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General German football thread

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Re: General German football thread

Postby YlonenXabi » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:21 pm

I haven't rushed anything because I don't know the story

However his house has been raided by the police so we will soon know what's going on
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 11:30 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:I haven't rushed anything because I don't know the story

However his house has been raided by the police so we will soon know what's going on
I was not referring to you.
But I have learned to wait in such news...

These kind of allegations are on par with revenge porn...

I sincerely hope that C.M is innocent and if he is so it will be proven otherwise he is finished
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 12:41 am

Yeah, you wait when it doesn’t suit YOU... When it does calling what you do rushing would be an understatement...
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 6:44 am

#12 wrote:Yeah, you wait when it doesn’t suit YOU... When it does calling what you do rushing would be an understatement...
Like what exactly?
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:42 am

ramsej84 wrote:
#12 wrote:Yeah, you wait when it doesn’t suit YOU... When it does calling what you do rushing would be an understatement...
Like what exactly?


You’re kidding right?
You jump to conclusions EVERY **** TIME you get the chance to display your rampant xenophobia!
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:53 am

#12 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
#12 wrote:Yeah, you wait when it doesn’t suit YOU... When it does calling what you do rushing would be an understatement...
Like what exactly?


You’re kidding right?
You jump to conclusions EVERY **** TIME you get the chance to display your rampant xenophobia!


sure...
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Wed Sep 04, 2019 9:54 am

Yup... Or see the Sané thread... How you cannot see this yourself is beyond me...
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:33 pm

Fifa 11. Kimmich Kroos and M.Ter Stegen the only Germans to make it to the long list..
for the record only two FCB players are present; Kimmich and Lewa
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Re: General German football thread

Postby RedQueen » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:37 am

"Now, here, you see, it takes all the running you can do, to keep in the same place. If you want to get somewhere else, you must run at least twice as fast as that!" - Red Queen, Alice - Through the Looking-Glass
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:28 pm

Andi Brehme turns 59today...
Wow what a 29th bday present he had...
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Nov 19, 2019 8:58 pm

Saw,this last Sun in Tarxien MaltaImage

Apparently they are an non profit organization who help children or an academy or the sort
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Re: General German football thread

Postby IsiahRashad » Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:57 am

Moving our discussion from the Hakimi thread here.

Fénix wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote:
Firefox1234 wrote::cry: :cry:
Can't see tweet? Click here!
No one cares about Bayern anymore, I see.

First you must have a huge base outside of Germany that really cares about Bayern and then see potential targets joining Bayern. All I'm seeing all these years in new generation of players are Madrid and Barcelona fanboys and mercenaries who go to the Premier League, PSG and Juventus if they can't play in the mentioned 2 Spanish clubs.


I researched a little bit more about why is this happening in the recent years, and there I have some stats ready:

A report by UEFA, called "The European Club Footballing Landscape" is saying that despite the 50+1 rule, only of 3 of the 18 clubs were reporting profits for the financial years in the time period between 2016 and 2018 - Bayern, Dortmund and Leipzig. A large part of this is attributed to German club's stringent management of wage bills, with Bundesliga sides spending just 50 percent of their total revenue on wages, compared to 64 percent in the Premier League, 57 percent in Spain, 68 in Italy and 69 in France. In the TV deals, English clubs occupy 16 of the top 20 places in the broadcast revenues table.

The support remains an unusually domestic affair when compared to most major European clubs. Official club website traffic, one of UEFA's markers for the nature of support bases, reveals that Bayern and Dortmund's sites are only the 10th and 11th most visited of European clubs. Furthermore, 56 percent of Bayern's visitors are from Germany while the figure for BVB is 77 percent. That compares to 22 percent for Real Madrid's site from Spain and 21 percent of Manchester United's from England, so no suprises here.

Despite it's famously cheap tickets, Bundesliga fans appear to overpay in other ways. Germany has the second highest shirt prices in Europe, after Switzerland, with the average price of a replica jersey at €80. In the Premier League the figure is €59.
Congratulations, as we from the Balkans say.

In transfer terms, German clubs' net spend was only €10 million for the given period. That compares to €118 million for Italy, €111 million for France, an €8 million surplus for Spain and €772 million spend by English clubs.

