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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:26 pm

He was probably asked about Bayern.

It's really about status, we won't be considered a top club if we allow transfers to our biggest rival.

However this discussion is not necessary because we sold exactly one player to Bayern and that was Hummels. We had no choice about Gotze and Lewa left for free.

And another point is I doubt Bayern will be able to overbid other clubs for out stars like Sancho in 2 years. So its not even an issue.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Dumbledore7 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 2:27 pm

I agree with the notion, but I hope it means they're trying to incentivise players to stay in Dortmund, rather than just blocking Bayern transfers. It would've been problematic, for instance, if they had tried to keep Hummels against his will (as far as I know he had no desire to join other clubs than Bayern either). If this means they just want to avoid future Lewandowski-like situation, then I think it's great. It should also mean re-assessing their strategy on recruitment, e.g. avoiding players like Hummels and Goetze and getting more players like Reus. Hope the end result is they would sell fewer players in the future whether it's to Bayern or elsewhere in Europe.

I think there's opportunity (and need) in Europe for Dortmund to build their unique brand and be a low-key elite club like Atletico. To me this means getting under-the-radar players that other big-brand clubs in Europe won't consider at first sight, and making sure the football team is world class enough that there's not much *sporting* reason for them to try and join the European royalties - exactly like Atletico. They already have a strong core of players to build this on - Akanji, Diallo, Sancho, Dahoud, Alcacer can already / have to potential to make a difference in most other big clubs. Atletico also have a bunch of players that "feel" like they can take one more step-up to the Barcelonas and Bayerns of the world (Griezmann, Koke, Saul, Gimenez etc), but reality is they are keeping these players. Not long ago, Atletico were also selling fantastic players as a stepping stone club.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:17 pm

IsiahRashad wrote:
MUTU wrote:
IsiahRashad wrote: Can't see tweet? Click here!

Nice.

Nice what? Why single out Bayern from a selling club? Are they literally saying that if we outbid a foreign club for their player, they would sell to the foreign club and miss out on a higher return just so as not to sell to Bayern? How ridiculous is that? How about trying to hold on to their players rather than sell at the first opportunity to anyone who waves money at them?


I don't care how ridiculous is. I'm SICK with all the "BUYern taking the best players from BVB talk", even if I know it's not true, and this is the type of talk from people who don't know much about the Bundesliga. I want a transfer policy between us like Pool/United - the last transfer between the clubs is from 1964. Or like Real/Barca -only two players have directly transferred from Real Madrid to Barcelona: Lucien Muller and Luis Enrique.

Yes, I also want from them to hold their best players. The best thing for the Bundesliga is to have super strong Bayern & Dortmund. The other clubs are sadly, still far away. 50+1.

Well that's a good point, but they want to do it for themselves and not for us. I was talking about it from their aspect.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:25 pm

Borusse wrote:If Bayern wants to sign a player from BVB then according to them it's their best option right? Or is Bayern buying from BVB because they want to weaken us? Let's assume it's the former and they're doing it to get the best they can and it's not about crushing the rival. So yes, if we sell to someone else Bayern probably won't get "even better".

Not necessarily. Let's say we have a budget of €90m to get a winger, and we try to get Sancho. Real Madrid offer €85m for him, and you accept. We offer €90m for him but you don't accept our bid so as not to strengthen us. Then we might decide to sell Wagner and buy Eden Hazard for €110m instead. The second choice is not necessarily weaker in quality, he could be higher in quality and also price which would make him less feasible. Or higher in quality but also older (like Hazard).

Borusse wrote:And you completely ignored my second argument which is as important if not more. If we want to aspire to be your long-term rivals then we just can't be giving you our best players whenever you come knocking at the door. That's very simple to understand, no?

I thought I answered that, but maybe I was a bit too ambiguous so let me be more specific. You don't become our long-term rivals by avoiding giving ***us*** your best players whenever we come knocking at the door, you become our long-term rivals by avoiding giving ANYONE your best players whenever they come knocking at the door. If you're still selling your Aubameyangs, your Dembeles, your Sahins, your Kagawas, your Mkhitaryans, your Guendogans with or without our intervention, you're still not going to rival us in the long-term.

Whenever a player has enough quality to play an important role in Bayern's squad, you almost always sell him, and not necessarily to Bayern. If Sancho keeps on improving at his current rate, he'll have signed a Premier League contract while still in his teens. I'm very honest when I say that it hurts me a lot when good BVB players (actually, good Bundesliga players in general) sign with a foreign club.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Hardrade » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:23 pm

Borusse wrote:He was probably asked about Bayern.

It's really about status, we won't be considered a top club if we allow transfers to our biggest rival.

However this discussion is not necessary because we sold exactly one player to Bayern and that was Hummels. We had no choice about Gotze and Lewa left for free.

