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Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:53 am

FCBayernMunchen wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:
dmenace wrote:Link to check out the Arena 24/7, also nice to look back in time...
http://www.foto-webcam.eu/webcam/freimann/

I went back to 25.05.20138-)
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So did I. And also 19.05.2012 :(

I cancelled that day from my hist books:evil:

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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Ottomeister13 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:48 am

I am wondering, anyone ever done the Arena Tour? Next time i am in Munich i want to do this, but i am wondering what the best package is? Just the arena tour or the Arena/Erlebniswelt combi or the VIP thing? ( though it would be nice to be almost on the pitch ofcourse ) and is it allowed to take pics from lets say the team cabin and in the erlebniswelt?
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby ramsej84 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:14 am

I visited almost 4 yrs ago therefore the museum was not there yet. I remember taking the arena tour (in English@13:00) at that time was only available @ 13:00 daily) I think it was 20.00€.
I think it is worth taking the full package,being in touching distance from the pitch,entering the dressing rooms, press conf room etc is an unforgettable experience. Make sure that you insist to check in our dr rooms cause the tour leader might ask in which won you would like to visit... Either ours or that of the light blue donkeys'8-)
Yes you can take photos anywhere.
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby craigpatik » Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:30 am

I attended the Stuttgart match last week. In the end I decided I didn't need to do a stadium tour. I've done other big, new stadium tours and after a while they blend together, plus I'd read many reviews saying Allianz is almost more interesting from the outside. And of course I'd get some nice views of the field during the game :)

So I only did the Erlebniswelt (museum). For the price, I think it's worth doing once for Bayern fans. Skip the optional €3 audio guide — it's a bit drawn out and all of the items have written descriptions in English.

After the museum you can go outside or stay inside at the beer hall or one of the cafes. I wasn't sure if I could exit the turnstiles and re-enter (i.e. to get some more photos of the arena and fans) so I stayed inside and enjoyed a couple Paulaner's before wandering down to the seats. Security/ushers at the seats are not strict like in the U.S. so you can walk around and take photos of the stadium/crowd from various places, no matter where your seats are located.

Note that you can only purchase Erlebniswelt tickets online when you are physically in Germany (unless you are tech savvy enough to use a German proxy from your home country). This is annoying, however the match day tickets had not sold out so I'm not sure it's really necessary to purchase them in advance (buying them when you arrive in Munich/Germany should be sufficient — but note that you will need to print them on actual paper, you can't just show them the ticket on your phone).
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Ottomeister13 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:46 am

1860 rooms only to take a leak in everyone's locker :P
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby dmenace » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:17 pm

Did the tour and erlebniswelt last year Februari and only the erlebniswelt this year . The combi is nice to do and you can take pictures everywhere, though the Arena is a bit of a cool place when there is no game sceduled it is interesting to see everything that's normaly behind closed doors..

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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Ottomeister13 » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:20 pm

Awesome, then thats what i am going to do, the combi one i think. VIP has some nice things to but still..
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Bayernbazi » Thu Oct 16, 2014 3:23 pm

craigpatik wrote:Note that you can only purchase Erlebniswelt tickets online when you are physically in Germany (unless you are tech savvy enough to use a German proxy from your home country).


I took the Erlebniswelt tour last May on the last home match against Stuttgart and I booked the tickets from outside Germany without using any proxies. If I remember correctly, the last entrance when there are 15:30 home matches is at around 12:20, otherwise you can do it after the match.
You need to choose your time when pre-booking the ticket, but if for some reason you miss the slot like I did because of the amount of people travelling to the stadium during the day, they were very flexible to change the time on my tickets.
I hope you enjoy it.
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Re: Sv: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Argeta » Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:43 am

Tedesco wrote:I just wish it was bigger... Seriously, I think if the Arena had 150.000 seats it would still be sold out every single match.

I think so too, but it would result in higher ticket prices from the beginning. If we would keep these cheap prices there's nothing stopping the AA from being full each game!
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Ottomeister13 » Sun Oct 26, 2014 1:29 pm

Why would the ticket prices be higher if they really had 150000 seats? Dont see a need for that tbh..
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Bazi » Sun Oct 26, 2014 2:02 pm

Ottomeister13 wrote:Why would the ticket prices be higher if they really had 150000 seats? Dont see a need for that tbh..


