FC Bayern Forum

by **JANCKER** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:44 pm

Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist?

Exactly, a belief.

harry-muc · by **harry-muc** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:15 pm

JANCKER wrote:Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist? Exactly, a belief.

if YOU claim something exists, YOU have to bring the evidence. thats the way it works. :coffee:

MUTU · by **MUTU** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:20 pm

harry-muc wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist? Exactly, a belief.

if YOU claim something exists, YOU have to bring the evidence. thats the way it works.

The evidence lies in a probability calculation that life would have been created on Earth the way it is following the big bang. The probability is so extremely low that it is virtually impossible. It is therefore extremely beyond reasonable doubt that a form of higher entity exists/existed.

by **JANCKER** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:25 pm

harry-muc wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist? Exactly, a belief.

if YOU claim something exists, YOU have to bring the evidence. thats the way it works.

You bring the evidence that he doesn't exist and I stop believing. That's the way it works.

Jorge · by **Jorge** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:34 pm

MUTU wrote: It is therefore extremely beyond reasonable doubt that a form of higher entity exists/existed.

That higher entity is God for religious people and it is nature for non religious people. It is the same thing, we can argue one way or the other but it will not change what it is. One group will not be able to convince the other precisely based on reasonable doubt from both sides.

#12 · by **#12** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:27 pm

MUTU wrote:
harry-muc wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist? Exactly, a belief.

if YOU claim something exists, YOU have to bring the evidence. thats the way it works.
The evidence lies in a probability calculation that life would have been created on Earth the way it is following the big bang. The probability is so extremely low that it is virtually impossible. It is therefore extremely beyond reasonable doubt that a form of higher entity exists/existed.

Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely stunning and insane, how life works, how small we are, etc...
BUT: Our species and it's limited tech alone knows of a four digit number of planets highly likely to carry life alone - it's not that improbable

JANCKER wrote:
harry-muc wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist? Exactly, a belief.

if YOU claim something exists, YOU have to bring the evidence. thats the way it works.

You bring the evidence that he doesn't exist and I stop believing. That's the way it works.

Fine by me - but until then, stop imposing your shit on others, will you?!

PunkCapitalist · by **PunkCapitalist** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:33 pm

JANCKER wrote:Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist? Exactly, a belief.

Where is the evidence to prove that Superman does not exist? Your statement is a misunderstanding of how things work. You don't (you can't) prove the non-existence of things, you assume they don't until you have prove they do. If I were to truly ask you, it would be literally impossible for you to provide prove that Superman doesn't exist.

Even if we accept Mutu's "evidence" (it is not really exactly evidence), then we can still ask; why *your* god? For all we know, the universe may have been created by Odin, Pachamama or even the Flying Spaghetti Monster. In fact, I'm going to argue that Christianity's whole morality is kinda fucked up. I mean, what kind of all-powerful all-benevolent god would require his son to suffer through torture just to forgive some random "original sin"? Why not just, you know... Forgive? Then there are the horrible diseases some children have to endure, what kind of all-powerful all-benevolent god would allow that??? On the basis of those incoherences, I find it very unlikely that the Christian god would exist, even if there were some god.

Regardless of these discussions, which are essentially fruitless almost by nature, what truly matters when a particular religious group seeks to impose their own morals and/or viewpoints on the whole of society. This was, incidentally the original discussion for this thread. Bayern, as an organization, chooses to be LGBT-friendly. Why do conservatives feel they have some kind of right over this private company to limit what it can or can't support? Even worse; why do conservatives feel they have an ownership right over the concept of marriage (which predates Christianity, btw)?

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ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:15 pm

let me just say this... each birth is a miracle ... anyways those with liberal believes may argue that a fetus is just a mass of cells and not a human being...

FCBayernMunchen · by **FCBayernMunchen** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:15 pm

MUTU wrote:The evidence lies in a probability calculation that life would have been created on Earth the way it is following the big bang. The probability is so extremely low that it is virtually impossible. It is therefore extremely beyond reasonable doubt that a form of higher entity exists/existed.

And yet what I can't seem to understand is why Christians tend to use this argument to prove their belief is right. I mean, all this shows is that there is some form of intelligent design, but nothing to suggest it's the God of the Bible.

As I said in an earlier post I dislike both religious apologists and atheist ones simply because I think it's impossible to hold to one view with absolute certainty in this case. We can never quite know. I also disagree with both. Your argument is one of several reasons why I do believe there's some sort of intelligent design and maybe a higher entity, but knowledge and experience suggests to me that the Abrahamic God is not that entity. Nor does Hinduism make much sense to me. I'm not very familiar with Buddhism, but I'd daresay I'd find problems with it too.

harry-muc · by **harry-muc** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:17 pm

MUTU wrote:
harry-muc wrote:
JANCKER wrote:Where is the evidence that he doesn't exist? Exactly, a belief.

if YOU claim something exists, YOU have to bring the evidence. thats the way it works.
The evidence lies in a probability calculation that life would have been created on Earth the way it is following the big bang. The probability is so extremely low that it is virtually impossible. It is therefore extremely beyond reasonable doubt that a form of higher entity exists/existed.

there is a estimated number of 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars in the observable universe, each of which can have numerous planets...
if you would take 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys and let them randomly type on a typewriter, one of them would have written the bible word for word.

FCBayernMunchen · by **FCBayernMunchen** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:19 pm

#12 wrote:Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely stunning and insane, how life works, how small we are, etc...
BUT: Our species and it's limited tech alone knows of a four digit number of planets highly likely to carry life alone - it's not that improbable

I might be saying something scientifically stupid here (while science does interest me a lot, I can't claim a high level of knowledge in it), but if the chances of having the right combination of elements to support life is as rare as MUTU and many, many others claim, then the fact that there are so many other planets with similar combinations kind of increases the probability of a higher entity.

FCBayernMunchen · by **FCBayernMunchen** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:20 pm

harry-muc wrote:if you would take 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 monkeys and let them randomly type on a typewriter, one of them would have written the bible word for word.

The real question is why God would allow so many other human writers to write better works than his own. :mrgreen:

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:28 pm

I think we'd rather lock this thread cause it is getting ridiculously profane and insulting...

nm462272 · by **nm462272** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:29 pm

ramsej84 wrote:I think we'd rather lock this thread cause it is getting ridiculously profane and insulting...

While I think it's gotten a bit off-topic, I don't think what anyone said is insulting, certainly not profane... rather, it's interesting to hear the different perspectives

ramsej84 · by **ramsej84** » Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:31 pm

nm462272 wrote:
ramsej84 wrote:I think we'd rather lock this thread cause it is getting ridiculously profane and insulting...

While I think it's gotten a bit off-topic, I don't think what anyone said is insulting, certainly not profane... rather, it's interesting to hear the different perspectives

yes I found some of the post insulting...

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