And another point is I doubt Bayern will be able to overbid other clubs for out stars like Sancho in 2 years. So its not even an issue.
,

BVB won’t be considered a top club if they sell out their best assets period. It doesn’t really matter where they went, what matters is that with every departure BVB gets weaker. Being milked by PL clubs is hardly better than selling domestically, at least the quality remains in Germany. And in good hands :D
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:10 pm

Of course the ultimate goal is not to sell stars to anyone. BUT it's not up to us unfortunately, not now. We're not big enough to keep the players and we can't force someone to sign an extension. It's a very long process.

Anyway this whole "selling to Bayern" thing is exaggerated, we only sold Hummels out of our own will and it was because of gentelmen's agreement between the player and the club, it was a uniqe situation. Gotze had a buy-out clause and Lewandowski was a free agent. What Watzke is really saying is that now we won't sell to Bayern because there are no buy-out clauses anymore and there is always going to be a higher bidder for Dortmund's rising stars in the future. You have little chance of competing with Real or PSG or Premier League money for the biggest names, Sancho is going to be sold in 2 or 3 years for 100+ millions easily. And besides him there isn't really a player Bayern would aim for. So it's really a discussion about something that's just probably not going to happen anyway, at least in the next 3-4 years.
Last edited by Borusse on Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:12 pm

Borusse wrote:Of course the ultimate goal is not to sell stars to anyone.

Anyway this whole "selling to Bayern" thing is exaggerated, we only sold Hummels out of our own will and it was because of gentelmen's agreement between the player and the club, it was a uniqe situation. Gotze had a buy-out clause and Lewandowski was a free agent. What Watzke is really saying is that now we won't sell to Bayern because there are no buy-out clauses anymore and there is always going to be a higher bidder for Dortmund's rising stars in the future. You have little chance of competing with Real or PSG or Premier League money for the biggest names, Sancho is going to be sold in 2 or 3 years for 100+ millions easily. And besides him there isn't really a player Bayern would aim for. So it's really a discussion about something that's just probably not going to happen anyway.

Bayern still have a higher revenue than most PL clubs and PSG.

Anyway, guess we'll have to get BVB players the Lewandowski way in future then 8)
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:16 pm

Prove me wrong and buy one world star in today's market, then I'll start believing you're ready to compete for the biggest names and put 100+ millions on the table. It will be really hard because even if you have the money, you're a Bundesliga club and it's just not such an attractive league. PSG gives ridiculous money to their players so they agree to play in Ligue1, are you ready to do the same? I'm not sure. That never was your way of operating.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:18 pm

MUTU wrote:
Borusse wrote:Of course the ultimate goal is not to sell stars to anyone.

Anyway this whole "selling to Bayern" thing is exaggerated, we only sold Hummels out of our own will and it was because of gentelmen's agreement between the player and the club, it was a uniqe situation. Gotze had a buy-out clause and Lewandowski was a free agent. What Watzke is really saying is that now we won't sell to Bayern because there are no buy-out clauses anymore and there is always going to be a higher bidder for Dortmund's rising stars in the future. You have little chance of competing with Real or PSG or Premier League money for the biggest names, Sancho is going to be sold in 2 or 3 years for 100+ millions easily. And besides him there isn't really a player Bayern would aim for. So it's really a discussion about something that's just probably not going to happen anyway.

Bayern still have a higher revenue than most PL clubs and PSG.

Anyway, guess we'll have to get BVB players the Lewandowski way in future then 8)


Yeah, I can see that as the only realistic option - convince the player to join Bayern and ignore all the other clubs and then BVB we'll probably make him stay till the end of the contract or we will give up and sell. However I'm not seeing a player you would even want from Dortmund, our stars are either too old to move (Reus, Witsel) or have long term contracts or are going to be playing for Barca/Real/PL giants in a few years. That's the way it goes nowadays.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:35 pm

Borusse wrote:Prove me wrong and buy one world star in today's market, then I'll start believing you're ready to compete for the biggest names and put 100+ millions on the table. It will be really hard because even if you have the money, you're a Bundesliga club and it's just not such an attractive league. PSG gives ridiculous money to their players so they agree to play in Ligue1, are you ready to do the same? I'm not sure. That never was your way of operating.

I would argue that Bayern have never bought a world star unless he was either German or else already playing in the Bundesliga, let alone in today's market. So I don't see how anything will change. We'll still be able to attract good Bundesliga players, case in point Gnabry, Goretzka, Pavard and maybe soon Werner.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby America USA » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:47 am

Witsel and Sancho have been terrific signings for Dortmund. It is a shame that that Moroccan LB will return to Real Madrid as soon as he develops a bit more.

Bayern need to forget about catching up to BvB now. Just keep winning our games and hope for the best.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby IsiahRashad » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:56 am

America USA wrote:Witsel and Sancho have been terrific signings for Dortmund. It is a shame that that Moroccan LB will return to Real Madrid as soon as he develops a bit more.

Bayern need to forget about catching up to BvB now. Just keep winning our games and hope for the best.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:59 am

Still nothing is certain, it will depend on the player and how much Real will want him back. But we're not in an easy negotiating position, that's for sure.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby MUTU » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:33 am

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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Borusse » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:51 am

Strange news, I don't think it's true. I'm pretty sure the priority is Thorgan Hazard and I don't see why we would buy another winger.
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