But the thing that is lagging most right now is I think the youth development and international scouting. 14 years ago, Löw said that
"The national team has pointed the way tactically and from the playing side," he said. "These things now have to be unified right across all the youth team levels." Löw also wants to see the international scouting system strengthened. Whereas the German team has one chief scout, other nations had teams of experts observing international developments. [source]


And some other thing that comes to mind:
- No Champions League finalists after 2012-13;
- No Europa League finalists after 2008-09;
- Dropped from second to fourth place in UEFA rankings since 2017-18, managed to get the 3rd place last year;
- Bundesliga-based squad lost twice in 2018 World Cup group stage;
- Only 8 german players are in the Top 100 of Most valuable players;
- Only 1 german player is in the Top 100 of Most valuable players under 20!;
- Only 1 german player is in the Top 100 of Most valuable players under 19!;

I wonder how there are still *bllind* people who see the potential and are optimistic about something that doesn't exist. It's hard to argue against these types of facts, but most fans in Germany and bosses of the clubs seem to be so isolated from the outside world and afraid of change, that almost everything described above seems impossible.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby ramsej84 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:09 pm

TbH I don't care , I believe in what we have... the moment our tm becomes full of mercenaries and run by foreigners... I will stop supporting the tm.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby Fénix » Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:28 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:I researched a little bit more about why is this happening in the recent years, and there I have some stats ready:

Excellent analysis! Odlično! Svaka čast! :cheers:

And then you have these complete morons who are so delighted, happy, exuberant about the clubs and the league, being almost like cheap bitches to other countries, ein berühmter Bauernhof, Europas beste. :? :roll:

The execution isn't always perfect and the emotion is perhaps still too raw, but watching the emergence of a new talent is one of the few magical moments left in soccer. At a time when the sport is drowning in super teams, inconceivable fees and a drive for entertainment over all else, it's worth recognizing where you can reliably watch the next generation of stars. In European football, the Bundesliga is that place.

"We're sensitive when we hear the description 'developmental league,'" said Mainz sporting director Rouven Schroder. "People hear the word developmental and think 'inferior,' but we don't have to make ourselves small in front of the Premier League."

Schroder is right. To reduce the Bundesliga to a mere incubator means missing so much of what makes this league enjoyable, namely the power of the fans, the brilliant matchday atmosphere, and, of course, the stars. Marco Reus, Robert Lewandowski and Jadon Sancho are three of the most talented players in the world, but it's worth remembering the likes of Kevin de Bruyne, Roberto Firmino and Leroy Sane all shone brightly enough in the Bundesliga before earning their big-money moves to the Premier League. It seems odd that this ends up being a subplot in relation to its "developmental league" label.

Nevertheless, seven straight titles for Bayern Munich has created the perception of a one-team league. Considering Ligue 1 and Serie A are also leagues dominated by one team while the Premier League is a two-team race at the top, it is ironic that the Bundesliga is still the first division to be dismissed as lacking a competition problem. Perhaps it's because of the Bundesliga clubs' struggling form in Europe or their inability to keep up with the monstrous growth of Europe's elite sides. Yet to dismiss the Bundesliga would be to miss the point.

The DFL (German Football League) is keen to make the point and have the perfect slogan: "Football as it's meant to be." But what does that look like?The DFL's economic report this year shows that for the 14th successive season Germany's top two leagues increased their cumulative revenue. Last season the Bundesliga's revenue totaled $4.2b (€3.81b), almost double the figure from the 2011 season. The report also highlights the economic impact of German football, citing a record payment of taxes and duties to the state as well as having more than 55,000 people directly employed by clubs or their subsidiaries -- the most ever.

Compared to the Premier League, La Liga and Serie A, the DFL is the only league that manages data, production, content and sales internally. "We are the only ones who are able to develop, to produce and to distribute," Bundesliga CEO Christian Seifert said this year.

Perhaps unwittingly, the business sentiment also applies to the sport itself. Football should be about passion, creativity, development and community, and Germany is getting that balance right. In many ways, the Bundesliga is the college football of European soccer.

Player development it might seem counterintuitive, but Bayern's financial clout and dominance has actually helped the rest of the league, forcing clubs to think differently, scout further, dig deeper into their academies and speed up the revolving door of players. It has created a league of experimentation and unique identities. In the NCAA, Alabama and Auburn may be the biggest programs but their strength encourages other teams to be bold in response. Other teams give young players the chance to play top-flight, first-team football and, in turn, catch the eye of bigger clubs around Europe. Players may come and go in this league but the commitment to development and innovation stays the same.