It's because you don't take structural engineering into account. I'm not going into the details of the different price plateaus when building a new stadium, but why do you think Real Madrid and Barcelona opted for a renovation of their old stadiums instead of building a new 80-100k seater? Why did two of the richest and best run European clubs like Arsenal and Bayern only build 60/66k seater stadium? The simple explanation is that the bigger the stadium, the more expensive the construction costs of every additional seat becomes.

Consequently the club would have to significantly increase ticket prices to be able to afford the construction of a 80-100k seater stadium. However the seats which are the most expensive to construct ironically make the least revenue, because you're further away from the pitch. It simply doesn't make sense from a business point of view to build a new stadium which has more than 60-70k seats.
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby MUTU » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:22 am

Actually the reason Bayern's stadium wasn't bigger is that 1860 wanted it smaller. But don't let this take away what you said which is very valid.
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby ramsej84 » Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:47 am

Bazi wrote:
Ottomeister13 wrote:Why would the ticket prices be higher if they really had 150000 seats? Dont see a need for that tbh..


It's because you don't take structural engineering into account. I'm not going into the details of the different price plateaus when building a new stadium, but why do you think Real Madrid and Barcelona opted for a renovation of their old stadiums instead of building a new 80-100k seater? Why did two of the richest and best run European clubs like Arsenal and Bayern only build 60/66k seater stadium? The simple explanation is that the bigger the stadium, the more expensive the construction costs of every additional seat becomes.

Consequently the club would have to significantly increase ticket prices to be able to afford the construction of a 80-100k seater stadium. However the seats which are the most expensive to construct ironically make the least revenue, because you're further away from the pitch. It simply doesn't make sense from a business point of view to build a new stadium which has more than 60-70k seats.

And also to generate a bigger and constant demand for tickets...

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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby tflags » Sat Nov 01, 2014 11:32 am

Bazi wrote:but why do you think Real Madrid and Barcelona opted for a renovation of their old stadiums instead of building a new 80-100k seater?


Hate to disagree here but you are not making much of a sense with all due respect. Bayern's trying to tuckle in as many seats as they can as we have recently seen and the reason why Bayern didn't build a Maracaná back in 2005 was mainly because the 350 million loan (which you have provided the best info on how it was paid out) was already staggering enough at the time. If they had the chance recently to go for a 90k seater they would gladly close their eyes and sign whatever is put in front. Fact of the matter is Bayern staff have personally confirmed they get, still today, huge complaints as to their constant sold out seat events, lack of ticket availability and on top of this the Allianz y full of VIP boxes which get the most hatred from the fans.

Back to the Spanish argument the reason why Real Madrid and Barcelona will renovate instead of build new stadiums is quite simple. Both the Bernabau and the Camp Nou are located inside the city and on the second case that's one f*cking prime location if you ask me. The city would have had to invest more than they can afford to build new infrastructure to move people to the stadium via mass transit. Cost/benefit did not make sense and as the German design firm proved on Madrid's case, they can re-build that shitty shopping mall next to their stadium into a mass traffic state of the art shopping center.

The Camp Nou on the other hand is surrounded by secondary annexes such as their museum and their secondary-sports stadiums which will make the investment quite unaffordable on an arena which - by the way - is already at 100k seat capacity; give or take a few seats.
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Re: Our Stadium : The Allianz Arena

Postby Bazi » Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:54 pm

tflags wrote:
Bazi wrote:but why do you think Real Madrid and Barcelona opted for a renovation of their old stadiums instead of building a new 80-100k seater?


Hate to disagree here but you are not making much of a sense with all due respect. Bayern's trying to tuckle in as many seats as they can as we have recently seen and the reason why Bayern didn't build a Maracaná back in 2005 was mainly because the 350 million loan (which you have provided the best info on how it was paid out) was already staggering enough at the time. If they had the chance recently to go for a 90k seater they would gladly close their eyes and sign whatever is put in front. Fact of the matter is Bayern staff have personally confirmed they get, still today, huge complaints as to their constant sold out seat events, lack of ticket availability and on top of this the Allianz y full of VIP boxes which get the most hatred from the fans.

