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Borussia Dortmund

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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:33 pm

Arnold is mediocre.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby America USA » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:35 pm

Ok Dahoud is the next Kroos :wink:

EDIT: Seriously though, seems like Users on this forum have unrealistic and unreasonably high expectations. Arnold’s quality doesn’t show through because he is playing for a poor team and has to do everything by himself in midfield. No way he stays at Wolfsburg if they go down.
Last edited by America USA on Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 7:38 pm

Dahoud's box-to-box while Kroos is a regista. Not similar enough to even draw a joke comparison.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby America USA » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:25 pm

Can someone bring in some stats or figures for Arnold vs Dahoud?

Manchu, Ylonen or Isiah?
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:28 pm

Dahoud and Arnold are completely different players

Dahoud is a very soft player more suited to play in the final third while Arnold has reinvented himself as a very good CM who can be a leader on the pitch, something that Dortmund is clearly lacking at the moment. All their players are soulless and they need a leader to kick their asses when they are playing poorly

Of course Arnold is not a world class CM, but he falls in the category of realistic Dortmund transfers and he surely has potential to become a very good CM.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:33 pm

Dumbledore7 wrote:Dahoud's box-to-box while Kroos is a regista. Not similar enough to even draw a joke comparison.


Dahoud is a nowhere to nowhere. Creative but lethargic player. He can play a couple of nice through balls in the game and then he is gone till next weekend.

Dahoud, Goetze, Pulisic, Castro, Philipp, Guerreiro, Sahin, Kagawa.... They are all good but soft players. They really need someone like Sebastian Kehl
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:47 pm

YlonenXabi wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Dahoud's box-to-box while Kroos is a regista. Not similar enough to even draw a joke comparison.


Dahoud is a nowhere to nowhere. Creative but lethargic player. He can play a couple of nice through balls in the game and then he is gone till next weekend.

Dahoud, Goetze, Pulisic, Castro, Philipp, Guerreiro, Sahin, Kagawa.... They are all good but soft players. They really need someone like Sebastian Kehl

Not the case when he played alongside a compatible, tempo-conducting partner in Xhaka. He had freedom to move and showed signs of a complete midfielder. He was very good at dropping deep, funnelling plays and cutting down passing options, adding enough defensively without actually chasing the ball down.

The lack of competent coaching in Dortmund isn't helping either. I disagree with Castro being soft as he was a mainstay on Tuchel's great midfield, fulfilling the complete midfielder role to glue up Weigl and Kagawa. I see Dahoud growing into that type of player with a bit more attacking flair.

I don't see what Arnold adds. Other than some long shots, his skillset's awfully limited. Mentality, "hardness" or whatever you want to call it doesn't really cut it. Even if you do want someone like a Kehl in there, that's not Arnold.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:54 pm

Well, Germany won the U21 tournament last summer with Max Arnold as team leader and Dahoud warming the bench.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Dumbledore7 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:10 pm

Yeah, despite being 22 he was deemed only good enough for the U21 and wasn’t with the big boys in the Confed Cup. You can slice and twist that sort of point in different ways.

Come on, wasn’t expecting such a snappy argument from you. If you’d like, then please add to the discussion with what Arnold can do.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby America USA » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:29 pm

From whatever I saw of that U21 competition. Arnold, Philipp, Toljan, Selke, Stark, Kemp and Meyer were the guys who stood out. I think Dahoud started in the Italy game (Bernardeschi scored the winner for the Italians) and he was awful. Lost the ball too many times. Even for Dortmund I see him losing the ball too many times.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby YlonenXabi » Sun Mar 25, 2018 11:57 pm

Max Arnold once was a young promising skilled attacking midfielder with poor work rate, but that has changed in the last couple of seasons as he has bulked up and stablished himself as a very good CM

What can Arnold add up?


While Dahoud seems only good in creating football (well, not even that has been the case this year) Arnold is a much more balanced player and can do the dirty job too. He can read the game very well, something very important if you want to succeed as CM. Also I see Arnold as a true leader and a warrior while Dahoud is pretty much kind of a shy player

Long range shots and set piece deliveries are some of his other assets


Not saying that Arnold is the new Xabi Alonso, but he is talented and likely to become a very good player




I think Dortmund has lots of gifted players, but no one in midfield to control the tempo of the game.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby Dumbledore7 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:21 am

Fair enough. On your very last point, that would be Weigl.
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby PunkCapitalist » Mon Mar 26, 2018 12:49 am

Dumbledore7 wrote:
YlonenXabi wrote:
Dumbledore7 wrote:Dahoud's box-to-box while Kroos is a regista. Not similar enough to even draw a joke comparison.


Dahoud is a nowhere to nowhere. Creative but lethargic player. He can play a couple of nice through balls in the game and then he is gone till next weekend.

Dahoud, Goetze, Pulisic, Castro, Philipp, Guerreiro, Sahin, Kagawa.... They are all good but soft players. They really need someone like Sebastian Kehl

Not the case when he played alongside a compatible, tempo-conducting partner in Xhaka. He had freedom to move and showed signs of a complete midfielder. He was very good at dropping deep, funnelling plays and cutting down passing options, adding enough defensively without actually chasing the ball down.

The lack of competent coaching in Dortmund isn't helping either. I disagree with Castro being soft as he was a mainstay on Tuchel's great midfield, fulfilling the complete midfielder role to glue up Weigl and Kagawa. I see Dahoud growing into that type of player with a bit more attacking flair.

I don't see what Arnold adds. Other than some long shots, his skillset's awfully limited. Mentality, "hardness" or whatever you want to call it doesn't really cut it. Even if you do want someone like a Kehl in there, that's not Arnold.
Exactly. Dahoud is similar to Gündogan. BVB was not lacking 'power" or whatever when he was around. It's a matter of coaching and tactics, not so much players (DESPITE, them loosing a lot of quality lately).

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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby YlonenXabi » Mon Mar 26, 2018 11:50 am

What I've seen this year under Bosz and Stoeger is a team with enough quality in the final third to break any defense, but a team that can easily fall apart with amateurish mistakes regardless of how weak the opposition is.

Who is the leader in this team? I see no personality whatsoever and whenever things start to look bad it's difficult for them to get back on track

Midfield has been really poor throughout the year. Both games against RB Salzburg were a disgrace, the team was soulless. Same thing happened against Atalanta, but they were lucky that time. I would like to see someone like Arnold to control the tempo of the game, make a tactical foul to prevent a counter when needed. Speak to the referee or shout at the team whenever they are wandering around.

Being current Germany U21 European Champion and team leader surely means something
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Re: Borussia Dortmund

Postby IsiahRashad » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:11 pm

Opinion: Borussia Dortmund have a long list of problems and no quick fix [source]
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