"That's how we do it and that's how we must do it," Schroder explains. "When Jean-Philippe Gbamin transferred to Everton, our reaction is that the income we received allows us to restructure and rebuild our squad."

Selling Gbamin for a $22.5 million profit allowed Mainz to make smart decisions throughout the club. Intriguingly, the arrival of increased transfer income doesn't automatically result in an increase of outgoings: over the past 10 years, the club have promoted 26 players from both their second team and their U19 team. When investment has been made, it has mostly been made closer to player value: the club's net spend in the transfer market over the last three seasons is $33m. Freiburg managed $4m while Eintracht Frankfurt, aided by this summer, stand at $25m.

While the Bundesliga's transfer windows across the last three seasons have posted a loss of $269m -- Ligue 1 is the only one of Europe's top five leagues to have a profit across the last three windows -- this fee still pales in comparison to the Premier League's $2.92 billion deficit in the same period.

"The player trusts us by deciding, perhaps for less money, to join Mainz because they know the club develops players," Schroder said, speaking in general terms. "If I, as the club, make an approach saying sign for five years because then you can't get away when you play well, then I definitely won't sign players for Mainz. Because they know they're using Mainz as a chance to showcase their talents for perhaps the next step and we profit from that.

"We've found a wonderful niche for us as a club to develop. We've accompanied the player for that part of their life and brought them to the point where, someone like Jean-Philippe joins Everton or Abdou Diallo goes to Dortmund and now Paris. We're proud to be able to say 'he used to play for Mainz.'"

The Premier League's wealth has allowed itself to lean on the developmental efforts of Germany's top flight, for the most part. The self-proclaimed "best league in the world" expects instant impact, which means young players are left with fewer opportunities to develop in the first team. Granted, the Premier League has two more teams than the Bundesliga but average age of a current Premier League squad is close to 27 years old, noticeably higher than the Bundesliga's current average age of 25.5. It's also a noticeable jump from last season for the Premier League, where the average was 24.7 years.

Thus, the Bundesliga has become the preferred talent pool for Europe's leading clubs and those German clubs are richly rewarded for their work as finishing schools. Perhaps no team did better business than Frankfurt this summer. The club was rewarded with €100m for Sebastien Haller and Luka Jovic, two players who had only cost them around €7m each.

Of course, these are just two more recent examples of a trend that has been reality for a while. Roberto Firmino joined Hoffenheim for $4.5m before moving on to Liverpool for $46.7m. Newcastle's No.9 cost them $50m, but Joelinton arrived at Hoffenheim from Brazil for just $2.5m. Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang was bought by Borussia Dortmund for just under $15m and sold for more than $70m while Ousmane Dembele signed for Dortmund for less than $20m, before leaving for a jaw-dropping $142m.While there are legitimate concerns for Bundesliga clubs who follow this pattern -- sides that dare to dream in or about Europe one season are often left floundering mid table or worse the following year -- there's no denying that this model can and has worked. As Mainz's Schroder mentioned earlier, it's just about finding a balance.

"I think the fact that we give lots more young players a chance should be celebrated more. It's hugely important for us," Schroder said. "We have far more young players on the pitch and that's important. There's great work being done at youth level in England, just look at their youth teams, but they don't play."

Christian Pulisic's father, Mark, told Penn Live that they chose Dortmund because "Germany's a great country to develop talent." The Bundesliga was able to play a central role in making perhaps the most talented American soccer player of the modern generation great, and Weston McKennie, Josh Sargent and Tyler Adams have followed his path.

The coaching innovation

"We consciously chose a young head coach who knows his stuff and fits the club," said Schroder of 40-year-old Mainz head coach Sandro Schwarz, who also used to play for the club. "I think a lot of clubs see it the same way. I think it might be necessary for this change because we have so many talented Fussball-Lehrer

In Germany, it's much more common for managers get a chance to put their knowledge and valued youth football (often at the same club) experience into practice. In-house development of coaches has become a Bundesliga trend, though to reduce it to that would be to miss the quality of the coaches in question. Julian Nagelsmann (32) got his chance at Hoffenheim, the club where he'd been coaching at youth level. Work at that level is valued beyond the country, too: just look what it did for David Wagner (47), Daniel Farke (42) and Daniel Stendel (45), all of whom got bigger jobs elsewhere.The average ages of head coaches in the Premier League, La Liga and the Bundesliga may be around the same mark, roughly 48 or 49 years old, but the opportunities set the Bundesliga apart. Seven new head coaches with an average age of 43.8 were appointed for the 2019-20 season. Age really ain't anything but a number here.