Back to the Spanish argument the reason why Real Madrid and Barcelona will renovate instead of building new stadiums is quite simple. Both the Bernabau and the Camp Nou are located inside the city and on the second case that's one f*cking prime location if you ask me. The city would have had to invest more than they can afford to build new infrastructure to move the people to the stadium via mass transit. Cost/benefit did not make sense and as the German design firm proved on Madrid's case, they can re-build that shitty shopping mall next to their stadium into a mass traffic state of the art shopping center.

The Camp Nou on the other hand is surrounded by secondary annexes such as their museum and the other sports stadiums which will make the investment quite unaffordable on an arena which - by the way - is already at 100k seat capacity; give or take a few seats.


I don't understand how your post invalidates what I said. It's true, Uli Hoeneß admitted that nobody would have given Bayern and 1860 a bigger loan than for the construction of a € 346M stadium. He also hinted at a possibly slightly larger audience had the situation been different, but as far as we know that could have simply been a jab at 1860's poor finances at the time. However the very same Uli Hoeneß also said on multiple occasions that he thinks the Allianz Arena has the perfect capacity for Bayern München, because he prefers a sold out house with high ticket demand over the alternative. The very same Uli Hoeneß who looked sick and afraid when he announced at the AGM (was it in 06?) that Bayern München took over 100% of the Allianz Arena and 1860 München's liabilities for the stadium loan. The fact that we converted Fifa's press areas, which were required during the WC 2006, and a no longer needed police safety zone on the third deck into seats doesn't contradict that point. We obviously want to use the existing space in the Allianz Arena efficiently. However the only source who spoke about Bayern's plans to build a 100k stadium was the infamous Franz Beckenbauer who is widely known for talking and overexeggerating too much. To the best of my knowledge neither Hoeneß nor Rummenigge ever took a stadium that big into consideration. I also doubt it is dispuutable that increasing the capacity by an additional 20k from let's say the initial 66k to 86k, would have been a lot more expensive then increasing the stadium capacity from 46k to 66k. Otherwise the construction costs of stadiums would develop linear, but they don't. I stand by the point that it made no sense from a business point of view, even if Bayern München would have been able to afford it at the time. Those additional seats are the most expensive and ironically also the seats which produce the least match-day revenue per seat, because of the distance to the pitch.

Barcelona's and Real Madrid's decision to renovate both had also to do with the location, but why do you think almost nobody outside the strongly subsidized US market is building stadiums significantly bigger than 60-70k seaters? Just look at the costs of the new Wembley Stadium with 90k seats, last the Guardian reported the total costs were beyond € 1,1 billion and the bigger US stadiums all cost far more than the modern 60-70k. seaters. Why was Barcelona's counter proposal to the renovation significantly smaller than the current Camp Nou? The immense costs of constructing a modern stadium with a 100k capacity obviously was one of the main reasons. A couple of years ago Munich based TZ asked a structural engineer about the potential to build the Allianz Arena bigger or increase the current capacity later on. He explained in great detail what had to be done to increase the Allianz Arena's capacity by the amount of 20k (with a fourth deck) and the infrastructural costs on top of the construction costs would have been astronomical (estimate € 100-150M at the time + infrastructural costs).

So in theory, if the bank's limit would not have made a difference, do you really think a sound business man like Hoeneß, who always insisted that ticket prices should be affordable for every fan, would have opted for that option? Or back to the original point,do you think it would have been possible without increasing the ticket prickes considerably? In my conclusion the limtations of Bayern's creditworthiness was one major aspect why the Allianz Arena was build for an initial capacity of 66k, the necessities of structurual engineering which would lead to exponentially increasing costs of constructing a new state-of-the-art stadium with a capacity of 90-100k were another one. Then there were also other matters like the underwhelming average attendance of the Olympia Stadium days and the restrictions of the City of Munich authorities and Munich's public transportation company. The latter already rebelled against our most recently planned increase from 70k to 75k, no way in hell they would have agreed to a 100k stadium considering how long it took us to even get into the testing phase of our increased stadium attendance against ZSKA Moscow and SC Freiburg in mid-December, but I digress.

I think we can all agree that a lot of thought has to go into such a largescale stadium project and I'm quite happy with the decision-making of our officials.
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