few minutes away from following them. Leipzig will probably get kicked out, so are Gladbach. That will leave Bayern and Dortmund (if they don't choke against Sevilla) in European Competitions... german football isn't doing so good.

Depends on the angle you are looking from. More or less this is good and typical German European season and campaign. Clubs in Europa League end their competitions in group stages and Round of 16.

In the CL 2-3 teams qualify every season in the Round of 16 and then only FC Bayern progress to the 1/4 finals. Last season was very special and 2 German clubs were semifinalists after 7 years.

Europa League should have been all this time the competition where German clubs whose name isn't FC Bayern chase semifinals and win EL titles every once in a while.

But if we take a look at the last 10 years, Spanish and English dominance is too obvious. The only intruder is Porto from Portugal that won the title(Atlético, Sevilla, Chelsea, Manchester United).

It's always been about Bayern in the CL or no one else.
You're exagerating. Not long ago (2014-2017 more or less), BuLi teams were competitive in Europe. Wolfsburg with KDB and the next season, Klopp and Tuchel's Dortmunds, Leverkusen under Schmidt, Gladbach under Favre. Hell, even Schalke once almost threw Madrid out of the CL (with a goal by Sané). There is a very very clear deterioration since. It is absolutely shameful that Leverkusen and Hoffenheim are losing against a Swiss and Norwegian sides. The English fans keep saying BULi is literal crap, and today there is no way we can say otherwise.

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It is... Doesn’t mean every team is crap though... (us, obviously...)
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