At Mainz, it's not just age that is irrelevant. Everyone working at the club recognizes how important the job is, and appreciates that they too are there to make the players feel at home. This family approach echoes the strong community values that many German clubs feel is at the heart of their purpose.

"We give them warmth," Schroder says. "They have to have the feeling that someone understands them at the club. There is so, so much value in having someone at the club they know they can contact. That's so important, because they can all play football."

The fan experience with clubs fostering a real sense of community, players are given the chance not just to play but also to represent a vocal and proud community. They may not stay forever, but playing in Germany is impactful for all involved.

"I have seen a lot of great players come and go," says Kirstie, a Werder Bremen season ticket-holder. "Our situation is that we are financially stable but cannot pay abnormal amounts for players. Some players get signed or are on loan here and you know they're not gonna stay long. But I can very much enjoy them and their development while they are with us. Seeing Mesut Ozil leave was sad. Seeing the player he has become and knowing Werder had a part in that development makes me proud."

Kristell, a club member at Augsburg, feels the same way. "These talents are effectively our championships. To sell an Augsburg player to the Premier League because he grew up with us is far easier and will happen more often than it will be to win a title. And if he wins a title elsewhere, that's also kind of our achievement too."

While most people who spend one afternoon in Dortmund or Bremen will agree that Germany's top division is currently offering a football experience not drowning in sponsorships, halftime shows or a customer-rather-than-fan feeling, the concern is how much longer that will be the case.

The drive to retain players and be more competitive in Europe has sparked a nationwide discussion about changing some of the central aspects of the game in Germany, notably the 50+1 rule, a clause stating that a club must hold a majority of its own voting rights, ensuring the club's members retain overall control, thus protecting the club from the influence of external investors). Doing so would have a wide impact on the game, and would make German clubs vulnerable to the same fate that came for Bury and continues to threaten Bolton. Football fans in both countries are intimately engaged, but the difference in Germany is that that engagement is part of a symbiotic relationship.


Ticket prices would also be at threat. Club members at Wolfsburg can get a season ticket (standing) this season for as little as €100. For Bayern members, it's €145. Borussia Dortmund's waiting list for a season ticket was so popular that after reaching 50,000 applications, it was closed. As demand goes up, the Bundesliga has made sure to keep plenty of money in the pockets of regular match-going fans. That, and many other things, would all change if the 50+1 rule was removed.

The aforementioned concerns surrounding the Bundesliga will likely return as the new season bursts into life, but instead of lamenting these issues, perhaps it is time to simply appreciate what the Bundesliga has that makes it so unique. So many talented players develop into stars here. The league has dramatic moments -- witness Dortmund's 3-1 defeat to Union Berlin -- and entertaining games, like Leverkusen's opening day victory over Paderborn. It has surprise teams, smart coaches and remains an affordable and community-based league for fans.

"We don't need stars, we'd like to make some," says Schroder, with a smile.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/german-bund%20...%20youd-think


You reach your limits, you want more and go further but you can't because you stick to your dogmas that brought you here.
It points out as they are not interested in further growth and expansion, in the first line expanding the domestic quality and competitiveness and concentration of top players and later European expansion where Europa League is nowhere near their primary target to win.
I can interpret all red-marked statements and views from few corners, but none of them leads to further growth and competitiveness of their clubs in both Bundesliga and Europe and seeing the arrival of top international football stars or at least stay of the youngsters who are about to become top players in years to come in the Bundesliga.
They don't mind and I as a foreigner/Croat can accept that and live with that without a big deal regardless of my best wishes, dreams, passion, bla bla towards Bayern and the German league.
But then I think Bayern's season expectations should be decreased and adjusted according to the current reality thereby avoiding the unrest and frustrations within the club and fan population.
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Re: General German football thread

Postby #12 » Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:02 pm

ramsej84 wrote:TbH I don't care , I believe in what we have... the moment our tm becomes full of mercenaries and run by foreigners... I will stop supporting the tm.


You still are...
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